How and why we keep the Sabbath holy...

[EastCoastRemnant]

Don't ya hate it when people come in the forum, ask some questions and then decide to not come back to respond to the answers given?

It's all good though, cause my sword is a little sharper and my armour a little more fortified....

 

[stinsonmarri]

ChrisCarol:​

You stated: No. He thru His servant Paul teach that all days are the same: Romans 14: 5​

Now I am an Adventist for over fifty years and I do not agree with you and the SDA leaders, scholars and teachers on this point. First again I cannot fathom why anyone would think that Paul is above Elohim and His word. His word cannot be changed unless He not man stated as it was given. Paul even said let one be accurse to do so even and angel. Paul was dealing with people who once celebrated pagan set time or days and they had to accept truth in their own mind and not be forced. Paul did not indicate anything about the Sabbath or the Feast of Yahweh in this Scripture! Psa 89:34; 103:20; Gal 1-14

I do know this though which has been revealed to me thru His Holy Spirit as I with He alone have studied the Bible: Matthew 28:9 Suddenly Jesus met them. “Greetings,” he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him. How about you tell me what day this was, not that it makes any difference, just interesting.

In your study did you read verse seven of the same chapter?​

And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you.Mat 28:7 ​

This let you know clearly it was Sunday and rose which is work that He did not do on the Sabbath. He rested in the tomb and He did not allow the ladies to embalm Him while He was dead. He is the Elohim of the living and not of the dead. "Christ" is title used by the Greeks who brought into the church eastern occult from Egypt. It is derivative comes also from Persia and it means to embalm the dead! Yashua made sure that He was embalmed while He was alive. Matt 26:7-12 (Please read these historical records: Herodotus Cho. 901; The Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible)

I think you took this a little father than the actual meaning. Here is what it means in Hebrew: The word Sabbath is from the Hebrew word SHABÀT, meaning ‘cessation,’ or ‘time of rest.’ In the beginning God worked, but he also rested. Work and rest are both in God’s plan, and both are in nature. God finishes all that he starts. His created works were finished.

This is what the Bible state about Shabbat:​

Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day Elohim 1ended his work which he had made; and 2he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And Elohim 3blessed the seventh day, and 4sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which Elohim created and made. Gen 2:1-3

If thou turn away thy foot from the Sabbath , from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the Sabbath a delight, the holy of YAHWEH honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: Then shalt thou delight thyself in YAHWEH; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of YAHWEH hath spoken it. Isa 58:13, 14

For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith YAHWEH, so shall your seed and your name remain. And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith YAHWEH. Isa 66:22, 23

And he said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath: Therefore the Son of man is Master also of the Sabbath. Mark 2:27, 28

I feel that these Scriptures speak for themselves the actual meaning of the Sabbath which is more than rest or cessation and all flesh shall come and worship Yahweh on His Sabbath!​

A question for you: What was the reason for the Sabbath in Exodus? Was it not a TYPE of JESUS?

I never heard this before but the answer is no the Sabbath was never a type at all! It was a statute and the first Feast of Yahweh and it showed that His authority included both the earth and the rest of the universe! Gen 2:1-3; Lev 23:1-4​

Blessings,​

stinsonmarri

 

[Hupomone10]

H:​

I am so sorry if you felt that you have made points and you felt they have been ignored or selectively answered. I hope that my answers will be satisfactory to you through the Holy Spirit and our Savior.

I beg to differ with you because Adam was under the original Covenant. What is a covenant but a contract agreement that was broken by man? There is an everlasting covenant that Yahweh included all nations would come under including Israel (please read Isa 61 the whole chapter). I just want to say if you could really understand that Jacob was renamed Israel because he overcame his sins. Israel is for all because Yahweh stated this so. He claimed that His house would be a place of worship for all people. Mat 21:13; Mark 11:17; Luke 19:46. Now here's another problem the scribes who wrote the KJV interpreted it instead of writing it as the Hebrew language truly meant! Let's look at Psa 105:7-10:​

He is YAHWEH our Elohim: his judgments are in all the earth. He hath remembered his covenant forever, the word which he commanded to a thousand generations. Which covenant he made with Abraham, and his oath unto Isaac; And confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant: ​

The Hebrew word "olam" means perpetual which the English word is "everlasting." But here is the mystery which is the Hebrew word "choq or chuqqah (this is the feminine form of the word). Many Adventist also do not understand these words which in English is "statute or law." When Yahweh told Moses to come up to accept what He (Yahweh) would give him would be written by His own finger. But many do not read Ex 24:12 which are two separate words "law (torah) and "commandments" (mitzvah). Now "torah" actually mean set time or feast days and the first one as am outline was the Sabbath! This statute was given in Gen 2:1-3 but all of the statues were given in Gen 1:14! That's why Abraham kept more than just commandments and if you look up the word in your Bible it will appear on numerous occasions. Gen 25:10 "Mitzvah" mean Yahweh's constitution provided in a specific order as our constitution is provided. Yahweh's constitution is universal as well as His statutes are because both the angels observe them and other sons of Elohim (these are beings created in the universe that did not fall) like man present themselves before Him as Israel was required. We are also required today but our offering of sacrifice is our bodies. Psa 89:31; 103:18, 20; 111:10; Mat 22:40; Luke 1:6; John 14:15; 15:10; 1Jn 2:3; 1Jn 3:22, 24; 1Jn 5:2, 3;1:6; Rev 12:17; 14:12; 22:14 - Job 1:6; 2:1; John 1:12; Rom 8:14, 19; Php 2:15; 1Jn 3:1; 2 Heb 1:5 ​

And madest known unto them thy holy Sabbath, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant: Neh 9:14

And YAHWEH said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them. Ex 24:12​

Moses taught Israel Yahweh statutes and commandments that they had forgotten living under bondage in Egypt.​

Ex 31:16-17 - The English languages is confusing because the word "their" is not used and generation actually means ages so it should be read as a law for ever through the universe. The proof is Isa 66: 22 Nehemiah 9:14; Ezekiel 20:12 - Again Yahweh selected Moses to teach them how to obey His word. If you truly become under the umbrella of Yahweh the true sign of Elohim is His Sabbath. Why? Because He not only created the earth, but the whole universe which is clearly stated in both Gen 2:1-3 and in Ex 20:8-11.

Heb. 8-Now it is strange that you use this text because Paul repeats Jeremiah! Yahweh told Israel to write this time His commands and laws on stone to show symbolically how hard men hearts had become because of sin. But when Yashua would come and die He through the power of the Holy Spirit would come and cut through and make the heart (mind) soft or tender once again. Then Yahweh's word can be understood or remember in our minds. Remember the above text was written first in the OT! Deut 27:8; Pro 3:3; 7:2, 3; Jer 31:33

I hope you do not mind but I combine the rest of your comments together and will make points on each one collectively. What I cannot fathom from those who made the claim that the Sabbath was only for the Hebrew people (known through Jacob's new name as representative to all that will overcomes sin) as they are better than everyone else! You know they think they are too! But they are not! You Elohim as being a bigot and racist and Elohim made all of mankind and want them all to obey the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Why would he give something just one people that would not be fair. He did not and the Bible proves it! Ex 12:49; Act 10:34 The Sabbath statute was given in the beginning and if you want to make it to Heaven it will be there as well. Can you please show me that when they broke bread it means worship? "Breaking bread" metaphorically means having a meal together with someone or starting a meal for guest. The Catholic Church changed this to mean having communion (mass) which is not Biblical! I have never read anywhere in the Bible that Elohim, Yashua or the Apostles said keep holy the first day of the week if so show me where? Again you are wrong the Greeks kept the Sabbath as well. Act 13:42, 44; 16:13; 17:1-5; 18:4 Now in Acts 15 what was not impose on neither the Greeks or the Jews any longer were the laws of Moses which were nailed to cross. Jews even today cannot sacrifice because the Bible gave a command that they were to cease. Dan 9:27 This was a book placed on the side of the Ark of the Covenant and not under the mercy seat where both the statutes and commandments were written by the finger of Yahweh. Also there is the original Ark of the Covenant in Heaven so how can you state that His word is only for the Jews it is shown from Heaven during the end of time! A. T. Robertson,John MacArthur and SDA Commentary are all incorrect! Because Paul was telling the Colossians that the Jews were holding on to the laws of Moses namely the ordinances that were nail to the Savior's cross. The Jews had no right to keep them from keeping the feast days because these statutes were shadows or protected in obedience through the death of Yashua to be observed. Ex 31:18; 40:20, 21; Deut 31:9; 24:24, 26; Neh 8:1, 8:8, 14, 18 ​

Now according to 2 Maccabees 2:4-8 (which I truly accept as an historical account but not a part of the holy cannon of the Bible), stated that the earthly Ark was taken and hidden by Jeremiah before the city was captured. I also believe that it will be found in the last days because of it holiness containing the glory of the Most High and cannot be touched by men today but only anointed were to carry with wooden sticks through rings or death would follow. Witness "edah" and testimony "eduth" means the same thing.

Witness - O.E. witnes "attestation of fact, event, etc., from personal knowledge;" also "one who so testifies;" originally "knowledge, wit," formed from wit (n.) + -ness. Testimony - late 14c., "the Ten Commandments," from L.L. testimonium (Vulgate), along with Gk. to martyrion (Septuagint), translations of Heb. 'eduth "attestation, testimony" (of the Decalogue), from 'ed "witness." Meaning "evidence, statement of a witness" first recorded early 15c., from O.Fr. testimonie (11c.), from L. testimonium "evidence, proof, testimony," from testis "witness" (see testament) + -monium, suffix signifying "action, state, condition." The Greek word "martus" has an unknown meaning that is why many Bible scholars (which I am one also) agree that the word proves that the NT was originally written in Hebrew 2Sa 6:6, 7; Rev 11:11-19

Then Yashua said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. John 6:32

The Israelites was given a special privilege as did the Canaanites before them and Baalim who was not Hebrew nor Job as well. The Canaanites had Melchizedek (king/priest and original builder of Jerusalem known as Salem) meaning they had Yahweh laws and commandments first but the ruling class the Amorites and the others were turning away and following Baal. Yahweh told Abraham that while his children would be put in bondage He was giving the Canaanite four hundred and thirty years to return to Yahweh they didn't and the rod was now given to Israel. Israel had more privileges than Canaan because of what they suffered in Egypt. But you forget a mix multitude came out with Israel and they had Yashua to bring them back and were allowed four hundred and ninety year which came to end when the Jews stone Stephen. Now it is the white's man time because through each son of Noah Yahweh selected one to be his messenger to all of mankind and each one has fail so a special group of overcomers from all nations will finish and bring in the great multitude. Gen 14: 18, 19; 15:16; Ex. 12:40; Dan 7:24; Act 7:6; Rev 7:1-9

I hope that I have answered your concerns with truth, love and with a humble spirit.​

Blessing on you,
stinsonmarri

Thank you for this thought out response. I will have to take it with me tonight and digest it due to time and work responsibilities, and will respond tomorrow. I will consider your points and please don't be upset if I disagree, and please give me the same courtesy of considering my points. We are as Christians on the pursuit of truth, not the pursuit of defense of our theological comfort boxes.

Blessings,
H.

 

[Hupomone10]

When one says they are dead to the flesh and dead to sin that means they are now living the will of God as opposed to living in sin.

True, when understood properly.

But you are in part confusing position with condition. Dead to sin is first of all our position given to us freely in Christ, and then as it is coupled with faith this positional truth changes our condition such that our "living" in sin changes. Condition begins to match position through the process of growth.

If you will allow yourself to move away from this obsession on the Sabbath being the beginning and end of all truth that delivers from sinful strongholds, you will learn such wonderful concepts and many more deep concepts that can really change and impact one's life, changing it into the likeness of Christ, rather than just allowing Self to be proud because it thinks it is worshiping on the correct day. I'm being serious, and I hope you will do so. There are no doubt strongholds of sin in your life you need to overcome, and the day of the week one worships on is not the principle that God gave to deliver from these Goliaths.

Blessings,
H

 

[k4c]

True, when understood properly.

But you are in part confusing position with condition. Dead to sin is first of all our position given to us freely in Christ, and then as it is coupled with faith this positional truth changes our condition such that our "living" in sin changes. Condition begins to match position through the process of growth.

If you will allow yourself to move away from this obsession on the Sabbath being the beginning and end of all truth that delivers from sinful strongholds, you will learn such wonderful concepts and many more deep concepts that can really change and impact one's life, changing it into the likeness of Christ, rather than just allowing Self to be proud because it thinks it is worshiping on the correct day. I'm being serious, and I hope you will do so. There are no doubt strongholds of sin in your life you need to overcome, and the day of the week one worships on is not the principle that God gave to deliver from these Goliaths.

Blessings,
H

The greatest life changing experience comes when Jesus reveals Himself to us. He tells us in the John 14:21 that if we keep the commandments Jesus will reveal Himself to us.

The Bible tells us to reckon yourself dead to sin and alive to righteousness. The Bible tells us to pick up our cross daily. These principles teach us that it's our part to resist sin and do the will of God. This does not mean you to are not saved, but rather you are now alive to God.

 

[Hupomone10]

H:​

I am so sorry if you felt that you have made points and you felt they have been ignored or selectively answered. I hope that my answers will be satisfactory to you through the Holy Spirit and our Savior.

I just want to say if you could really understand that Jacob was renamed Israel because he overcame his sins. Israel is for all because Yahweh stated this so.

A. T. Robertson,John MacArthur and SDA Commentary are all incorrect!

I hope that I have answered your concerns with truth, love and with a humble spirit.​

Blessing on you,
stinsonmarri

Your original post is is too long for me to follow. I’m just a simple guy, and I’m getting lost in the point you are either trying to make or which of the 10 points in my previous post you are trying to refute.

There are a couple of things from your post I think I should address, but I’ll save them for later.

I’ll stick to only one of the previous points at a time so we can both be clear as to what is being addressed.

First, # 8 and 9 from the previous post…
Eighth, Paul rebuked the Galatians for thinking God expected them to observe special days (including the Sabbath) (Gal. 4:10-11).
Gal. 4:10-11 You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.
Col. 2:16-17 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. (Sabbath day is singular; according to Greek scholars the KJV incorrectly translated it as plural in “an effort to transliterate the Aramaic sabbathah.” -A. T. Robertson, noted Greek scholar, and eminent Baptist scholar and professor). These (including the Sabbath) are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

Ninth, Paul taught that keeping the Sabbath was a matter of Christian liberty (Rom. 14:5).
Romans 14:5 One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.

These are both related and go contrary to what I am hearing on this sub-forum.

First with #9 that it is a matter of one’s freedom and conscience whether he even keeps special days like the Sabbath or not; and second, with #8 that they actually received a rebuke for observance of special days. And AT Robertson is not wrong as you stated, he is a well respected Greek scholar and I’m quite sure he’s right here. If you wish to challenge this, please present scholars and their work to support the word meaning differently rather than just stating your opinion that you think he is wrong. I think this is fair, don’t you? But please, the issue isn’t so much with Robertson or the word, that’s incidental. The issue is the point made with # 8 and 9. I have been given Christian liberty regarding observance of the Sabbath or any special days, regardless of any other issues such as the law being fulfilled and not applicable to the church age, it doesn’t matter because I’ve been given liberty regarding this from the Holy Spirit, explicitly given here.

So, let’s stick to one point at a time. Fair enough?

Regarding your post, again I’ll only deal with one point of it at a time, but this is the most glaring mistake I saw:

You said “Jacob was renamed Israel because he overcame his sins.” But scripture is very clear about why Jacob was renamed Israel and what it was that Jacob was striving with, and it was not sin.
Gen 32:28
"Your name shall no longer be Jacob, but Israel; for you have striven with God and with men and have prevailed."

There is no indication in the name change that Jacob was fighting or overcoming his sins, rather he was wrestling with God. As a matter of fact, in the very next chapter we still see Jacob the schemer assuming his brother Esau means ill against him and instead of trusting God and appealing to God, he comes up with a scheme that might preserve at least part of his children, wives, and goods.

His name means "soldier of" or "contender with God" (Faussett)

 

[k4c]

Your original post is is too long for me to follow. I’m just a simple guy, and I’m getting lost in the point you are either trying to make or which of the 10 points in my previous post you are trying to refute.

There are a couple of things from your post I think I should address, but I’ll save them for later.

I’ll stick to only one of the previous points at a time so we can both be clear as to what is being addressed.

First, # 8 and 9 from the previous post…
Eighth, Paul rebuked the Galatians for thinking God expected them to observe special days (including the Sabbath) (Gal. 4:10-11).
Gal. 4:10-11 You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.
Col. 2:16-17 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. (Sabbath day is singular; according to Greek scholars the KJV incorrectly translated it as plural in “an effort to transliterate the Aramaic sabbathah.” -A. T. Robertson, noted Greek scholar, and eminent Baptist scholar and professor). These (including the Sabbath) are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

Ninth, Paul taught that keeping the Sabbath was a matter of Christian liberty (Rom. 14:5).
Romans 14:5 One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.

These are both related and go contrary to what I am hearing on this sub-forum.

First with #9 that it is a matter of one’s freedom and conscience whether he even keeps special days like the Sabbath or not; and second, with #8 that they actually received a rebuke for observance of special days. And AT Robertson is not wrong as you stated, he is a well respected Greek scholar and I’m quite sure he’s right here. If you wish to challenge this, please present scholars and their work to support the word meaning differently rather than just stating your opinion that you think he is wrong. I think this is fair, don’t you? But please, the issue isn’t so much with Robertson or the word, that’s incidental. The issue is the point made with # 8 and 9. I have been given Christian liberty regarding observance of the Sabbath or any special days, regardless of any other issues such as the law being fulfilled and not applicable to the church age, it doesn’t matter because I’ve been given liberty regarding this from the Holy Spirit, explicitly given here.

So, let’s stick to one point at a time. Fair enough?

Regarding your post, again I’ll only deal with one point of it at a time, but this is the most glaring mistake I saw:

You said “Jacob was renamed Israel because he overcame his sins.” But scripture is very clear about why Jacob was renamed Israel and what it was that Jacob was striving with, and it was not sin.
Gen 32:28
"Your name shall no longer be Jacob, but Israel; for you have striven with God and with men and have prevailed."

There is no indication in the name change that Jacob was fighting or overcoming his sins, rather he was wrestling with God. As a matter of fact, in the very next chapter we still see Jacob the schemer assuming his brother Esau means ill against him and instead of trusting God and appealing to God, he comes up with a scheme that might preserve at least part of his children, wives, and goods.

His name means "soldier of" or "contender with God" (Faussett)

The Gentiles, as well as, the Jews were rebuked when they believed they could be justified by keeping the Law. When a person believes he is justified when he keeps the commandments it causes him to draw his value and self worth to God by his ability to perform. This causes us to believe that when we have a good day we feel loved by God but when we have a bad day we feel rejected by God. We can also become judgemental as the pharisee who says, "I'm glad I'm not like that person" because in our minds we have set the standard by how well we can obey the commandments and use our ability as a standard to determine who is acceptable to God. Our value to God is seen in the cross, outside obedience to anything for God, even the Law of God.

When we see and understand our value and acceptance is in the cross we will be free to obey the commandments because our obedience won't be motived by fear, guilt or strife to be accepted, but rather, the motive will be because two people are in love. God loving us and we loving Him. In this it will be hard not to keep the commandments.

 

[stinsonmarri]

Thank you for this thought out response. I will have to take it with me tonight and digest it due to time and work responsibilities, and will respond tomorrow. I will consider your points and please don't be upset if I disagree, and please give me the same courtesy of considering my points. We are as Christians on the pursuit of truth, not the pursuit of defense of our theological comfort boxes.

Blessings,
H.

H:

My dear friend that is what we are here for to present the truth. I do not claim that I know everything but what I do understand I stand firm. But I do not become angry because you disagree with me. All I ask anyone is to back up what they are presenting by the Bible and also realize that words have change their original meaning. You must have the willingness to learn and understand what words originally meant at the time it was written. Many disagree with me because they fail to understand this most important point.

I, as an Adventist, am a firm believer in EGW not as a prophtess but a messenger who also misunderstood things due to education and historical background. But what I admire about her is the willingness to stand up when she made a mistake and declare it. Sad to say the leaders in my Church hide this fact about her I don't because she is human as you and I are. Did she have visions, yes she did so did many others during this time called the "Great Awakening." Some had merit and truth others did not! I stand firm on her visions but not her opinions. However one thing she stated in her first book that was a fact that words were changed in the Bible to meet the tradition and doctrines of the translators. They interpreted instead of understand and write it as the words mean and make them fit as they wanted base on their belief.

I just want you to know that their are those in the Adventist Faith who stand firm but not in arrogant or bigotry but with humbleness and mercy. We all can learn from each other I have many of things I speak on is because I have learned but research it out from others that are not from my church.

May all who come on this forum know and understand that we all are speaking and should search and undstand what is truth and not care who provides it base on church, religion, doctrines, traditions, education, nationalty, or sex.

May the Holy Spirit lead in your studies on those things I provide for truth in the Most High. Be Bless,
stinsonmarri

 

[stinsonmarri]

The Gentiles, as well as, the Jews were rebuked when they believed they could be justified by keeping the Law. When a person believes he is justified when he keeps the commandments it causes him to draw his value and self worth to God by his ability to perform. This causes us to believe that when we have a good day we feel loved by God but when we have a bad day we feel rejected by God. We can also become judgemental as the pharisee who says, "I'm glad I'm not like that person" because in our minds we have set the standard by how well we can obey the commandments and use our ability as a standard to determine who is acceptable to God. Our value to God is seen in the cross, outside obedience to anything for God, even the Law of God.

When we see and understand our value and acceptance is in the cross we will be free to obey the commandments because our obedience won't be motived by fear, guilt or strife to be accepted, but rather, the motive will be because two people are in love. God loving us and we loving Him. In this it will be hard not to keep the commandments.

k4c:

Which law was Paul referring too my friend? I wish that Adventist would understand that there were two laws. One was Moses written in a book along with curses. This book of laws dealt with the sacrifices and oblation and the priestly services. They were ordinances and rituals of how to carry out the sacrfices, oblation and services. Read SDA Bible Commentary Leviticus Outline and you see that these ceremonies were done everyday including the Sabbath and the Feast Days. Only more sacrifices were done on the Sabbath and the other Feast Days! This book was placed in the side of the Ark. But Yahweh's Laws were not they were placed under the Mercy Seat. It contain the Commandments and the Statutes which are the Feast Days of Yahweh (including the Sabbath). They were not nailed to the cross you get the two mixed up as EGW stated. Paul to the Colossians that were Greeks joined the Church. But the Jews that worshipped in the same place were not converted but kept Moses laws. They wanted the Colossians to observe what was nail to the cross. Then Paul told the Colossians that no one had a right to restright you in judgment of the Supper, Holy Assembly called Feast Days, New Moon which is suppose to be worship today every first day of the New Moon which is the beginning of the months and not the Gregorian calendar! Finally in keeping the Sabbath because these are a protection (shadow) through the body of Yashua who obeyedy His Father's Commands. When all would take time and study Ex-Deut and realize that there are two laws than you will truly understand what Paul was explaining also to the Galatians as well.

Be bless,
stinsonmarri

 

[earagun]

I was wondering why the apostle Paul didn't put it on his list for those who live a certian way, wouldn't inherit salvation, I mean lets face it Paul was about as picky as it gets, naming everything from lying to homosexuality, to robbing temples, to adultry, idolatry, to slander and drunkeness to every sin under the sun, if we were to pick out and list all the sins Paul talks about, it would be pretty extensive......Do you ever once wonder why keeping the sabath was never listed, or mentioned in a way that it should be kept......I mean he does refer to it in Colossians 2, but actually its opposite of what you hold as true

 

[earagun]

Don't ya hate it when people come in the forum, ask some questions and then decide to not come back to respond to the answers given?

It's all good though, cause my sword is a little sharper and my armour a little more fortified....

and pride comes before a fall

 

[stinsonmarri]

and pride comes before a fall

Well spoken! The reason I say this is I comment and have asked my friend constantly to show me from the Bible what I have stated wrong. I am an Adventist by faith and not by doctrines and traditions of the church. So I speak firm and frank but with love and kindness and I am shun by some who appear arrogant without the Bible as a guide. So I agree with you base on the comment ECR made which was wrong! Please forgive him because some of us are not like that. I believe in the Bible and not any church. I believe in the message of the Advent Church but people corrupt what was once pure. That is why no one in any church is better than anyone of another church!

Blessings,
stinsonmarri

 

[k4c]

Well spoken! The reason I say this is I comment and have asked my friend constantly to show me from the Bible what I have stated wrong. I am an Adventist by faith and not by doctrines and traditions of the church. So I speak firm and frank but with love and kindness and I am shun by some who appear arrogant without the Bible as a guide. So I agree with you base on the comment ECR made which was wrong! Please forgive him because some of us are not like that. I believe in the Bible and not any church. I believe in the message of the Advent Church but people corrupt what was once pure. That is why no one in any church is better than anyone of another church!

Blessings,
stinsonmarri

I think you guys are misinterpreting what he meant. What he means is that when someone asks a question and you do a lot of study and typing to answer it with no reply it's not a total waste because you benefited from all the studying and typing you did to answer it. Studying the word and presenting the word is what sharpens our swords. ECR is loving and caring brother in Christ.

 

[stinsonmarri]

I think you guys are misinterpreting what he meant. What he means is that when someone asks a question and you do a lot of study and typing to answer it with no reply it's not a total waste because you benefited from all the studying and typing you did to answer it. Studying the word and presenting the word is what sharpens our swords.

k4c:

This is what he said and it was not kind at all and I love ECR and he has pointed out when I've done wrong. I accepted and apologize simple!

Don't ya hate it when people come in the forum, ask some questions and then decide to not come back to respond to the answers given?

It's all good though, cause my sword is a little sharper and my armour a little more fortified....

I am waiting patiently for him to respond back with the Bibles all those things he claim I said that were not Biblical. He won't even those things I provided by EGW claiming she is not a prophet but a messenger and she even stated that Yashua told her. How clear is that? I also provided numerous time what I've said using direct Bible text and asked to show where are the claims that Church leaders provided on the beast, pope, Armaggedon, Sunday blue law (claimed to be the mark of the beast) and more found in the Bible, but he refuses too. He just say as he expect others not of our denomination to give an answer about the Sabbath and other factual truths we hold to in the Bible and he give them an answer. Why not me on my questions? What good for the goose is good for the gander!!! We all should be respected don't you think?

Blessings
stinsonmarri

 

[k4c]

k4c:

This is what he said and it was not kind at all and I love ECR and he has pointed out when I've done wrong. I accepted and apologize simple!

Don't ya hate it when people come in the forum, ask some questions and then decide to not come back to respond to the answers given?

It's all good though, cause my sword is a little sharper and my armour a little more fortified....

I am waiting patiently for him to respond back with the Bibles all those things he claim I said that were not Biblical. He won't even those things I provided by EGW claiming she is not a prophet but a messenger and she even stated that Yashua told her. How clear is that? I also provided numerous time what I've said using direct Bible text and asked to show where are the claims that Church leaders provided on the beast, pope, Armaggedon, Sunday blue law (claimed to be the mark of the beast) and more found in the Bible, but he refuses too. He just say as he expect others not of our denomination to give an answer about the Sabbath and other factual truths we hold to in the Bible and he give them an answer. Why not me on my questions? What good for the goose is good for the gander!!! We all should be respected don't you think?

Blessings
stinsonmarri

Of course we should all show respect but I still believe you misinterpreted what he said and maybe who he was referring to. But I think we should let him shed light on the subject.

 

[k4c]

k4c:

Which law was Paul referring too my friend? I wish that Adventist would understand that there were two laws. One was Moses written in a book along with curses. This book of laws dealt with the sacrifices and oblation and the priestly services. They were ordinances and rituals of how to carry out the sacrfices, oblation and services. Read SDA Bible Commentary Leviticus Outline and you see that these ceremonies were done everyday including the Sabbath and the Feast Days. Only more sacrifices were done on the Sabbath and the other Feast Days! This book was placed in the side of the Ark. But Yahweh's Laws were not they were placed under the Mercy Seat. It contain the Commandments and the Statutes which are the Feast Days of Yahweh (including the Sabbath). They were not nailed to the cross you get the two mixed up as EGW stated. Paul to the Colossians that were Greeks joined the Church. But the Jews that worshipped in the same place were not converted but kept Moses laws. They wanted the Colossians to observe what was nail to the cross. Then Paul told the Colossians that no one had a right to restright you in judgment of the Supper, Holy Assembly called Feast Days, New Moon which is suppose to be worship today every first day of the New Moon which is the beginning of the months and not the Gregorian calendar! Finally in keeping the Sabbath because these are a protection (shadow) through the body of Yashua who obeyedy His Father's Commands. When all would take time and study Ex-Deut and realize that there are two laws than you will truly understand what Paul was explaining also to the Galatians as well.

Be bless,
stinsonmarri

Justification has to do with a past wrong made right. No keeping of any law can justify a person from a past wrong, only the blood of Christ can.

 

[k4c]

I was wondering why the apostle Paul didn't put it on his list for those who live a certian way, wouldn't inherit salvation, I mean lets face it Paul was about as picky as it gets, naming everything from lying to homosexuality, to robbing temples, to adultry, idolatry, to slander and drunkeness to every sin under the sun, if we were to pick out and list all the sins Paul talks about, it would be pretty extensive......Do you ever once wonder why keeping the sabath was never listed, or mentioned in a way that it should be kept......I mean he does refer to it in Colossians 2, but actually its opposite of what you hold as true

I believe keeping the Sabbath holy, under the new covenant, is the least of all the commandments. Those who break the least of the commandments and teach others to do the same will be least in the kingdom of God.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

I think you guys are misinterpreting what he meant. What he means is that when someone asks a question and you do a lot of study and typing to answer it with no reply it's not a total waste because you benefited from all the studying and typing you did to answer it. Studying the word and presenting the word is what sharpens our swords. ECR is loving and caring brother in Christ.

Thanx brother....

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

k4c:

This is what he said and it was not kind at all and I love ECR and he has pointed out when I've done wrong. I accepted and apologize simple!

Don't ya hate it when people come in the forum, ask some questions and then decide to not come back to respond to the answers given?

It's all good though, cause my sword is a little sharper and my armour a little more fortified....

I am waiting patiently for him to respond back with the Bibles all those things he claim I said that were not Biblical. He won't even those things I provided by EGW claiming she is not a prophet but a messenger and she even stated that Yashua told her. How clear is that? I also provided numerous time what I've said using direct Bible text and asked to show where are the claims that Church leaders provided on the beast, pope, Armaggedon, Sunday blue law (claimed to be the mark of the beast) and more found in the Bible, but he refuses too. He just say as he expect others not of our denomination to give an answer about the Sabbath and other factual truths we hold to in the Bible and he give them an answer. Why not me on my questions? What good for the goose is good for the gander!!! We all should be respected don't you think?

Blessings
stinsonmarri

For the record, I don't try to re-educate you on the pillars and platform of our faith because, as you have said many, many times, you have been an Adventist for 50 years and are highly educated in all these things... to me, you already know what the majority of Adventists believe and have chosen to go your own way, to have your own personal interpretation... in my opinion, the wrong understanding...

You certainly have that prerogative, I am not going to try and convince you otherwise, thats the Holy Spirits domain.

 

[Hupomone10]

The Gentiles, as well as, the Jews were rebuked when they believed they could be justified by keeping the Law. When a person believes he is justified when he keeps the commandments it causes him to draw his value and self worth to God by his ability to perform. This causes us to believe that when we have a good day we feel loved by God but when we have a bad day we feel rejected by God. We can also become judgemental as the pharisee who says, "I'm glad I'm not like that person" because in our minds we have set the standard by how well we can obey the commandments and use our ability as a standard to determine who is acceptable to God. Our value to God is seen in the cross, outside obedience to anything for God, even the Law of God.

When we see and understand our value and acceptance is in the cross we will be free to obey the commandments because our obedience won't be motived by fear, guilt or strife to be accepted, but rather, the motive will be because two people are in love. God loving us and we loving Him. In this it will be hard not to keep the commandments.

:o
IMHO, A feeling of acceptance is not the way underwritten by Scripture whereby one fulfills the requirement of the law. It does help, and it is part of it, but Romans 8 shows that this feeling of acceptance and the motivation of love is only part, and if not followed up with walking by the spirit based on the principles of chapters 6 & 7, it will prove to be a requirement still outside our reach.

“Every hungry-hearted Christian yearns to be fully consecrated and conditioned for effective life and service. And from the outset, until hard experience teaches him otherwise, the well-meaning believer thinks that since he has the will to obey God and to be what He intends for him, he should attempt to carry it out through personal consecrated effort with His help. He seeks to struggle forward via the love motive, i.e., He did for me, so I must do for Him.”

A superficial acquaintance with God’s plan leads to the view that while justification is God’s work, by faith in Christ, sanctification (growth) is our work, to be performed under the influence of the gratitude we feel for the deliverance we have experienced, and by the aid of the Holy Spirit. But the earnest Christian soon finds how little gratitude can supply the power. When he thinks that more prayer will supply it, he finds that, indispensable as prayer is, it is not enough. Often the believer struggles hopelessly for years, until he listens to the teaching of the Spirit, as He glorifies Christ again, and reveals Christ, our Sanctification, to be appropriated by faith alone.”
- Andrew Murray