How amazing is it that we exist?

[psychedelicist]

To quote Celia Green on the matter:

"It is inconceivable that anything should be existing. It is not inconceivable that a lot of people should also be existing who are not interested in the fact that they exist. But it is certainly very odd."

"The fact that something is far-fetched is no reason why it should not be true; it cannot be as far-fetched as the fact that something exists."

Now, asking why we exist seems equally ludicrous, especially when you think about the question of 'why' itself. Ask it about just about anything and you will find that you can't really answer it, only the what, how, etc. An example, "why does gravity work like it does?" The answer would be "Because objects attract other objects, the larger the mass of the object, the more it attracts." This is the only real answer you can give, but it only answers what and how, not why. You could reduce it to something like "because it just does" or "because god did it" but then we would still be left wondering just WHY it just does or just WHY god did it. The only thing I can think of is that the WHY does not exist, we have created it for ourselves to find an answer to a question that doesn't exist. It's all very frustrating.

I have to wonder just who invented this question and what on earth they had in mind when they did.

 

[Casstranquility]

Well, I am "deeply religious" in the sense that Einstein spoke of (see my previous post of the Einstein quote). But this isn't a contest - maybe it would turn out we are equally religious.

I've come to think of myself as very spiritual rather than religious. But, that's all a matter of definition anyway.

Well, I'm a christian (small c) in the sense that I hold the Golden Rule as my moral guide in dealing with others.

It's so nice that you can say that! I think anyone who follows the guidelines of love is a christian.

You might try explaining to them that since a creator god's existence can not be scientifically or empirically proven (or disproved) it is a matter of faith. The idea that the creative force and the creation are utterly ONE likewise cannot be proven or disproven. Rather than faith I would say it is a logical conclusion.

I would get in sooo much trouble if I did that.

But if your Christian friends wish to continue to abstract out the creative force from the created, personify and anthropomorphize it, and then worship it - well, that's a choice. Seems an illogical over-belief but, as the agnostic says, it MAY be true. Who can say?

I have a need to personify the creative force in the universe...it's probably left over from my years as a Bible believing Christian. It's really hard to undo conditioning.

 

[JGL53]

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I've come to think of myself as very spiritual rather than religious. But, that's all a matter of definition anyway...

A lot of my friends who have no use for organized religion think of themselves as spiritual. I myself am spiritual - in the sense that James Brown has "soul".

It's so nice that you can say that!...I think anyone who follows the guidelines of love is a christian...

Yeah. So most devout Buddhists, Taoists, and Vedantists qualifiy as christians (small c). I'm not sure they would be flattered by this.

I would get in sooo much trouble if I did that....

Oh, I doubt they would burn you at the stake. If you think they might, maybe you need to get new friends.

I have a need to personify the creative force in the universe...it's probably left over from my years as a Bible believing Christian. It's really hard to undo conditioning...

Yeah, maybe it would help to do some reading in eastern thought philosophy. A good place to start is with philosopher Alan Watts:

http://groups.msn.com/TheContinuanceofAlanWattsPhilosophy/messages.msnw

Some of the essays listed on the left side of the page are good.

 

[Casstranquility]

A lot of my friends who have no use for organized religion think of themselves as spiritual. I myself am spiritual - in the sense that James Brown has "soul".

Cool.

Yeah. So most devout Buddhists, Taoists, and Vedantists qualifiy as christians (small c). I'm not sure they would be flattered by this.

I don't know if they would be or not, but I have this odd want to unite the world religions...

Oh, I doubt they would burn you at the stake. If you think they might, maybe you need to get new friends.

I doubt that, too...but, they have a way of torturing me emotionally! I've actually thought about that.

Yeah, maybe it would help to do some reading in eastern thought philosophy. A good place to start is with philosopher Alan Watts:

I have done some reading in eastern thought philosophy-mostly Zen Buddhism though. I think I'll take a look at the site you suggest. Thanks.

-Cassie

 

[JGL53]

...I have done some reading in eastern thought philosophy-mostly Zen Buddhism though. I think I'll take a look at the site you suggest. Thanks....

-Cassie

Good deal. Most of Watt's focus happens to be on Zen, with Taoism a close second (though he sees Zen as basically a melding of Buddhism and Taoism).

Watts has his own particular understanding and interpretation of, well, I suppose what we could call the nature of being. He is far from being orthodox under any definition (apparently, your kind of guy.)

BTW there is quite an elaborate pantheism site now and I go to it occasionally. I'm traveling right now (Cincinnati) and don't remember the site name but it could be simply pantheism.com. Well, google is always there for us.