hopelessness

WorldFriction said:

True, but that isn't what this thread is about. It troubles me that we (myself included ) have allowed yet another thread to be derailed. I find it especially sad because this is the type of thread that really needs to stay on-topic.

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Lets do.

Seriously everyone: Back to the Topic. Pronto. (Not J/K)

Carlton Pearson.... Religion won’t let you love yourself.

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Pearson was a "local guy" here; ran "Higher Dimensions Church". When he bought into Universalism, he lost his congregation, then the building. A large part of the text I wrote overthrows Universalism; when it's published, he and I are gonna have a talk.

"Loving ourselves", is opposed to Christianity; the commandment "love others as you love yourselves", is NOT a command to "love ourselves". Our self-worth (as I said earlier in this thread), is based on the fact that HE loves us. Nothing more.

Of ourselves, we are worthless; wretched sinners. I cannot be righteous --- all my righteousness is as filthy rags to Him.

This is why the "essence of Christianity" is so important.

Jesus died for ME --- for Snowbunny, for EACH of you.

...because of love...

In John15, Jesus said: "Greater love has NO man, than to lay down his life for his friends; and you ARE My friends, if you do what I command."

This is what the Cross was about; ultimate love, that He laid down His life for us.

That's the end of depression --- faith. It is recognition that He has a magnificent plan for EACH of us. He is the Creator, He made me --- He knows what will make me happy. In Matt7 Jesus says: "Which of you, if your son asks for a fish, you will not give him a snake, will you? Or if he asks for a loaf of bread, you will not give him a rock, will you? If you being (by nature) evil know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in Heaven give to those who ASK?"

Depression, despair --- do require medical intervention. AND, they also require falling to our knees before God, that He will indwell us, and that His joy will become ours.

The more we seek Him, the more His Sonlight will pervade our souls and chase away the rainclouds.

That's a fact.

Ben johnson said:

Pearson was a "local guy" here; ran "Higher Dimensions Church". When he bought into Universalism, he lost his congregation, then the building. A large part of the text I wrote overthrows Universalism; when it's published, he and I are gonna have a talk.

"Loving ourselves", is opposed to Christianity; the commandment "love others as you love yourselves", is NOT a command to "love ourselves". Our self-worth (as I said earlier in this thread), is based on the fact that HE loves us. Nothing more.

Of ourselves, we are worthless; wretched sinners. I cannot be righteous --- all my righteousness is as filthy rags to Him.

This is why the "essence of Christianity" is so important.

Jesus died for ME --- for Snowbunny, for EACH of you.

...because of love...

In John15, Jesus said: "Greater love has NO man, than to lay down his life for his friends; and you ARE My friends, if you do what I command."

This is what the Cross was about; ultimate love, that He laid down His life for us.

That's the end of depression --- faith. It is recognition that He has a magnificent plan for EACH of us. He is the Creator, He made me --- He knows what will make me happy. In Matt7 Jesus says: "Which of you, if your son asks for a fish, you will not give him a snake, will you? Or if he asks for a loaf of bread, you will not give him a rock, will you? If you being (by nature) evil know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in Heaven give to those who ASK?"

Depression, despair --- do require medical intervention. AND, they also require falling to our knees before God, that He will indwell us, and that His joy will become ours.

The more we seek Him, the more His Sonlight will pervade our souls and chase away the rainclouds.

That's a fact.

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wait a min. r u saying that u were the one that wrote that article?!? that's cool. i enjoyed reading it but i didn't see anybody condemning universalism??? so i'm confused. i read the whole thing. i enjoyed it alot.

universalmessenger said:

hum.... lol.... unless u two can prove all of these false allegations- babob and friction- they will remain as lies from this point forward. so i'm not gonna waste my valuable time going back in forth with this petty mess. the only thing i can suggest to the both of u is that ya'll both need to reread this thread. ty. GOD bless.

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Ack. I told myself I would never do this, but I think it's time to make use of that ignore feature. Byebye for a little bit.

MessianicJewishGuy said:

People are puting faith into Churchianity.

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yea i agree. this is off topic. my aim is not to discuss how it came to b. everyone has a conspiracy theory for that. all i'm saying is that we just need to address this issue in the present moment.

universalmessenger said:

hum.... lol.... unless u two can prove all of these false allegations- babob and friction- they will remain as lies from this point forward.

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WorldFriction said:

Ack. I told myself I would never do this, but I think it's time to make use of that ignore feature. Byebye for a little bit.

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lol ur already ignoring me. from day one u've done nothing but distort everything i've had to say, plus u constantly lie on me 2. so apparently u can not correctly read the words that's coming up on the screen or u choose to ignore certain facts and details in my posts in order to engage in confrontation. i say it's the latter, don't u think??? and i find it funny that i had asked u to show me proof of ur false allegations but u DON'T and that's ur ONLY response.

all i can say is:

universalmessenger said:

...to avoid that situation simply ask that person "when did i say that???" then u will prove who the liar is in any given situation. ty.

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peace sista. GOD bless.

U.M stop derailing the thread and making this about your opinions about meds okay? Not only is it unfair to the OP but I feel its dangerous to suggest that just prayer & faith can cure depression. It can't. I know...I have it.

for you Annette. If you want to talk,rant, or whatever you need PM me. I also have other contact information that I do not put on my profile that you can use to talk. I will agree with my hubby Sidhe, talking to a therapist does help. Maybe going to some sort of support group that deals in what you are going through right now. Don't give up.

sidhe said:

*hugs for Annette*

Speaking to a therapist or psychiatrist can really do a world of good.

Trust me. I know.

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MessianicJewishGuy said:

Lets do.

Seriously everyone: Back to the Topic. Pronto. (Not J/K)

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Ben johnson said:

Pearson was a "local guy" here; ran "Higher Dimensions Church". When he bought into Universalism, he lost his congregation, then the building. A large part of the text I wrote overthrows Universalism; when it's published, he and I are gonna have a talk.

"Loving ourselves", is opposed to Christianity; the commandment "love others as you love yourselves", is NOT a command to "love ourselves". Our self-worth (as I said earlier in this thread), is based on the fact that HE loves us. Nothing more.

Of ourselves, we are worthless; wretched sinners. I cannot be righteous --- all my righteousness is as filthy rags to Him.

This is why the "essence of Christianity" is so important.

Jesus died for ME --- for Snowbunny, for EACH of you.

...because of love...

In John15, Jesus said: "Greater love has NO man, than to lay down his life for his friends; and you ARE My friends, if you do what I command."

This is what the Cross was about; ultimate love, that He laid down His life for us.

That's the end of depression --- faith. It is recognition that He has a magnificent plan for EACH of us. He is the Creator, He made me --- He knows what will make me happy. In Matt7 Jesus says: "Which of you, if your son asks for a fish, you will not give him a snake, will you? Or if he asks for a loaf of bread, you will not give him a rock, will you? If you being (by nature) evil know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in Heaven give to those who ASK?"

Depression, despair --- do require medical intervention. AND, they also require falling to our knees before God, that He will indwell us, and that His joy will become ours.

The more we seek Him, the more His Sonlight will pervade our souls and chase away the rainclouds.

That's a fact.

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Thanks, you three. Annette is lucky to have such supportive people like y'all on her side.

Sorry for contributing to the thread derailment. Glad that's over with!

Mrs.Sidhe said:

U.M stop derailing the thread and making this about your opinions about meds okay? Not only is it unfair to the OP but I feel its dangerous to suggest that just prayer & faith can cure depression. It can't. I know...I have it.

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wow i see u also have chosen to ignore the true facts and decided to distort the details and lie on me, as well, in order to engage in confrontation. i'm sorry baiting doesn't work on me. i thought everybody knew this by now oh well. i will repost MY ACTUAL STATEMENTS, now, in order to clear up the confusion. in order to distinguish the truth from the lies.....

universalmessenger said:

..... i never said don't take any medication. PERIOD..... clearly had she already decided that an endless supply of prescription medications and counseling were the ONLY WAY to go then she wouldn't be in here looking for alternative solutions. and that's all i'm doing here. providing her with one. i'm saying b4 u think that's the final answer try to look at it from another angel first. that's it. i never implied that GOD and prayer is the solution here. i'm saying maybe ur faith is NOT allowing u to love urself and this is the cause of ur depression.

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GOD bless sista'. peace.

u got to find the cause before u can find the cure or else ur doing nothing more then treating the symptoms. that's all i was suggesting to snowbunny. how is that harmful??? that's the best way to end depression.

Whatever UM. Everyone has read your posts in this thread. We all know everything else you said.

Prayer and faith aren't going to fix the cause of depression. Talking with a support group/person or a therapist will help in addition to treating the symptoms. And you don't end depression. Its a chemical imbalance. Please stop spouting notions that are absolutely untrue and just try offering your support to SnowBunny!

Mrs.Sidhe said:

U.M stop derailing the thread and making this about your opinions about meds okay? Not only is it unfair to the OP but I feel its dangerous to suggest that just prayer & faith can cure depression. It can't. I know...I have it.

for you Annette. If you want to talk,rant, or whatever you need PM me. I also have other contact information that I do not put on my profile that you can use to talk. I will agree with my hubby Sidhe, talking to a therapist does help. Maybe going to some sort of support group that deals in what you are going through right now. Don't give up.

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I understand the situation here, but the point of the matter is that we should trust in God more than man, pharmaceutical technology, and even high paying pyschiatrists. I understand though for some people depression and other mental diseases are overwhelming. I am not denying that.

Many fundamentalist Christians will say mental diseases are result of demonic forces. I don't buy that, but the fact of the matter is we are all saying God is powerless in these situations. The church I have attended has a healing ministry, but you are right not all people get healed. It is the will of God for certain people to get healed. For instance, one of our church members had cancer, and she became healed because of divine healing. However, a newcomer who came to our church had cancer, but my pastor through all his effort and prayer could not heal him. We had one women who was suffering from depression, but after constant prayer and intercession, she had no more depression. My cousin who also goes to our church also has depression, but cannot get rid of it because prayer is just not working.

The point I am saying is that Universal Messenger's approach is right, but it is an option that Annette has a right to listen to. If she instead needs therapy, then let her choose it. Maybe God wants her to go through therapy first. But for people suddenly rush and say, "Oh Annette you have severe mental problems and you need to take serious medication" does not sound encouraging for her either. It is as if you are all saying she needs to check herself in an asylum. I have known Annette for quite some time, and I never sensed mental problems. Now Mumbai knows her better than all of us, so I will take her word on some issues, but again I find it appaling Christians and even godly people will claim God is powerless in these situations.

The best thing to do is not post any more in this thread, and leave Annete alone. She has a family, and the most important thing is she needs support from her family and they need to work things out together. All of us arguing about what is the best solution for her is not making her any better especially if one side says, "divine healing" and other side says "mental therapy". Let her choose, but let's not try to prove which solution is wrong. That is the thing, neither is wrong. It's all about what works best for her, and only God knows.

Peace and God bless.

Mrs.Sidhe said:

Whatever UM. Everyone has read your posts in this thread. We all know everything else you said.

Prayer and faith aren't going to fix the cause of depression. Talking with a support group/person or a therapist will help in addition to treating the symptoms. And you don't end depression. Its a chemical imbalance. Please stop spouting notions that are absolutely untrue and just try offering your support to SnowBunny!

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a chemical imbalance is NOT the only thing that could lead to depression. plz. there r numerous factors involved. let's b realistic. if a mother loses her child in an untimely manner she could go into a state of depression. hypochondriacs, i believe in general r depressed, yet they r completely fine and imagine all of their symptoms. the list goes on and on and on. ur information is not correct.

http://www.helpguide.org/mental/depression_signs_types_diagnosis_treatment.htm

czach8 said:

I understand the situation here, but the point of the matter is that we should trust in God more than man, pharmaceutical technology, and even high paying pyschiatrists. I understand though for some people depression and other mental diseases are overwhelming. I am not denying that.

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Of course we should trust God more than man. Nobody is telling Annette to just pop pills for no reason. Please go back and read my post in which I responded with steps to take.

Many fundamentalist Christians will say mental diseases are result of demonic forces. I don't buy that, but the fact of the matter is we are all saying God is powerless in these situations.

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Nobody has said that. Not once.

The church I have attended has a healing ministry, but you are right not all people get healed. It is the will of God for certain people to get healed. For instance, one of our church members had cancer, and she became healed because of divine healing. However, a newcomer who came to our church had cancer, but my pastor through all his effort and prayer could not heal him. We had one women who was suffering from depression, but after constant prayer and intercession, she had no more depression. My cousin who also goes to our church also has depression, but cannot get rid of it because prayer is just not working.

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That's all well and good, but from what I know of her situation it is not working. Counseling will not hurt her, and that should be the first thing she does. However, if one is depressed enough to require meds, the doctor will know better than anyone else. It's their job.

The point I am saying is that Universal Messenger's approach is right, but it is an option that Annette has a right to listen to.

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Of course she has a right to listen to it, but to pretend that it's good advice is a terrible thing to do. And considering how badly UM has harassed Annette in the past, I highly doubt that she will take UM's advice. Praise God!

If she instead needs therapy, then let her choose it. Maybe God wants her to go through therapy first. But for people suddenly rush and say, "Oh Annette you have severe mental problems and you need to take serious medication" does not sound encouraging for her either.

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Nobody has said that; it would be reprehensible. Please don't twist our words. I've been there and so have many others who have posted. Please do not undermine this by distorting what we've said.

It is as if you are all saying she needs to check herself in an asylum.

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Not at all! First of all, there are no asylums in our area. That is factually incorrect. There are psychiatric treatment facilities - I've checked myself into them - but they are for very, very severe cases of very severe mental illnesses. I would NEVER say anything like that. Please stop this.

I have known Annette for quite some time, and I never sensed mental problems. Now Mumbai knows her better than all of us, so I will take her word on some issues, but again I find it appaling Christians and even godly people will claim God is powerless in these situations.

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And I find it unacceptable that you would try to undermine her struggles by misrepresenting what we've said. Nobody has said that God is powerless. God is omnipotent. However, sometimes He intends for us to reach out for help. To name a few, Sidhe, Mrs.Sidhe, Kyle, Alan, Baobobtree and myself this from experience.

Peace and God bless.

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I wish you the same. Seriously. If any of this came off as harsh, I apologize in advance, but I don't like it when people put words in my mouth.

As I've said, I like you fine, and in the culture of our (yours and mine) home country, mental illness is frowned upon. However, we've been raised differently (I, for one, was adopted by 4th generation Americans, both of whom have suffered from depression and one of whom has lived through the nightmare of her parents' alcohol addiction all her life), and have had different experiences that have shaped our views on the subject differently.

Take care.

Mrs.Sidhe said:

Whatever UM. Everyone has read your posts in this thread. We all know everything else you said.

Prayer and faith aren't going to fix the cause of depression. Talking with a support group/person or a therapist will help in addition to treating the symptoms. And you don't end depression. Its a chemical imbalance. Please stop spouting notions that are absolutely untrue and just try offering your support to SnowBunny!

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Thanks, Erica. This is wonderful advice. While I have no doubt that prayer will fix some depression and anxiety, for many people it needs to be done in addition to professional treatment.

WorldFriction said:

Of course we should trust God more than man. Nobody is telling Annette to just pop pills for no reason. Please go back and read my post in which I responded with steps to take.

Nobody has said that. Not once.

That's all well and good, but from what I know of her situation it is not working. Counseling will not hurt her, and that should be the first thing she does. However, if one is depressed enough to require meds, the doctor will know better than anyone else. It's their job.

Of course she has a right to listen to it, but to pretend that it's good advice is a terrible thing to do. And considering how badly UM has harassed Annette in the past, I highly doubt that she will take UM's advice. Praise God!

Nobody has said that; it would be reprehensible. Please don't twist our words. I've been there and so have many others who have posted. Please do not undermine this by distorting what we've said.

Not at all! First of all, there are no asylums in our area. That is factually incorrect. There are psychiatric treatment facilities - I've checked myself into them - but they are for very, very severe cases of very severe mental illnesses. I would NEVER say anything like that. Please stop this.

And I find it unacceptable that you would try to undermine her struggles by misrepresenting what we've said. Nobody has said that God is powerless. God is omnipotent. However, sometimes He intends for us to reach out for help. To name a few, Sidhe, Mrs.Sidhe, Kyle, Alan, Baobobtree and myself this from experience.

I wish you the same. Seriously. If any of this came off as harsh, I apologize in advance, but I don't like it when people put words in my mouth.

As I've said, I like you fine, and in the culture of our (yours and mine) home country, mental illness is frowned upon. However, we've been raised differently, and have had different experiences that have shaped our views on the subject differently.

Take care.

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Again, there is no need to discuss further about this until we hear from her. In the meantime, all I can do is pray because that is what gets me through the day, and that is all I have left in this life. This all I can do for Annette as of now. I am powerless to do anything else.

Peace.

czach8 said:

Again, there is no need to discuss further about this until we hear from her. In the meantime, all I can do is pray because that is what gets me through the day, and that is all I have left in this life. This all I can do for Annette as of now. I am powerless to do anything else.

Peace.

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I'll join you in that prayer. It's a great idea. NCR should form an interfaith prayer/positive energy chain or something. Awesome! Thanks for the inspiration.

I hope that my words weren't too abrasive this time around.

Mrs.Sidhe said:

Whatever UM. Everyone has read your posts in this thread. We all know everything else you said. Prayer and faith aren't going to fix the cause of depression. Talking with a support group/person or a therapist will help in addition to treating the symptoms. And you don't end depression. Its a chemical imbalance. Please stop spouting notions that are absolutely untrue and just try offering your support to SnowBunny!

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ur information is incorrect. depression can occur for a number a reasons. it is not just due to a chemical imbalance. http://www.helpguide.org/mental/depression_signs_types_diagnosis_treatment.htm

....and she wanted a solution to her problems and all ya'll prescribe for ur friend is medication and doctors then u tell her to get well soon. how is this a cure??? ya'll r using peek-a-boo logic instead of trying to earnestly help her. some of these comments in this thread might uplift Snowbunny's spirits for a moment. even a day or two. but since the root, the main cause, of all of her problems have never been established she can easily fall victim to depression all over again, unexpectedly. it could even become a never ending cycle. that's y i'm encouraging her to find the SOURCE before the CURE. if it's a chemical imbalance then treat it with medications. if it's emotional then we can help her work through her emotional baggage. if it's spiritual we can also help her with that as well. but first we need to find out the root cause of her depression b4 we can find the cure. that's all i'm saying.

peace.

WorldFriction said:

I'll join you in that prayer. It's a great idea. NCR should form an interfaith prayer/positive energy chain or something. Awesome! Thanks for the inspiration.

I hope that my words weren't too abrasive this time around.

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Sister, what inspired me in this thread is that we all got together to help someone in need despite our religious beliefs. Let us transcend this thread, and have a prayer thread for not just Annette, but for the rest of world that is suffering. There is rampant poverty in the world, people are dying of AIDS, religious persecution, those battling drug addictions, the sex slave industry, underage prostitution, the elderly are left to die, terrorism, unjustified political wars, and especially those suffering mental diseases.

There is also a peace prayer thread going on right now in NCR, and I am disappointed that most of religious people here do not even have the humility to offer a prayer. We all talk about God, we all argue about God, but we never have the sense to come together in prayer. This is the reason why NCR never ends it's hostility and differences. We need prayers there too. No one is asking a Christian to invoke the name Allah nor is anyone asking a Muslim to invoke the name Jesus. Just please say something because in the end, our actions speak louder than our words.

Peace.

Snowbunny said:

hola

i am sorry to burden anyone with this... but i am plagued by hopelessness. i feel like a failure as a woman, i have pushed my husband and family away... i feel ugly and useless... i think i am losing my faith, prayer has not relieved anything and i truly feel alone in the world... i want to give up

has anybody experienced this or does anybody know how to pass through this?

gracias

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Hi Snowbunny,

I could just say "been there, done that, got the tshirt", but I think I can do better than that.

For me, the worst thing about depression is that as badly as I know I need to do someething, to change something, to get help, to tell people in my life how bad things are, the depression itself just sucks all energy and desire to move, to talk, to be around people at all. I hit a very bad low point about 1.5 years ago and it wan't until the depression was combined with panic attacks over how the inertial drift of not doing anything was starting to affect my job, my family, my kids - and that it could have bad impacts on my kids' futures if I didn't pull out of it that I finally picked up the phone and made a call to my doctor. I was referred to a psychiatrist and a psychologist so that I could work on my mental outlook from several different directions at once.

In my case, I needed medication for a few months, but was able to discontinue meds (for depression, anxiety, and insomnia) as I started to improve.

Depression makes us want to pull away from people and to stay locked up inside our heads. The internet can look like a healthy outlet because we can interact with people, but it's a pale comparison to real life interactions. We might smile or laugh at something funny, but it's nothing like the smile and laugh that real people - or even a movie - can provoke.

And smiling and laughing are very good medicine.

My doctor recommended that I find reasons to be outside in the early evening when neighborhoods tend to buzz a little. People are walking their dogs, checking their mail, gardening, playiing with their children after work, and even if we don't know them well, the "hello's" and friendly waves help to feel connected. I would take a glass of water or cup of tea and sit on the porch with my dog and just feel and soak up the energy of the people who live in my neighborhood.

It was scary how long it had been since I'd even seen many of them.

My return to real life was filled with little moments like that that helped me to feel connected again - to start caring, to see something funny or experience something interesting and want to tell someone about it.

The hardest thing was telling my DH I was depressed and anxious. By then, he was very frustrated by my lack of interest in doing ANYTHING at all as a family, by my lack of followthrough if I started a chore or a project, by my inability to remember to make important, critical phone calls, or send emails to my kids' teachers when they were having difficulty in school.

But, he understood when I came home the day of my first appointment with the psychologist. He was sad that I hadn't been able to even tell him I made the appointment beforehand, but he was completely supportive, and helped me stay anchored over the next several months when I would sometimes start to slide back into the tarpit of despair.

Make a phone call to your doctor. Do it today. Just tell him/her that you're feeling depressed and anxious and that it's affecting many areas of your life. That's the first step. It doesn't happen all at once after that, but it's the beginning of many small steps that will take you back into the sunshine.

And talk to your husband as soon as you feel able. He will be your biggest ally in overcoming your depression.

Raven