Honor

[Received]

From Not by Genes Alone:

"...psychologists Richard Nisbett and Dov Cohen argue that the [American] South is more violent than the [American] North because southern people have culturally acquired beliefs about personal honor that are different from their northern counterparts. Southerners, they argue, believe more strongly than Northerners that a person's reputation is important and worth defending even at great cost. As a consequence, arguments and confrontations that lead to harsh words or minor scuffles in Amherst or Ann Arbor often escalate to lethal violence in Asheville or Austin."

As a Texan I find this unambiguously true, and partly for this reason I'm against identifying myself as a Texan in the sense that I follow Texas values. What do you think of this quotation? It confirms for me that honor is anti-Christian at the least, anti-utilitarian at the most. Honor in southern concepts relates to reputation, and concern with reputation is base. But I think there is an error in saying that a person who vies for his own reputation is necessarily honorable. Honor transcends reputation; reputation as a value is the enemy.

?

 

[gengwall]

From Not by Genes Alone:

"...psychologists Richard Nisbett and Dov Cohen argue that the [American] South is more violent than the [American] North because southern people have culturally acquired beliefs about personal honor that are different from their northern counterparts. Southerners, they argue, believe more strongly than Northerners that a person's reputation is important and worth defending even at great cost. As a consequence, arguments and confrontations that lead to harsh words or minor scuffles in Amherst or Ann Arbor often escalate to lethal violence in Asheville or Austin."

As a Texan I find this unambiguously true, and partly for this reason I'm against identifying myself as a Texan in the sense that I follow Texas values. What do you think of this quotation? It confirms for me that honor is anti-Christian at the least, anti-utilitarian at the most. Honor in southern concepts relates to reputation, and concern with reputation is base. But I think there is an error in saying that a person who vies for his own reputation is necessarily honorable. Honor transcends reputation; reputation as a value is the enemy.

?

I can't help but think of the opening scenes in Gone With the Wind. On the other hand, Burr and Hamilton were, I believe, northerners.

 

[GrayCat]

I can see that being the case for some southerners from my visits down there and what we;ve studied in School. And religion tends to get involved too for people there sometimes. And some Southern places still fly the Confederate flag.

I believe being proud of who you are culturally is fine, as long as it doesn't become too militant, harmful to other people, or fascist in any way like the groups of Nazis were.

 

[Verv]

Really awesome topic.

The same is true on global levels -- many countries have different standards that lead to different behavior. Hispanics often believe similarly to Texans and are more likely to escalate things, that is why often times there is more gang-like behavior amongst impoverished Mexicans.

Honor is something that should not be defined by violence. Honorable people prove it by their dignity and composure; fighting is hardly dignified or composed.

I find it superior to shrug things off and go your own way, taking the higher road. Fighting proves nothing.

There are incredibly unscrupulous people in the people who could beat the majority of people in fist fights, but does that suddenly make them honorable?

 

[Received]

I wouldn't say so. It's fortunate about certain terms that they etymologically connote positivity, rather than just value-empty words. Honor is based in glory and dignity. If it weren't, I'd say honor is just what people make it out to be -- like many other terms. But honor can't be what it is if findings indicate negative utility -- bad psychological and biological effects (y'know, killing people).

Texans are particularly stupid -- and this stupidity is, sadly, largely determined by: how huge Texas is. There's reputation right there. I wonder if state-affiliated reputation leads to individual insistence on reputation? All it would take is a person of lower intelligence to confuse reputation with honor, and there you have it: honor suddenly means reputation, don't-screw-with-my-namedness.