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Homosexuals: I'm calling you out!!! Prove to me...

Polycarp_fan

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The elephant, emperor penguin, and etc, how do they go about repenting their sinful ways? Does the rest of the natural world which displays homosexual behaivor also need to repent?

Comparing humans that engage in same-gender attempts to mate, to what unreasoning beasts do, may be the best angle of all to see that they need to repent of engaging in the behavior. (Animals see no need of toilets either. If you catch my parable.) It needs to be pointed out that animals that engage in same-gender sex acts are only "attempting" to have intercourse. In fact - a biological fact - they are not. Even animals are doing what is deviant, even if they do not have the mental powers to reason it out. Also, "animals" mate out in the open. Are we too celebrate that sexual proclivity too? So, seeing "homosexual" behavior as a sin is quite logical and of course, it is in keeping with the New Testament witness of the Apostles and disciples. And now we see why Jesus went to the obvious when teaching about what a marriage "is" that divorce breaks up.

But I do agree with many here on how is the Gay versus the ressurection thing is a connected? I know many gays and lesbians that believe the resurrection happend.

A better question would have been "Why do female homosexuals call themselves "Lesbians?" The woman they follow (Sappho) was married to a man and had a child by this man, and, as legand has it Sappho killed herself over unrequited love she had for a younger man. At best, Sappho was a female pederast that had lustful designs on her young female students. Not exactly a great role model for a supposedly "feminst" cause.

And why homosexual men want to be called "gay" escapes me completely.
 
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Polycarp_fan

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It's good to be alive, and it's good to be gay and to know that God loves all of us. And now we can marry legally in California. Life is sweet.

A secular "marriage." The world has seen all of this before says Jesus:


"Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all.
"It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all.
 
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Paconious

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Of course homosexuals arent having sex to procreate, they know they cant. They are attempting to enjoy their sexuality, which is in parity with the animal kingdom. And your wrong about "attempting" to have intercourse. They attemp full penetration, congruent with human behaivor. And male penguins have been observed to mate for life. There goes your biological fact.

Even animals are doing what is deviant, even if they do not have the mental powers to reason it out.

Following what i presume is your own paradigm, what does that say about your creator? Animals been naturally deviant and all, the fall did it?


I have no idea what your claim is here. Only thing i got is 'homosexuality is a sin.' Which brings me to my next point; If homosexuality is a sin, then how come there are physiological as well as anatomical simmilarities among gays and lesbians. I posted this before with no reply. How come certain brain feautures in gays are larger? Could it just be that Homosexuality is as natural as the chromosome which gave you the skin color you posses? If not, i'd love to hear an explanation.



Wrong again. The word lesbian comes from the island in which Sappho lived. The island of Lesbos, which exists in present day Greece. The legend which you mention is just that, a legend. The birth of the legend is credited to individuals attempting to portray her as a heterosexual. Why is it so much fun to defame homosexuals? I guess if you live your life by a book filled with myth you get a kick out of it.
 
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Ohioprof

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I am not frightened or worried. I enjoy my life, love God, live well, and raise my daughter to be a caring person. I have no fear of the sky falling. Life is good, and we have God to thank.
 
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Polycarp_fan

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I am not frightened or worried. I enjoy my life, love God, live well, and raise my daughter to be a caring person. I have no fear of the sky falling. Life is good, and we have God to thank.

And, that's what the quotes of Jesus convey. I'm sure Noah's townsfolk and the Sodomites said similar things. Good luck to you. I'm not saying anything other than presenting the "Biblical" perspective without altering it. I like your style here.
 
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Ohioprof

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And, that's what the quotes of Jesus convey. I'm sure Noah's townsfolk and the Sodomites said similar things. Good luck to you. I'm not saying anything other than presenting the "Biblical" perspective without altering it. I like your style here.

Thanks. My daughter does not think I am stylish.
 
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Polycarp_fan

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That animals are unreasoning beasts? I'm not sorry that I hold humans to a higher standard. A lifetime of aberrant and unfruitful sexual behavior is quite the waste. Darwinian-wise. I think on a higher level.

Following what i presume is your own paradigm, what does that say about your creator? Animals been naturally deviant and all, the fall did it?

Or a congenital defect. I'm saying it was the defect. Animals don't reason things out.


Who would reply to an absurd position? There is no gay gene, no concrete evidence for homosexual propensities other than "people and animals engage in it.

How come certain brain feautures in gays are larger?

Uhh yeah. Talk about urban legend.

Could it just be that Homosexuality is as natural as the chromosome which gave you the skin color you posses? If not, i'd love to hear an explanation.

I can reason out that my skin color and my physiology are immutable facts. I cannot claim to be a native american for precisely the same reason I cannot have sex in places (on or in my body) that are not biologically meant for sexual intercourse. Homosexual behavior is not sexual intercourse by definition. I can use my powers of reason to understand right from wrong on that. All it takes is a mirror. I'll leave my Bible on the desk.

Wrong again. The word lesbian comes from the island in which Sappho lived.

Then why aren't female homosexuals calling themselves Sapphoians? Lesbians is a bigtime misnomer. And why would anyone want to be named after a pederast? An adult "teacher" lusting after innocent young students.

The island of Lesbos, which exists in present day Greece.

The vast majority of greeks (in present day Greece) do not approve of homosexuality. As it was also in ancient Greece.


How then, can ANYONE portray her as a homosexual, if all we have is myth? Doesn't say much for the "L" in the GLBT community. Of course, now we know why GLSEN is in our public schools. You know, in ancient Greece, there were laws forbidding pederasts from going into schools (gymnasiums).
 
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Polycarp_fan

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Nah. Just scientific fact. Make sure you pay attention to the last line.

Fcats are a funny thing. Here today, and not necessarily here tomorrow.

Googled "is there a gay gene" just for kicks. I'll post this websites offerings: queerbychoice.com/gaygenelinks (.html)

Gay Gene Critique Links
"Biology, My Ass" by Karla Mantilla, from the lesbian-feminist journal off our backs: a women's news journal, 1999. "Of course it's a choice—how could it not be?"
"Rejecting the Gay Brain (and Choosing Homosexuality)" by queer writer Joe Sartelle, from Bad Subjects, No. 14, May 1994. "I think that the popularity of biological accounts of homosexual desire among gay people has to be understood as a way of coping with deeply-rooted homophobia. What else can it be when we defend ourselves by saying things like, "Do you think anybody would choose to be this way?" This is a defensive position, one that implicitly accepts that there is something wrong with homosexuality, that it is indeed an abnormality which demands to be explained."
"No Easy Link Between Genes, Behavior: DNA Studies Dash Quest for Easy Answers. Genome's Link to Behavior Hard to Prove" by Keay Davidson, San Francisco Chronicle, Feb 13, 2001. More than 90% of the human genome has been sequenced by the International Human Genome Project, yet no "gay gene" has been found. Why might that be?
"In Search of the 'Gay Gene'" by Jack Lucentini, The Washington Post, p. A15, February 19, 2001. Here's a pro-"gay gene" article with a twist: it argues that the "gay gene" (or rather, the biological capacity for same-sex attraction) exists in most or all human beings instead of just the minority who consider themselves "gay."
"Sexual Orientation: Binaries and Definition Problems" by Pierre Tremblay and Richard Ramsay, Faculty of Social Work, University of Calgary, from their collaborative work The Social Construction of Male Homosexuality and Related Suicide Problems: Research Proposals for the Twenty-First Century, 2000.
"How Do You Define 'Sexual Orientation'?" by Randall L. Sell, excerpted from his article "Defining and Measuring Sexual Orientation: A Review," Archives of Sexual Behavior,Vol. 26 No. 6, pp. 643-658, December 1997.
"Exploding the Gene Myth: A Conversation with Ruth Hubbard" by Frank Aqueno of QueerByChoice, 1997. Ruth Hubbard of the Council for Responsible Genetics discusses the "gay gene" theory with Frank Aqueno of QueerByChoice and John Lawson of Tulane University, 1997.
The Science Section of Frank Aqueno's Queer by Choice website.
"Do Genes Determine Whether We Are Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, or Straight?"This is a great essay from the Council for Responsible Genetics—a nonprofit organization that critiques the ethics of all kinds of genetic research, from cloning to cancer research to the search for a "gay gene." These people definitely know their biology, and their essay provides a reasonably thorough explanation of some of the things that are wrong with the claims that people can be born with a genetic tendency to develop any particular sexual orientation."History of Sexual Orientation Research" from the Robert Koch Institut in Berlin, Germany
"Genetics and Homosexuality" from The Gene Letter by GeneSage, November 1, 1996. "No conclusions can be drawn from studies relating genetics to sexual orientation, according to an October 30, 1996 panel at the American Society of Human Genetics (ASHG) annual meetings in San Francisco. Geneticist Neil Risch (Co-chair of the panel, with Frank Greenberg) warned against 'genetic determinism' on the basis of today's fragmentary and sometimes contradictory findings."
"The Biological Evidence Challenged" by William Byne, from Scientific American, Vol. 270, pp. 50-55, May 1994
"The Ethics of Genetic Research on Sexual Orientation" by Udo Schüklenk, Edward Stein, Jacinta Kerin, and William Byne, from Hastings Center Report, Vol. 27 No. 4, pp. 6-13, 1997
Book review of Edward Stein's The Mismeasure of Desire: The Science, Theory, and Ethics of Sexual Orientation, 1999, by andrea l.t. peterson, from Outlines, The Voice of Chicago's Gay and Lesbian Community, November 17, 1999
"Science Tries to Find Deviancy in Our Faces, Ears and Genes" by Jeff Grabmeier, Ohio State University. A review of the book Deviant Bodies: Critical Perspectives on Difference in Science and Popular Culture, edited by Jennifer Terry and Jacqueline Urla, 1996.
The Medicalization of Homosexuality—a quick definition by Andrew Wikholm of gayhistory.com
"Sexing the Body: How Biologists Construct Human Sexuality" by Anne Fausto-Sterling, 1999

The following three articles provide three different critiques of Simon LeVay's 1991 "gay brain" study.
  • "A Dangerous American Pastime" by Udo Schüklenk, from Radical Philosophy, Vol. 87, pp. 48-49, Melbourne, Australia, 1998. A review of Simon LeVay's book Queer Science: The Use and Abuse of Research into Homosexuality.
  • "Born That Way?" by Roy Porter, from The New York Times, August 11, 1996. A review of Simon LeVay's book Queer Science: The Use and Abuse of Research into Homosexuality and Chandler Burr's book A Separate Creation: The Search for the Biological Origins of Sexual Orientation.
The following three articles explore three very different angles for critiquing Dean Hamer's 1993 "gay gene" study, which was investigated by the U.S. Office of Research Integrity for possible falsification of data. The outcome of that investigation is unclear, but an assistant who worked with Dean Hamer on the study has accused Hamer of falsifying data, and an initial investigation by the National Institutes of Health found the evidence against Hamer substantial enough that they referred it to the highest federal investigative level.
  • "Gene Scam?" by Bill Andriette, from the queer magazine The Guide, Boston, Massachusetts, January 1999—discusses the accusations that Hamer falsified his data.
  • "Fading Genes" by Steve C., from Bi Community News, No. 12, U.K., October 1996—discusses the glaring flaws that remain in the study regardless of whether any data was falsified.
  • "The Self-Sufficiency Gene" by Dean Hamer, excerpted from his book The Science of Desire: The Search for the Gay Gene and the Biology of Behavior, 1994—discusses Dean Hamer's own alternative explanations for how his study might not indicate the existence of a "gay gene" even if there were no flaws in it at all.
A more recent "gay gene" study, published in April 1999 by Canadian researchers George Ebers and George Rice, attempted to duplicate Dean Hamer's results and failed. The six articles below provide some details on the Ebers and Rice study.
  • "Debunking Genetic Determinism and the 'Gay Gene'" by Simon Miller from Southern Cross Online, July 1999
  • "Where Did the Gay Gene Go? Study Finds No Evidence of Homosexuality in DNA" by Claudine Chamberlain from ABC News, April 22, 1999
  • "Study Questions Gene Influence on Male Homosexuality" by Erica Goode from the New York Times, April 23, 1999
  • "Doubt Cast on Gay Gene" from BBC News
  • "Discovery of 'Gay Gene' Questioned" by Ingrid Wickelgren from InSCIght, April 22, 1999
  • "Study Fails to Support Existence of a 'Gay Gene'" by Sue Goetinck from the Associated Press, April 23, 1999
"A Fan Writes: '...[T]here is no gay gene!...'" by Deborah Levinson, July 19, 1999. Responds to a homophobe's assertion that "there is no gay gene!!!!!!!!!!!!!" by saying simply, "Hello! Wake up! We don't care whether there is a gay gene. We don't care whether there are special lesbian ears. We don't care about anything beyond doing all that we can do to ensure equal treatment and rights in all aspects of life."
"Do You Take This Woman . . . : Electing Sex in the New Millennium" by Fabulana, from Wench, 1999. "Rather than seeing science as the Messiah for gay rights, casting light into the darkness and dispersing ignorance, wouldn’t it be prudent to remember that it was science that, until rather recently, classified homosexuality as a 'mental illness'?"
"Does a Short Index Finger Make You Gay?" by Timothy Noah, from MSN Chatterbox, March 30, 2000. "Chatterbox's Law of Biological Determinism: Conservatives believe that genes determine everything except homosexuality; liberals believe that genes determine nothing except homosexuality."
"Does Being a Jock Make a Man Gay?" by Timothy Noah, from MSN Chatterbox, March 1, 2001. One year after the article above, Chatterbox comments on a more recent study which found that longer index fingers correlate with greater athletic ability. Perhaps hanging out in locker rooms with a lot of mostly-naked members of the same sex tends to turn members of both genders queer? What a revelation!
"Lesbian Fingers: Discrimination Against Us Is Underlined in the Indelible Ink of Science" by Laurie Essig, from Salon.com, Oct. 16, 2000. "[T]he study believes that lesbians' mannish brains will naturally desire their opposite, which is to say, female bodies. Clearly a mannish brain could not be attracted to a mannish body any more than a girlish brain could be attracted to a girlish body because such attraction would be, oh lordy, same-sex attraction."
"Finding Cause for Homosexuality Not as Important as Learning to Accept It" by Kevyn Jacobs, from Kansas State Collegian, April 3, 1995. "In the end, I suspect that objective studies of homosexuality will not be fully possible until the ideological war is over. Until then, skepticism is the name of the game. All research is suspect."
"Will a Gay Gene Get Us Anywhere?" by Nicholas Yee. "Even if a gay gene were found, this would not grant homosexuality moral or social acceptability because it could still be regarded as a defect or an abnormality. . . . Racism has not diminished because we know that blackness or whiteness is genetic. Sexism exists even though we know that sex is genetic. Since finding a gay gene will neither make homosexuality morally or socially acceptable nor will it diminish homophobia, it is clearly the wrong place to be looking."
"My Ears!?" by Deborah Levinson, March 1998. "Personally, I think it's all absurd. I don't care whether there is a 'gay gene,' I don't care whether my inner ear is different. I don't believe that any of this matters in the ultimate scheme of things. What does matter is that I am who I am—and I am entitled to the same rights and privileges as everybody else."
"UC Berkeley Psychologist Finds Concrete Evidence in Rats that Sexual Experience Alters the Nervous System" by Pat McBroom, U.C. Berkeley press release, October 20, 1997.
"Are People 'Born Gay?'" by Steve C. & Rob G. One of the most thorough analyses available on the internet of the many flaws in the biological research so far. A shame about the writers being so pathetically heterosexist. *sigh* But really, they do provide a lot of information about the biological studies that you won't find anywhere else on the internet.
 
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David Brider

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It's good to be alive, and it's good to be gay and to know that God loves all of us. And now we can marry legally in California. Life is sweet.

Hi there Ohioprof! Not seen you around lately. Hope you're well.
 
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Ohioprof

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Hi there Ohioprof! Not seen you around lately. Hope you're well.

Good to see you too. I got really busy with work and parenting, and I simply was not able to keep posting. I stopped even reading the forums because that would have drawn me into posting again. Now things have settled down. My daughter graduated from kindergarten, which was a thrill.

All is well with us. Christian Forums seem to have changed some. And for some reason my blog has disappeared, and I don't know what happened to it.

The latest developments in California are terrific. I am so glad to see our progress. It's a thrill to see Del Martin and Phyllis Lyon marry legally after 55 years together. They are true pioneers, now in their 80s.
 
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Polycarp_fan

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I found you a more up-to-date article. It used a fairly small sample size, so it is not conclusive, but it is yet another study that points to a biological basis for sexuality.

First, let me say, I do not want to fight or battle. I am not condemning nor judging anyone for their birth defects or their birth normality. Sex acts are sex acts, good, bad, indifferent, natural or unnatural. Etc., etc., etc..

From your referenced article:

Brain scans have provided the most compelling evidence yet that being gay or straight is a biologically fixed trait.

AND:

The scans reveal that in gay people, key structures of the brain governing emotion, mood, anxiety and aggressiveness resemble those in straight people of the opposite sex.

Yet, the powers of reasoning seem well intact. Making choices is always reality. With the accompanying consequences. I notice that the studies do not declare that homosexuality takes away rational thought process. Does it? A normally formed body points to sexual orientation.

And of course, there are studies that have shown that brains and genetics do not have any bearing on sexual tastes. "As a Christian" the evidence seems to prove to me that "original sin" is definately born into people. Just like the Bible posits. Science always the friend of the Biblical writers.

Like ADD and ADHD, a person is still left with choices to make no matter the congenital abnormality present.

Be careful of who you reference. LeVay is a long time "gay activist."

/members.aol.com/slevay/page22.html#_Genes

Google LeVay. As usual he's a controversial figure.

I can't post links due to my few postings status.

I also notice, that the GLBT community seems to reject the ol' "they were born that way" tag, because they know that that is also a detriment to the way they will be treated. They want choice to rule the day.

To return to the point of this blog, the original premise was to get "homosexuals" to see Biblical truth and go from there. "For Christians" original sin does not excuse away sinning. Ever person is admonished to "make the right choice."

It is clear from the Biblical record that there is no support or celebration of same-gender sexual unions. Not even David and Jonathan.
 
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IzzyPop

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So they just have to suck it up and deal with it? They do not get to love the person they want to love? Nice God, eh?

Furthermore, I don't care what the Bible says about marriage. It has no business being involved in secular law. So if the only objection you can raise for same sex marriage not being legal is from the Bible, it is not a valid argument for non-Christians.
 
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Paconious

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In order to maintain your position, you have to divorce yourself from reality. Reality holds that homosexuals have a different hypothalamic structure than non-gays. Other brain structures which are bigger in women are also found large in gay men. Namely the anterior commisure. Gay men respond to stimuli differently than non gay men. I could go on and on. This isn't urban legend, its concrete science. Your assumptions regarding the subject is the only myth.
 
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TheManeki

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So much for Psalm 139:13-14

For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother's womb.
I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
your works are wonderful,
I know that full well.


You're fearfully and wonderfully made only if you were made straight, now.

Like ADD and ADHD, a person is still left with choices to make no matter the congenital abnormality present.
I didn't realize ADD and ADHD were sinful, too. Thanks for letting me know!
 
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plmarquette

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We can't make anyone do anything .... witchcraft, pride - Proverbs 6.18-24

We can demonstrate God's love, regardless of what side of this issue you are on, we can keep our mouth's shut and pray, we can love people (agape) for what they can be; we can ignore them as we do other people we neither like nor agree with ...

If you have aught with a brother, first make peace, then come to church ....for until you forgive your brother, I cannot help you .... Jesus , Lord's prayer , Ezekiel 3.18-24
 
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oneofthem

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Shield, i am suspecting you are either Fred Phelps, or of his "clan", or a non-Christian troll out to make us look like idiots.

But if you are none of those, and you are genuinely a Christian, look at the other side of the coin. Whilst the bible does acknowledge homosexuality is a sin, it is our brothers and sisters (in Christ) we are to hold accountable, not people who are not living with Jesus as Lord in their lives. We are to love and accept all people.

I can point my finger at you and say you are a judger, and for a human to judge another is a sin. You are judging a whole bunch of people and condemning them to hell. We are to preach the good news, not intimidate and scare people away from our faith. I can say to you that you will go to hell for the sin of judging others, but who is anyone to make that call except for God Himself?
 
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BigBadWlf

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One sees examples of this sort of arguing when one deals with racists. It is a common tactic of those who choose to hate others based on skin color to attempt to dehumanize blacks by trying to compare them to animals.

I never understand why bigots call themselves Christians
 
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