I was in the church seeker former and I noticed that a LCMS member said that the Synod does not ordain homosexuals, celebrate or otherwise. Is that true, and why?
Homosexuals and Ordination
- Thread starter Arcangl86
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I hadn't heard that. I would think if they are celibate they can be ordained. I don't see how it makes sense otherwise.
Now, with that said, it might be very difficult to find a congregation that would accept them. It would almost have to be a "special" mission of some sort.
Now, with that said, it might be very difficult to find a congregation that would accept them. It would almost have to be a "special" mission of some sort.
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So the LCMS does not ordain homosexuals at all? Why? I can understand not ordaining those who are sexually active, as they obviously are not repentant for their sins. But we are all sinners, so it seems odd to me to not ordain one type of sinner and not all the others.
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BryanW92
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You're splitting hairs since a non-practicing and never-practicing homosexual is just a person with perverse urges, just like any celibate heterosexual. Would you call yourself a homosexual if you had never engaged in a homosexual act and never planned to give it a try? I'm talking about people who self-identify as a homosexual.
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Note, I never said never practicing. And considering homosexual is about who you are attracted too, yes you can call yourself a homosexual even if you don't have sex with somebody of the same gender. By your logic, people who have never had sex and ever intend to can't say they are heterosexual. And I just realized that you aren't even Lutheran, so I'll go with the earlier answer given to me.
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Right. Homosexual practice is condemned outright. But for those who refrain, the position seems to be to treat them like any other. I can't find anything that explictly states a position on ordination of celibate homosexuals, but it seems to be implied in several places. For example:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...yFWvQAWE7yWeTtFIfWO27qw&bvm=bv.72938740,d.aWw
ILC affirms Bible's position on homosexual behavior | LCMS News & Information
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BryanW92
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I left the UMC earlier this summer and I've been bouncing between an LCMS church and a PCA church. So, I'm as much a Lutheran right now as I am anything else. By your own logic, I don't have to consumate a membership with a particular church to consider myself a part of that denomination (i.e. I have Lutheran feelings so I am one).
But, by my logic, I have attended and studied their doctrine and theology and history, so I functionally a Lutheran for now (i.e. I have done Lutheran things so I am one).
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It is my understanding that in both LCMS and LCC that a man who is homosexual, but recognizes it as a sin, repents and abstains or refrains from seeking a homosexual relationship may indeed be ordained; and from what I have been told, some have.
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I had the same reaction, then I realized that he probably left out a word. As amended below, the statement is a perfectly concise expression of the LCMS position:
"Unwed clergy are required to be celibate. [Homosexual] men cannot truly marry."
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Homosexuality is a sin just as any other. And we are all sinners. If a man understands the biblical teachings on the practice and conducts himself accordingly I wouldn't hold it against him any more than any other sinful inclination. If he does not, well I wouldn't think someone who is picking up women for one night stands or is in a sexual heterosexual relationship outside of marriage and sees no issue with it is qualified to be a Pastor either.
I took it as "men" in the plural, IE two men, can not truly marry one another. So that being the case it would be sex outside of marriage irregardless. I don't want to put words in Tangible's mouth though so please correct me if I am wrong.
I took it as "men" in the plural, IE two men, can not truly marry one another. So that being the case it would be sex outside of marriage irregardless. I don't want to put words in Tangible's mouth though so please correct me if I am wrong.
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Could be; I'm not sure.... the impression I got from my LCMS pastor is that homosexuals are not permitted to be ordained in the LCMS at all. I'd much prefer the rubric you state, I hope THAT is the case.
I'm at least uncomfortable with the ELCA's practice of ordaining practicing (I see that as willingly sinning) homosexuals. The point of whether they are "faithful" to the other man is nuts to me, the point is being faithful to Christ and to God's Word - not to a fellow sinner commiting the same wrong (by that 'logic' a rapist isn't sinning if he always rapes with one other, always sinning together).
I must admit, this is a troubling area for me. I have several gay and lesbian friends, and we have an openly gay person in our church. I know these people did not "choose" this anymore than I chose to be heterosexual, and they can't ignore their sexuality anymore than I can. I think Jesus loves these folks.... hey if He can love me, He can love ANYONE. The "gays" I know, I like. On the other hand, because I'm not married, I don't have sex (yup, I'm one of the oldest virgins on the planet - ain't too happy about that, lol). It ain't THAT hard, it CAN be done. I'm not denying who I am.... I'm just not acting on it. For many reasons, but among them is that I believe God's loving will is for sex to be in marriage (and although I have TRIED so very, very, very hard to convince myself that that's wrong, I've not yet succeeded). I DO have a point...... we can be honest about who we are, but we DO have control over what we do (especially in this..... sex actually requires very deliberate action and some forethought; unlike when some STUPID word floods out of my mouth and I can't catch it and put it back).
Well, sorry......
May all the blessings of this season of Lent be yours.....
Pax
- Josiah
.
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Speaking for myself, I am a celibate male with exclusively same-sex attractions. As a sinner justified by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, however, I do not consider myself to be a 'homosexual person', a 'gay person', or anything but a 'human person'. In the eyes of God, I am nothing but His Son.
Whether you want a man, a woman, or a goat, celibacy is celibacy. I do wish normal, healthy heterosexuals who oppose the ordination celibate homosexuals would understand that. What's in the deepest heart is visible only to God and -in most cases, though not all - to the sinner.
Most homosexuals are probably unable to control their attraction. That's not to say the condition is genetic; rather, that trauma, abuse, or neglect of early life caused great confusion in the mind & soul of the homosexual. I understand this from experience. I think most homosexuals shouldn't be ordained. It's not about the sexual attraction, per se, but more because they are supremely wounded people, and often not emotionally mature enough to be shepherds to a flock.
Those who overcome their wounds by the help of God are blessed indeed, and it will be known by their strength of will, nobility of spirit, and courage.
I would like to ask the LCC about this issue myself. I'll have to wait a while, though, since my first LCC Service will be on Sunday. Mustn't make bad impressions on the first of it.
Whether you want a man, a woman, or a goat, celibacy is celibacy. I do wish normal, healthy heterosexuals who oppose the ordination celibate homosexuals would understand that. What's in the deepest heart is visible only to God and -in most cases, though not all - to the sinner.
Most homosexuals are probably unable to control their attraction. That's not to say the condition is genetic; rather, that trauma, abuse, or neglect of early life caused great confusion in the mind & soul of the homosexual. I understand this from experience. I think most homosexuals shouldn't be ordained. It's not about the sexual attraction, per se, but more because they are supremely wounded people, and often not emotionally mature enough to be shepherds to a flock.
Those who overcome their wounds by the help of God are blessed indeed, and it will be known by their strength of will, nobility of spirit, and courage.
I would like to ask the LCC about this issue myself. I'll have to wait a while, though, since my first LCC Service will be on Sunday. Mustn't make bad impressions on the first of it.
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Speaking for myself, I am a celibate male with exclusively same-sex attractions. As a sinner justified by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, however, I do not consider myself to be a 'homosexual person', a 'gay person', or anything but a 'human person'. In the eyes of God, I am nothing but His Son.
Whether you want a man, a woman, or a goat, celibacy is celibacy. I do wish normal, healthy heterosexuals who oppose the ordination celibate homosexuals would understand that. What's in the deepest heart is visible only to God and -in most cases, though not all - to the sinner.
Most homosexuals are probably unable to control their attraction. That's not to say the condition is genetic; rather, that trauma, abuse, or neglect of early life caused great confusion in the mind & soul of the homosexual. I understand this from experience. I think most homosexuals shouldn't be ordained. It's not about the sexual attraction, per se, but more because they are supremely wounded people, and often not emotionally mature enough to be shepherds to a flock.
Those who overcome their wounds by the help of God are blessed indeed, and it will be known by their strength of will, nobility of spirit, and courage.
I would like to ask the LCC about this issue myself. I'll have to wait a while, though, since my first LCC Service will be on Sunday. Mustn't make bad impressions on the first of it.
I'm LCC
. I asked my former Pastor about this very thing. There are all sorts of temptations that we all face. According to a former Pastor of mine, celibacy is the only acceptable way for a Pastor to deal with this issue, and therefore a person with same sex attraction that has chosen celibacy can be a Pastor. Certainly, there is no issue with you attending and even becoming a member of one of our Congregations.What part of Canada are you from?
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I'm LCC
What part of Canada are you from?
I wasn't worried about becoming a congregant. Don't think that!
Most Christian churches today wouldn't be so ogre-like.I am from Halifax, N.S., and currently live there. From what I can see, there's only one ELCA church, and one small LCC mission.
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I wasn't worried about becoming a congregant. Don't think that!
I am from Halifax, N.S., and currently live there. From what I can see, there's only one ELCA church, and one small LCC mission.
The Maritime Missions and congregations are calling a "Circuit Rider" Pastor to serve them right now. My Pastor just recently declined a call to the Maritime Missions; he has been out there a number of times preaching over the last few years.
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He speaks very highly about the Congregations, missions and preaching stations in the East.The Maritime Missions and congregations are calling a "Circuit Rider" Pastor to serve them right now. My Pastor just recently declined a call to the Maritime Missions; he has been out there a number of times preaching over the last few years.
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The Bible also speaks out against slander, gossip, jealousy, lust, etc... If the Church were to exclude people with sinful inclinations from all positions of leadership, then there wouldn't be any candidates for any type of leadership. You can't just flip a switch and determine who you are sexually attracted to. You can choose if you want to act upon that or not. If you believe that sexual action between two men is sinful, and thus refrain from it, regardless of if you are sexually attracted to other men, wouldn't that be a good role model for the church?
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