EnemyPartyII
Well-Known Member
OK, cool.
Well, me and my partner are both Christians, I guess thats why we have such a great relationship, huh?
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OK, cool.Many great people marry for the right reasons and receive and give fulfillment in an honourable way. It's not carnal or lustful.
But when people of God marry, they have a totally other dimension to their relationship, which is awesome! God-centered marriages are how God created them to be, and are the most fulfilling and most successful.
And if reading the Bible and thinking about it enhances your life, that's great. I don't use the Bible as my scripture. I don't believe the Bible is the word of God. But if you do, and you find it a positive source of inspiration for you, wonderful.Thinking is always good. God encourages it.
Yeah and but isnt' it true that God also wants us to not be independent of Him? Not that we are robots or anything, but when I 'think for myself' and then use the bible as my standard of living, it acutally improves my way of thinking. The consequence is that God, not me, gets the glory. Yes, I reap the good seed I've sown, but in the long run, it's never for myself. It's for others as well.
Think about that.
How do you know this? You don't know anything about gay people's relationships, do you?Yes it does, Starlight. Disobedience is the order of the day in such people. They obey their flesh, not God.
My posts get reported regularly by people who think I am not a Christian. The moderators dismiss these reports.Yes but saved it also went where some of us Christians were reported by other Christians that we werent Christians as we believed differently than what another did...
I remember being reported many times for "Not" being a Christian...when indeed I am...just I didnt fit the persons model of one...
Anyhoo....nice to see you...hope all is well
I think the Bible has great value as a historical source and as literature. The Bible provides valuable information about how early Christians and Jews thought about God, about their lives, about creation, about morals. The Bible has been a great influence on many cultures, often in different ways. Also, much of the Bible is beautiful. I recite the 23rd psalm every evening for my daughter before bed, as my grandmother did with me when I was a child. It's beautiful and inspirational. I don't regard the Bible as the word of God or as inspired by God, but I do think that many of the writers of the various books had great insights and were wonderful writers.So then why have the bible at all?
Also, Christians continue to emerge with beliefs that many church leaders regard as heresy. The Universalists in the 19th century, whose tradition I carry on, were frequently denounced as heretics because they believed in universal salvation. They interpreted the Bible differently from most other Christians, but they definitely saw themselves as Christians.
Thanks for this and for all your thoughtful posts.Hi prof,
How does one consider themselves a Christian when they don't believe that a Christ ever existed? The statement contradicts itself. In your belief, if Jesus was not the Christ (messiah), then He is only a human prophet or teacher. And if that is the case, He cannot be called the "Christ", since He is not the messiah. Therefore the term "Christ"ian is contradictory to your beliefs.
Just trying to help.
Using the term "Christian" while not believing that the Christ exists/existed is misleading. If you are using it as a generalized term then possibly "Jesus Follower" applies better, as it defines anyone who follows Jesus, regardless of His divinity.Thanks for this and for all your thoughtful posts.
I don't believe in a messiah. I am a follower of Jesus. Many of the early Christians were also followers of Jesus, who focused on his teachings and his example, not on his death or his purported resurrection.
I agree completely, if one is strong in their faith, then they have nothing to fear from an open mind.People can and do argue over what makes someone a Christian. I don't regard those arguments as bad, except when people seek to exclude from the dialogue those with different beliefs.
Yes you can call yourself whatever you want, but when you define yourself into a category, it really should reflect your beliefs. If you want to avoid conflict with people who are less than understanding, then you can just generalize it.About 10 years ago, I shared my beliefs with our college chaplain, who is a Christian minister, and I asked him whether in his view I can legitimately call myself a Christian given the fact that my beliefs do not match those of many churches. He answered that yes, I can, and my beliefs are very similar to his. He said that there are many Christians who believe as I do. They are a minority of Christians, but they exist.
From this testimony, a descriptive definition that conveys their beliefs would be "Jesus Followers"Most Unitarian Universalist Christians seem to hold beliefs similar to mine, from what I can gather from surveys of people in our faith. Two summers ago, at church camp, I participated in a workshop on the New Testament led by a UU minister. There were about 40 people taking this workshop, and most regarded themselves as UU Christians. The minister at one point during the workshop decided to poll the participants about our beliefs. He asked how many of us believe in a literal resurrection of Jesus. No one said yes. He asked how many of us believe in a virgin birth. No one said yes. He asked how many of us believe that salvation comes only through faith in Jesus Christ. No one said yes. He asked how many of us believe that the Bible is the word of God. 1 person said yes. He asked us how many of us believe in following the teachings of Jesus. Nearly everyone said yes.
Why would someone be ordained in something that they don't even believe is real? Thats like me being a certified ectoplasmic specialist dealing with antigravitational interstellar quasi dimensional space unicorns and their effects on global warming.Those of us who reject what is commonly considered Christian orthodoxy are a minority among Christians, but we exist. I am not the only Christian who believes in Jesus as a great teacher and not as the messiah. Our college chaplain and the associate chaplain both believe that also, and they are ordained Christian ministers.
It's because people have different beliefs about what makes someone a Christian. I call myself a Christian because I believe in following the teachings of Jesus. You regard that as being a "Jesus follower." I think that being a Christians means being a Jesus follower.Using the term "Christian" while not believing that the Christ exists/existed is misleading. If you are using it as a generalized term then possibly "Jesus Follower" applies better, as it defines anyone who follows Jesus, regardless of His divinity.
I agree completely, if one is strong in their faith, then they have nothing to fear from an open mind.
Yes you can call yourself whatever you want, but when you define yourself into a category, it really should reflect your beliefs. If you want to avoid conflict with people who are less than understanding, then you can just generalize it.
From this testimony, a descriptive definition that conveys their beliefs would be "Jesus Followers"
Why would someone be ordained in something that they don't even believe is real? Thats like me being a certified ectoplasmic specialist dealing with antigravitational interstellar quasi dimensional space unicorns and their effects on global warming.
Prof, I think you are missing my point. You can call yourself whatever you want, I believe we all have the freedom to do that.It's because people have different beliefs about what makes someone a Christian. I call myself a Christian because I believe in following the teachings of Jesus. You regard that as being a "Jesus follower." I think that being a Christians means being a Jesus follower.
I honestly do not care if some people don't like me calling myself a Christian.
Prof, I think you are missing my point. You can call yourself whatever you want, I believe we all have the freedom to do that.
I'm not talking about what it takes for someone to be Christian. I'm speaking of the definition of "Christian".
If you deny that Jesus is Christ, then Christ must not exist, right? If that is the case, then if you define yourself as a "Christ"ian, you are claiming belief in something that you believe does not exist. See the contradiction? Are you coining the term "Christian" just so your beliefs will blend in better ? I just don't see another reason for the deception/misdirection.
Here is an open letter to Michael Glatze, written by blogger Daniel DeRito. Read it for a different perspective. The letter itself is a quotation, and it’s in blue:I came across a story about Michael Glatze, former Young Gay America editor, who denounced homosexuality for reasons disclosed in his article: http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56487
OK, cool.
Well, me and my partner are both Christians, I guess thats why we have such a great relationship, huh?
How do you know this? You don't know anything about gay people's relationships, do you?
My posts get reported regularly by people who think I am not a Christian. The moderators dismiss these reports.
Different people have different ideas about what it means to be a Christian. I call myself a Christian because I try to follow the teachings of Jesus. Some people insist that I am not a Christian because I do not adhere to what many regard as orthodox Christian doctrine. I do not believe faith hinges on believing in any doctrine. I believe faith is a practice, not a set of beliefs. I think the early Christians regarded faith as a practice also, and many were driven out of the church when doctrinal orthodoxy was insisted on by a few powerful men. However, many of the texts of these early Christians have survived, which is great. Also, Christians continue to emerge with beliefs that many church leaders regard as heresy. The Universalists in the 19th century, whose tradition I carry on, were frequently denounced as heretics because they believed in universal salvation. They interpreted the Bible differently from most other Christians, but they definitely saw themselves as Christians.
God deosn't recognize homosexual marriages.
Here's God's Word, the only authority on that:
1 John 3:4-10 said:Everyone who sins is breaking God’s law, for all sin is contrary to the law of God. And you know that Jesus came to take away our sins, and there is no sin in him. Anyone who continues to live in him will not sin. But anyone who keeps on sinning does not know him or understand who he is.
Dear children, don’t let anyone deceive you about this: When people do what is right, it shows that they are righteous, even as Christ is righteous. But when people keep on sinning, it shows that they belong to the devil, who has been sinning since the beginning. But the Son of God came to destroy the works of the devil. Those who have been born into God’s family do not make a practice of sinning, because God’s life is in them. So they can’t keep on sinning, because they are children of God. So now we can tell who are children of God and who are children of the devil. Anyone who does not live righteously and does not love other believers does not belong to God.
Consider yourself refuted.
Thanks for this and for all your thoughtful posts.
I don't believe in a messiah. I am a follower of Jesus. Many of the early Christians were also followers of Jesus, who focused on his teachings and his example, not on his death or his purported resurrection.
People can and do argue over what makes someone a Christian. I don't regard those arguments as bad, except when people seek to exclude from the dialogue those with different beliefs.
About 10 years ago, I shared my beliefs with our college chaplain, who is a Christian minister, and I asked him whether in his view I can legitimately call myself a Christian given the fact that my beliefs do not match those of many churches. He answered that yes, I can, and my beliefs are very similar to his. He said that there are many Christians who believe as I do. They are a minority of Christians, but they exist.
Most Unitarian Universalist Christians seem to hold beliefs similar to mine, from what I can gather from surveys of people in our faith. Two summers ago, at church camp, I participated in a workshop on the New Testament led by a UU minister. There were about 40 people taking this workshop, and most regarded themselves as UU Christians. The minister at one point during the workshop decided to poll the participants about our beliefs. He asked how many of us believe in a literal resurrection of Jesus. No one said yes. He asked how many of us believe in a virgin birth. No one said yes. He asked how many of us believe that salvation comes only through faith in Jesus Christ. No one said yes. He asked how many of us believe that the Bible is the word of God. 1 person said yes. He asked us how many of us believe in following the teachings of Jesus. Nearly everyone said yes.
Those of us who reject what is commonly considered Christian orthodoxy are a minority among Christians, but we exist. I am not the only Christian who believes in Jesus as a great teacher and not as the messiah. Our college chaplain and the associate chaplain both believe that also, and they are ordained Christian ministers.
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