Homosexuality

[Jig]

Why do we see a large amount of denominations/sects/religious institutions accepting homosexuality and even approving of it? We see priests, pastors, and even bishops openly proclaiming their homosexuality.

Homosexual acts are sinful.

Now, I'm all for allowing homosexuals to attend church and worship, I don't hate them or reject them (We should love everyone). They are sinners just like you and I. What I'm against is the accepting of their acts as something normal or God pleasing.

First off, anatomically speaking, two males (two females) are not made to fit each other. It is obvious that it is a male and a female that are meant for each other. Even the after product of a males sexual experience (sperm) is meant only for the female's egg, the is no other true purpose.

This alone should prove that a homosexual union is un-natural.

Second, Biblically speaking, God made a parnter/helper for Adam...His choice was a female, in the early chapters of Genesis we see the first marriage union of a "man and his wife".

Gen. 2:24
For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.

Notice the word "wife"? This is strickly used to repersent a female. Many times in scripture we only see that it is a man and his wife that make up "one flesh".

This means two males (two females) can not become "one flesh" (only a man and his wife). If two males can not become one flesh, how is it that they could ever have sexual relations that are not sinful? Only a couple who is married can have sexual relations.

This means homosexuals who engage in sexual acts are living in SIN.

One last thing, I dislike when homosexuals say that God made them that way. That's like me saying God made me with my sin nature so I should go out and sin.

It is not the temptation or desire that makes homosexuality a sin (Jesus was tempted), it is the giving into and acting out on that desire or temptation that is sin. So regardless if you have homosexual feelings, it is something that doesn't have to lead to sin.

1 Cor. 10:13
No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it.

We all have temptations, some people have a problem with lying or stealing, homosexuals have a problem with un-natural lusting of the same sex.

So when you see verses like:

1 Cor. 6:9-10

9Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.


It is talking about acting homosexuals, not those with just homosexual desire.

 

[intricatic]

Be prepared for angry posters.

*puts on asbestos suit*

 

[kimber1]

One last thing, I dislike when homosexuals say that God made them that way. That's like me saying God made me with my sin nature so I should go out and sin

you may dislike it all you want but no study has ever shown 100% EITHER way whether they are born that way or not.

 

[Celticflower]

I find myself quite torn by this whole topic. On the one hand, I have dear friends and relatives who are gay. I do not condemn them or hate them. On the other hand, I am uncomfortable with the idea of an actively gay person as a member of the clergy. So I'm just gonna leave it all up to God.

 

[elsbeth]

My personal opinion is that the condemnations in the Bible of homosexuality maybe referred more to the circumstances of the behavior in those times than to the act itself. Why would God condemn a homosexual couple IF they are faithful to each other and trying to live as Christians?

 

[Bubba1301]

Jig, I'm with you to an extent.
I believe that the act or lifestyle of homosexuality is a sin, and like any sin should not be indulged in or glorified. Throughout scripture we are told to remove ourselves from an array of sins and sexual immorality always seems to make the list. To my the label of sexual immorality includes all sexual sins, not just homosexuality, but adultery, lust and a whole mess more.

I agree in the thought that the church should not approve of this lifestyle or treat it as normal. I would also feel very uncomfortable if a practicing homosexual were in a leadership position in the church - and I emphasis practicing.

In regards to the issue of marriages between homosexuals, I do not think the church should approve of it because that aspect is against scripture (verses mentioned in a previous post). However, to maintain a separation of Church & State - here in the US I see no problem for a homosexual couple to get a civil union, but to call it a marriage or conduct it with the approval of the Church I do not think is right.

We are to love the sinner and despise the sin. Show compassion, grace and mercy to those who are homosexuals around us. Treat it like we would treat passionate lust in a straight person.....sin is sin, is sin, is sin....

 

[angelmom01]

Not trying to defend homosexuality, but it seems to me that we all have our own "flesh" and "lusts of the flesh" to overcome and I have no reason to believe that homosexuals "choose" to be that way anymore than I would "choose" to be "by nature the child of wrath".

People commit suicide over these things and the judgments that are made against them because of something that they are told they CAN overcome and SHOULD overcome but CAN'T.

Not one of us can overcome ANYTHNG without Jesus Christ. He overcame so that we can overcome, but not all will overcome... not even all who call on His name does he KNOW.

Mat 7:22-23 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Adultery is a sin, fornicaton is a sin, lying is a sin, and the list goes on.

Even the fearful and all liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire.

Rev 21:7-8 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. 8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

We are to execute TRUE JUDGMENT one to another:

Eze 18:4-9 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall DIE. 5 But if a man be just, and do that which is lawful and right, 6And hath not eaten upon the mountains, neither hath lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, neither hath defiled his neighbour's wife, neither hath come near to a menstruous woman, 7 And hath not oppressed any, but hath restored to the debtor his pledge, hath spoiled none by violence, hath given his bread to the hungry, and hath covered the naked with a garment; 8 He that hath not given forth upon usury, neither hath taken any increase, that hath withdrawn his hand from iniquity, hath executed ~TRUE JUDGMENT~ between man and man, 9 Hath walked in my statutes, and hath kept my judgments, to deal truly; he is just, he shall surely LIVE, saith the Lord GOD.



Zec 7:9-10 Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Execute ~true judgment~, and shew mercy and compassions every man to his brother: 10 And oppress not the widow, nor the fatherless, the stranger, nor the poor; and let none of you imagine evil against his brother in your heart.

1Jo 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked (executing true judgment, by showing mercy and compassion).

So I hope that doesn't come across as an "angry" post.

As far as service in the church goes... If homosexuals are disqualified from service because of their sin (not saying it isn't sin or that they should not be) then shouldn't those who commit adultery, who lie, etc, also be barred from service?


And as far as:

It is talking about acting homosexuals, not those with just homosexual desire.

How does that square with:

Mat 5:27-28 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

So then how many might that disqualify from service if adulterers were also prohibited from serving (if it is not the ACT that makes one quilty)?

How would we even KNOW if they are not ACTING out was in in their heart/desires?

Or perhaps they just haven't been "caught in the act" yet?

I don't think that someones sin can cause them to love God less, etc. Though they certainly shouldn't be preaching/teaching AGAINST things that they themselves are DOING, if that would be the case.

angelmom

 

[LockeTheMagna]

One last thing,

I dislike when homosexuals say that God made them that way. That's like me saying God made me with my sin nature so I should go out and sin.

I don't agree with you on this. I think that the leading belief amoung Christian adults is that they can go out, and sin all they want, because at the end of the day, they can always go to confession and be cleared of sins. This is one of my biggest rows with the Church. The fact that they provide such continual and open repentance. I don't want you to think I'm saying that cleansing from sin isn't good, or necessary, but that fact that you can do it so frequently ruins the point. On these terms I disagree because many heterosexuals believe that they can sin all the time without fear (in other words, be born into sin) and not have to worry because of confession.

Sex, as an act, is a sin, if the point of it is for pleasure. That is why it is alright for a married couple to have sex. What else, do you ask, could sex be for? Well you already mentioned that it is acceptable for procreation, but on a deeper level, sex is the act of becoming close with someone you love. If this is not a sin, then how can two homosexuals be considered sinners for becoming closer to each other.

This is not to say that some homosexuals are together just for the pleasure, but those in question, the church attenders, are obviously on the quest for enlightenment and acceptance from God, so they will be striving towards that which is Godlike, and if part of their strivance includes coming together sexually to become close, I don't see how you can describe them as sinners.

Locke

 

[TheTrueDemosthenes]

First of all, you are all throwing the word "sin" around all over the place. I do not recall Jesus ever saying homosexuality was a sin. One who is a good Christian is to follow Jesus' teachings; they are not to make up teachings of their own.

Gen. 2:24
For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.

I do not believe Jesus had a wife, nor does the Bible indicate, in any way, that he was included in anything sexual. Therefore, that quote loses its relevance.

This means homosexuals who engage in sexual acts are living in SIN.

lol. Your words, not the Great I Am's.


Truthfully, homosexuality is not a religious topic. When it comes down to it, the right of choice is being debated. Man has dominion over this earth. Humans do not have dominion over each other. The Roman Catholic Church, in the past, controlled almost every aspect of their lives. They were instructed in what to believe and choose. They tried to condone their actions by abusing "God's Will." Let people choose for themselves what religion they are, what they believe, and their sexual orientation. Many may be convinced that homosexuality (and 10 million other things are sins), but unless Jesus has appeared to you and given you a modern interpretation of his teachings, do not start making them up.

Christianity has served billions, and these days, it is generally open to all. Do not deny those who view the world differently the inspiration you've found in God. The Truth is Love. By denying others choice, we are commiting the worst "sin" that we could.

Do not forget that Hitler, infamously cruel, had his Nazis wearing "God is on our side." They truely believed that, and they were denying many Man's most basic rights.

People need to leave this homosexuality topic alone. I do not believe it is "natural", but it is not doing us any personal harm. Therefore, it is, indeed, a choice that we can leave to those individuals. It is not our place to judge them.

~Demosthenes

 

[Jig]

First of all, you are all throwing the word "sin" around all over the place. I do not recall Jesus ever saying homosexuality was a sin. One who is a good Christian is to follow Jesus' teachings; they are not to make up teachings of their own.

I'm not saying that if one has homosexual desire, he or she is sinning. I said that if a homosexual is acting on his or her unnatural desire it only then becomes sin.

I only say this because (and yes, Jesus did mention this) that sex outside of marriage (sexual immorality, adultery,etc) is a sin. If only a man and his wife can become one flesh, then two men or two women can't be. Thus, anyone who is having sexual relations with the same sex is sinning because those two could never be in a God approved marriage union.

I do not believe Jesus had a wife, nor does the Bible indicate, in any way, that he was included in anything sexual. Therefore, that quote loses its relevance.

I'm sure you completely misunderstood the point I was trying to make with that verse...

Truthfully, homosexuality is not a religious topic.

Not even if a pastor, preist, or bishop is proclaiming himself to be actively gay?

People need to leave this homosexuality topic alone. I do not believe it is "natural", but it is not doing us any personal harm. Therefore, it is, indeed, a choice that we can leave to those individuals. It is not our place to judge them.

When we see someone openly sinning, it is our place to rebuke them.
Luke 17:3 "Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him."


Don't you remember when Paul confronted Peter for sinning? (Gal. 2:11) There is a big difference between being a judge and an eyewitness.

 

[holo]

First off, anatomically speaking, two males (two females) are not made to fit each other. It is obvious that it is a male and a female that are meant for each other. Even the after product of a males sexual experience (sperm) is meant only for the female's egg, the is no other true purpose.

This alone should prove that a homosexual union is un-natural.

If so, it also proves that oral sex (etc.) is unnatural.

Second, Biblically speaking, God made a parnter/helper for Adam...His choice was a female, in the early chapters of Genesis we see the first marriage union of a "man and his wife".

Gen. 2:24
For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.

Notice the word "wife"? This is strickly used to repersent a female. Many times in scripture we only see that it is a man and his wife that make up "one flesh".

This means two males (two females) can not become "one flesh" (only a man and his wife). If two males can not become one flesh, how is it that they could ever have sexual relations that are not sinful? Only a couple who is married can have sexual relations.

This means homosexuals who engage in sexual acts are living in SIN.

If so, it also means that masturbation is sin.

One last thing, I dislike when homosexuals say that God made them that way. That's like me saying God made me with my sin nature so I should go out and sin.

But a homosexual probably doen't experience his sexual orientation as "sinful". You can attack a lot of sins because they're obviously harmful, like theft or cheating on your spouse etc, but it's hard to see what's so harmful about two adults consenting to sex in a serious relationship.

 

[yodafett]

If so, it also proves that oral sex (etc.) is unnatural.
...
If so, it also means that masturbation is sin.

Just because some may not like the repercussions of a situation doesn't affect the truth of it.

But a homosexual probably doen't experience his sexual orientation as "sinful".

So if a persond doesn't think what they are doing is a sin, then it isn't?

You can attack a lot of sins because they're obviously harmful, like theft or cheating on your spouse etc, but it's hard to see what's so harmful about two adults consenting to sex in a serious relationship.

So by that logic, then premaritial sex between a man and woman is acceptable, as well?

 

[yodafett]

I do not recall Jesus ever saying homosexuality was a sin.

So unless something in scripture is attributed to Jesus personally, it has no value?

Many may be convinced that homosexuality (and 10 million other things are sins), but unless Jesus has appeared to you and given you a modern interpretation of his teachings, do not start making them up.

Does this mean that doing and 8 ball of crank every night isn't a sin? or driving by and paintballing mailboxes? Becaues the paint doesn't really do permenant damage if it's washed off, and Jesus never told me not to...

Do not deny those who view the world differently the inspiration you've found in God. The Truth is Love. By denying others choice, we are commiting the worst "sin" that we could.

No one is denying anyone the joy of salvation or inspiration found in God! In fact, if you read the Original Post, Jig said:

Now, I'm all for allowing homosexuals to attend church and worship, I don't hate them or reject them (We should love everyone). They are sinners just like you and I. What I'm against is the accepting of their acts as something normal or God pleasing.

But denying other a choice is not the "worst sin". And no one can take that choice away, it called Free Will. We're discussing the weight and ramifications of that choice, not how to remove said choice.

 

[holo]

Just because some may not like the repercussions of a situation doesn't affect the truth of it.

True. I'm just pointing it out. If you believe oral sex is sinful as well, you're consistent. If you think oral sex is OK, you can't use the "unnatural" argument.

Or, in a way, you can - you can say it's natural to be attracted to the opposite sex, and therefore UNnatural to be attracted to the same sex.

So if a persond doesn't think what they are doing is a sin, then it isn't?

Everything that is not of faith is sin. God looks to the heart.

So by that logic, then premaritial sex between a man and woman is acceptable, as well?

The question is whether or not it's beneficial, if it's good for you. The focus is on people, rather than on morality.

 

[yodafett]

The question is whether or not it's beneficial, if it's good for you. The focus is on people, rather than on morality.

That message has got a lot more of a post-modern feel than a Christian feel.

So morality doesn't matter, so long as he topic in question causes no obvious harm? Doesn't that run counter to the fact that God has told us certain things are sins, and others aren't?

 

[TheTrueDemosthenes]

I only say this because (and yes, Jesus did mention this) that sex outside of marriage (sexual immorality, adultery,etc) is a sin. If only a man and his wife can become one flesh, then two men or two women can't be. Thus, anyone who is having sexual relations with the same sex is sinning because those two could never be in a God approved marriage union.

There are legally approved gay marriages. The Bible might have said man and women, but it never said not anything else. As I said, I don't agree with it, but gays can have legal sex according to your definition. After all, marriage, ultimately, is a peice of paper with specific meanings.

Not even if a pastor, preist, or bishop is proclaiming himself to be actively gay

Well, depends on what they're doing about that. It's not their job to teach others sexuality. Their sole responsibility should be to enlighten Man to a closer relationship with God. If they're teaching sexuality of any orientation, they are sadly confused.

When we see someone openly sinning, it is our place to rebuke them.
Luke 17:3 "Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him."


Don't you remember when Paul confronted Peter for sinning? (Gal. 2:11) There is a big difference between being a judge and an eyewitness.

Thus why we have police and laws. Laws are made to protect our rights. Jews were particularly known for their laws, and many of them were very strict. Jesus, by their definition, was a sinner. He was rebuked, but he continued using his right of choice. Sex out of marriage is not a law, and this country is standing on Christian foundations. It is the governments decision on whether or not to allow gay marriage or sex out of marriage. "One Nation Under God." That's what we are, and no matter the choices we make, God will love us all the same. "Sin" punishes itself.

Also, there's a difference. If you see your friend is doing drugs all the time, you let him know he's making a bad decision. Depending on the circumstances, you might even get higher authorities involved. You can have a conversation with someone who is gay, but you have no legal basis to "rebuke" them. Just leave them alone. If you don't like... don't make it part of your experiance.

I don't like smoking. I don't smoke. I don't hang around people when they do smoke.

~Demosthenes

 

[StTherese]

My personal opinion is that the condemnations in the Bible of homosexuality maybe referred more to the circumstances of the behavior in those times than to the act itself. Why would God condemn a homosexual couple IF they are faithful to each other and trying to live as Christians?

Because it is a sin.

What if someone had an inclination to kill people...it just feels right to him...does it make it less of a sin if he does it?

What if you are married and fall in love with another man...should you give into your fleshly desires or should you do the will of God?

It is from the heart that sin arises. Our feelings do not mean anything...We must do what we know is right!

 

[TheTrueDemosthenes]

So unless something in scripture is attributed to Jesus personally, it has no value?

Jesus created a big law for us to follow. Love thy neighbor as theyself. He never said "Thou shalt not be gay." You're Christian right? To be Christian is to follow the teachings of Jesus. His teachings left out the barbaric elements of the now O.T.

Does this mean that doing and 8 ball of crank every night isn't a sin? or driving by and paintballing mailboxes? Becaues the paint doesn't really do permenant damage if it's washed off, and Jesus never told me not to...

We have been told to follow laws. That would be breaking that instruction. We're supposed to be law abiding citizens, and being gay is not yet a crime.

But denying other a choice is not the "worst sin". And no one can take that choice away, it called Free Will. We're discussing the weight and ramifications of that choice, not how to remove said choice.

Ok. Well. God is All... God is Love... No matter what choice you make, you'll be Loved. As for denying others choice, that is the worst sin. For instance, if someone denied you the right to be a Christian... I'm sure you would find that absolutely horrific. The question is WHERE do we draw that line of choice?

~Demosthenes

 

[*Starlight*]

Why do we see a large amount of denominations/sects/religious institutions accepting homosexuality and even approving of it? We see priests, pastors, and even bishops openly proclaiming their homosexuality.

Homosexual acts are sinful.

Stating your personal opinion as a fact is misleading to others.

Now, I'm all for allowing homosexuals to attend church and worship, I don't hate them or reject them (We should love everyone). They are sinners just like you and I. What I'm against is the accepting of their acts as something normal or God pleasing.

First off, anatomically speaking, two males (two females) are not made to fit each other. It is obvious that it is a male and a female that are meant for each other. Even the after product of a males sexual experience (sperm) is meant only for the female's egg, the is no other true purpose.

This alone should prove that a homosexual union is un-natural.

Even if it's unnatural, so what? Using a computer is unnatural as well.

Second, Biblically speaking, God made a parnter/helper for Adam...His choice was a female, in the early chapters of Genesis we see the first marriage union of a "man and his wife".

Gen. 2:24
For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.

Notice the word "wife"? This is strickly used to repersent a female. Many times in scripture we only see that it is a man and his wife that make up "one flesh".

This means two males (two females) can not become "one flesh" (only a man and his wife). If two males can not become one flesh, how is it that they could ever have sexual relations that are not sinful? Only a couple who is married can have sexual relations.

This means homosexuals who engage in sexual acts are living in SIN.

The verse you quoted is just a description of a general trend among people... it simply says how generally people act in their life. But it's not a rule. Most people become "one flesh" with a person of the opposite sex, but some people become in the same way "one flesh" with someone of the same sex, and some other people decide not to become "one flesh" with anyone at all in their life.

And nothing you said proves why would homosexual sex be always a sin.... If you want to prove that homosexuality is morally wrong, don't use arguments such as "it's unnatural", because being unnatural doesn't make something morally wrong. And doesn't use the "God says so" argument, because it's nothing more than your personal belief, so it doesn't prove anything.

Can you in any way prove that homosexuality causes harm?

One last thing, I dislike when homosexuals say that God made them that way. That's like me saying God made me with my sin nature so I should go out and sin.

No, it's like a person saying that since they are left handed, then God intended them to write with their left hand.

We all have temptations, some people have a problem with lying or stealing, homosexuals have a problem with un-natural lusting of the same sex.

Homosexuality is natural for homosexuals, just like heterosexuality is natural for heterosexuals.

 

[TheTrueDemosthenes]

What if you are married and fall in love with another man...should you give into your fleshly desires or should you do the will of God?

It is from the heart that sin arises. Our feelings do not mean anything...We must do what we know is right!

LOL. It's called divorce.

Feelings don't matter... well, lets torture you for 10 hours straight because you commited a sin of whatever degree. It would be right to punish you and your feelings don't matter...

~Demosthenes