Homosexuality: Sin or Not?

[ace85]

I'm a new Christian and I was wondering about the controversial subject of homosexuality.

I know that many Christians consider it to be a sin, but I don't see anywhere in the Bible (other than in Leviticus, which doesn't apply to Christians and also mentions shellfish and mixed fabrics as "detestable") that specifically condemns homosexuality. There are verses in the NT that talk about "sexual immorality" but those are very general and could be talking about anything.

So if it's not in the Bible, where does the belief that gay people are living in sin come from, and how can something be a sin if the person has no control over it?

 

[Princess_333]

Well it seems to me, those that say homosexuality is a sin believe that it is a choice rather than something that can not be helped.
I think some people are curious and are willing to try but I do also believe that the majority of gays can't help being that way, and therefore no one should judge them based on their sexual preference...because that is just plain ignorant discrimination
I haven't read the bible so I can't answer the rest of your question, but friends of mine who have read the bible say it doesnt really explicitly say it, ...and besides people interpret religious scripture to suite their purposes anyways

 

[Zaac]

I'm a new Christian and I was wondering about the controversial subject of homosexuality.

I know that many Christians consider it to be a sin, but I don't see anywhere in the Bible (other than in Leviticus, which doesn't apply to Christians and also mentions shellfish and mixed fabrics as "detestable") that specifically condemns homosexuality. There are verses in the NT that talk about "sexual immorality" but those are very general and could be talking about anything.

So if it's not in the Bible, where does the belief that gay people are living in sin come from, and how can something be a sin if the person has no control over it?

Homosexuality is not a sin, just as heterosexuality is not a sin.

A request to edit was asked for, so I'm assuming somebody wanted this statement explained. Sin is disobedience. To disobey, you have to do something. Neither homosexuality nor heterosexuality is doing anything. Neither is an ACT.

When God says to not commit adultery, He is referring to a specific act. He is not saying " Do not be a heterosexual." Likewise, when God says do not lay with a man as with a woman, He is referring to a specific act. He is not saying "don't be a homosexual." It can't work both ways. If homosexuality is sinful, then heterosexuality has to be a sin. Neither are because to sin, you have to commit an act.

The sin is the committing of homosexual ACTS, just like the sin is committing heterosexual acts.

 

[hernyaccent]

Homosexuality is not a sin, just as heterosexuality is not a sin.

The sin is the committing of homosexual ACTS, just like the sin is committing heterosexual acts.

What are ACTS that apply to only homosexuality? I notice homosexual acts are often pointed out but since their are more unwed heterosexuals engaging in sexual ACTS then homosexuals. Why only point at the homosexual act? Prejudice maybe?

Edit : Since I am required to show proof of this

There are 1.2 million gays in the US
http://www.avert.org/hsexu1.htm

295,458,324 people in the us
http://www.census.gov/

it's impossible for homosexuals to have as many sexual encounters as heterosexuals when those numbers are a huge difference.

 

[Zaac]

What are ACTS that apply to only homosexuality?

Leviticus 18:22 "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.

Romans 1:24-27 "Therefore God also gave them up to their uncleanness, in the lust of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25)who exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever, Amen. 26)For this reason God gave them up to their vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27) Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due."

I notice homosexual acts are often pointed out but since their are more unwed heterosexuals engaging in sexual ACTS then homosexuals. Why only point at the homosexual act? Prejudice maybe?

Prejudice and hypocrisy have a lot to do with it. But we are tasked as Christians to show favoritism to no one. The act of fornication committed by heterosexuals is just as much a sin as the acts of fornication committed by homosexuals.

 

[hernyaccent]

Leviticus 18:22 "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.

Romans 1:24-27 "Therefore God also gave them up to their uncleanness, in the lust of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25)who exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever, Amen. 26)For this reason God gave them up to their vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27) Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due."




Prejudice and hypocrisy have a lot to do with it. But we are tasked as Christians to show favoritism to no one. The act of fornication committed by heterosexuals is just as much a sin as the acts of fornication committed by homosexuals.

I don' have sex and I am lesbian. Where is my wrong doing?
I heard you biblical views and what are you logical views incorprated with your biblical views( i would never ask for you to remove you bible in a discussion)

You are asked an christians to love and not condemn ( if not directly by following the acts of Christ).
http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/1554.HTM


Jesus did not command us to love ourselves. He did not say that there were three commandments (love God, love neighbor, and love self). Instead, He said, "On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets" (Matt. 22:40). Love of self here is a given -- a fact -- not a command. We know of no Scripture that teaches that an individual does not already love himself. Paul said, "For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the Church" (Eph. 5:29). Christians were not admonished to love themselves or to hate themselves. Self-love, self-hate (which is simply another form of self-love and self-preoccupation), and self-deprecation (possibly a disguise for blaming God for not giving the self greater personal assets), are all self-centered attitudes. Those who complain about not loving themselves generally are dissatisfied with their feelings, abilities, circumstances, etc. If they truly hated themselves they would be happy to be miserable. All human beings love themselves.

http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Psychology/self-est/howdoi.htm



Do you honestly believe that throwing bible verses at a homosexual makes them feel loved? Or that if Christ approached his followers and said this is what my father tells me to do through his word that , that infact alone would have made people want to follow him?

Let's address another notion about looking at yourself before you look at the sins of others? If you feel like I am doing something wrong it's fine to inform me of my wrong doing but to beat it into my head when in fact in the Christian Gods eyes you and I are equal no matter the sin?

If I am also not mistaken the one thing Jesus talked about his most distaste for were hypocrites. There are so many hyprocrites on the arguement of homosexuality it's not even funny- it's not correct to address one group and not the other in the eyes of God ( if I was taught correctly-sin is sin). You are commanded to now show favoritism but does that word the other way around...are you commanded to only approach sin that is displeasing in you eyes?

 

[ChristianCenturion]

What are ACTS that apply to only homosexuality? I notice homosexual acts are often pointed out but since their are more unwed heterosexuals engaging in sexual ACTS then homosexuals. Why only point at the homosexual act? Prejudice maybe?

This is an assumption made on your part that it is only homosexual acts that are spoken against. The implication of prejudice may also apply back to you with such statements.
It is also a red herring to bring up heterosexual immorality in order to lessen homosexual immorality. Both are shown to be bad in the Bible. Granted, there are statistically more acts that are sexually immoral than just the homosexual one, but that is irrelevant and does not justify either.
The reason that homosexuality is 'brought up' so much would most likely be due to such a concerted effort to justify the lifestyle... to which, the case to society has failed in it's attempt. In other words: Freedom to practice it? - up to the individual; appeal to accept or endorse it? - Rejected by approx. 70% of American citizens (Christian or otherwise).


Red herring

This fallacy is committed when someone introduces irrelevant material to the issue being discussed, so that everyone's attention is diverted away from the points made, towards a different conclusion.

Example:
"You may claim that the death penalty is an ineffective deterrent against crime -- but what about the victims of crime? How do you think surviving family members feel when they see the man who murdered their son kept in prison at their expense? Is it right that they should pay for their son's murderer to be fed and housed?"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Despite a concerted effort by media sources to influence social decisions:
http://www.glaad.org/publications/resource_doc_detail.php?id=3747

Voters in 11 States Ban Homosexual "Marriage" Despite Massive Media Bias

Adding Louisiana and Missouri, which also passed constitutional amendments to affirm marriage during the late August primaries, a total of 13 states have passed the measure. States with percentage in favour of the amendments: AR (75%), GA (77%), KY (75%), LA (78%), MI (59%), MS (86%), MO (72%), MT (66%), ND (73%), OH (62%), OK (76%), OR (57%), UT (66%).

Source: http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2004/nov/04110304.html

To assist in the math:
75 + 77 + 75 + 78 + 59 + 86 + 72 + 66 + 73 + 62 + 76 + 57 + 66 =
70.92% average based on the vote of the citizen of respective states.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A simple listing of what may constitute sexual immorality:

Leviticus 18 (New International Version)
Unlawful Sexual Relations
1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: 'I am the LORD your God. 3 You must not do as they do in Egypt, where you used to live, and you must not do as they do in the land of Canaan, where I am bringing you. Do not follow their practices. 4 You must obey my laws and be careful to follow my decrees. I am the LORD your God. 5 Keep my decrees and laws, for the man who obeys them will live by them. I am the LORD .


6 " 'No one is to approach any close relative to have sexual relations. I am the LORD .

7 " 'Do not dishonor your father by having sexual relations with your mother. She is your mother; do not have relations with her.

8 " 'Do not have sexual relations with your father's wife; that would dishonor your father.

9 " 'Do not have sexual relations with your sister, either your father's daughter or your mother's daughter, whether she was born in the same home or elsewhere.

10 " 'Do not have sexual relations with your son's daughter or your daughter's daughter; that would dishonor you.

11 " 'Do not have sexual relations with the daughter of your father's wife, born to your father; she is your sister.

12 " 'Do not have sexual relations with your father's sister; she is your father's close relative.

13 " 'Do not have sexual relations with your mother's sister, because she is your mother's close relative.

14 " 'Do not dishonor your father's brother by approaching his wife to have sexual relations; she is your aunt.

15 " 'Do not have sexual relations with your daughter-in-law. She is your son's wife; do not have relations with her.

16 " 'Do not have sexual relations with your brother's wife; that would dishonor your brother.

17 " 'Do not have sexual relations with both a woman and her daughter. Do not have sexual relations with either her son's daughter or her daughter's daughter; they are her close relatives. That is wickedness.

18 " 'Do not take your wife's sister as a rival wife and have sexual relations with her while your wife is living.

19 " 'Do not approach a woman to have sexual relations during the uncleanness of her monthly period.

20 " 'Do not have sexual relations with your neighbor's wife and defile yourself with her.

21 " 'Do not give any of your children to be sacrificed to Molech, for you must not profane the name of your God. I am the LORD .

22 " 'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.

23 " 'Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion.

24 " 'Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. 25 Even the land was defiled; so I punished it for its sin, and the land vomited out its inhabitants. 26 But you must keep my decrees and my laws. The native-born and the aliens living among you must not do any of these detestable things, 27 for all these things were done by the people who lived in the land before you, and the land became defiled. 28 And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you. 29 " 'Everyone who does any of these detestable things-such persons must be cut off from their people. 30 Keep my requirements and do not follow any of the detestable customs that were practiced before you came and do not defile yourselves with them. I am the LORD your God.' "

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
With patience and a desire to be in accordance with the rules, I have added (well known - IMHO) information. I will rely on simple common sense regarding any other confusion/concerns regarding this post.

 

[Zaac]

I don' have sex and I am lesbian. Where is my wrong doing?

If you're not having sex nor lusting after anyone, you haven't committed a sin.

I heard you biblical views and what are you logical views incorprated with your biblical views( i would never ask for you to remove you bible in a discussion)

What do you mean by my logical views? I don't quite understand that because God's Word is perectly logical to me.

You are asked an christians to love and not condemn ( if not directly by following the acts of Christ).

I as a Christian do not possess the power or authority to condemn anyone. But when you tell people that they are doing wrong, they take it as a personal condemnation.

I am called by God's Word to point out the wrong doing. Ezekiel 3:18 I am also called by God's Word to use His Word to teach, rebuke, correct and train in righteousness. 2 Timothy 3:16

Do you honestly believe that throwing bible verses at a homosexual makes them feel loved?

Would telling you a lie make you feel loved? I could just as easily tell you that the committing of homosexual acts is wrong, and you would reply, that's just your opinion.

God's Word is not opinion. And it wouldn't be something that I made up. That's why we are to use His Word to correct. What authority do my words hold? None, nada, and zilch. It is God's Word that sets men free and breaks the yokes that bind. I have to tell you what He says. And everything that I tell you from that point on has to be aligned with what He says or it's a lie.

And when you quote God's Word, you know you haven't given anyone a lie that is tinged by our own prejudices and biases.

Or that if Christ approached his followers and said this is what my father tells me to do through his word that , that infact alone would have made people want to follow him?

People followed Him because he spoke the truth into their lives. That's what we as Christians are called to do. And we are called to do it the same way that He did. In love.

Let's address another notion about looking at yourself before you look at the sins of others? If you feel like I am doing something wrong it's fine to inform me of my wrong doing but to beat it into my head when in fact in the Christian Gods eyes you and I are equal no matter the sin?

That's a mistake that a whole lot of folks make. In God's eyes we are all sinners. But we ARE NOT EQUAL. I as a Christian am far better off than a person who does not have Christ. You can look at our lives and tell. And I'm not talking about in terms of money or stuff.

And how is telling you that you're doing something wrong everytime you do it beating it into your head any more so than you doing wrong repeatedly in a way that I know so that I can point it out? Are you guilty of beating your sin into my head by allowing me to be aware of it everytime you do it?

If I am also not mistaken the one thing Jesus talked about his most distaste for were hypocrites. There are so many hyprocrites on the arguement of homosexuality it's not even funny- it's not correct to address one group and not the other in the eyes of God ( if I was taught correctly-sin is sin). You are commanded to now show favoritism but does that word the other way around...are you commanded to only approach sin that is displeasing in you eyes?

Sure that's what a lot of folks do. But I'm called to point it ALL out. As all sin is displesing in His eyes, it's also displeasing in mine.

Believe me when I tell you, I upset a LOOOOOOOOOTTTTT of people. And I mean Christians and nonChristians alike. I am all about bringing folks to Christ. And about having Christians present a RIGHT testimony for Christ. And there are a whole lot of things that "professing" Christians are not aligned with God's Word on. I'm supposed to help them to get it because until we as Christians are doing what we are supposed to do, we will do nothing but leave a bad taste in nonChristians mouths.

We are called to be Holy and set apart. But by the actions of most Christians, we blend right in because we're doing those same things wrong that the nonChristians are doing.

When you stand on God's Word and don't waffle, you don't make many friends.

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

It does not matter whether homosexuallity is natural or not...

Our body is naturally evil. Spiritually, I beleive one cannot be put into a homosexual marriage, and I believe that sexual fornication and sexual acts outside or marriage is sin... whether hetero or homo.

I abstain from sex, which goes against my humanistic, natural desires. If one claims to be homosexual naturally, then I will give that person the benefit of a doubt. But we all have the ability to over come our "natural" instincts. To say you can't is to say your life does not belong to God. I know that will really tick some people off, but it is true.

 

[Zaac]

It does not matter whether homosexuallity is natural or not...

Correct.

Not really sure which part of this needed editing. But I'll assume that it was my agreeing with the first statement. It goes back to what was said in post #3. It doesn't matter if homosexuality is any more natural than heterosexuality. ACTS have to be committed for there to be a sin.

Our body is naturally evil. Spiritually, I beleive one cannot be put into a homosexual marriage, and I believe that sexual fornication and sexual acts outside or marriage is sin... whether hetero or homo.

Absolutely correct. The flesh is at enmity wth God. It is ALWAYS going to want to do that which is contrary to God.

I abstain from sex, which goes against my humanistic, natural desires. If one claims to be homosexual naturally, then I will give that person the benefit of a doubt. But we all have the ability to over come our "natural" instincts. To say you can't is to say your life does not belong to God. I know that will really tick some people off, but it is true.

Which again is why I think a person who can lay down that desire for Jesus is a powerful testimony, cause the flesh ain't an easy thing to defeat. It's got to be Jesus.

 

[SnowBear]

This is an assumption made on your part that it is only homosexual acts that are spoken against. The implication of prejudice may also apply back to you with such statements.
It is also a red herring to bring up heterosexual immorality in order to lessen homosexual immorality. Both are shown to be bad in the Bible. Granted, there are statistically more acts that are sexually immoral than just the homosexual one, but that is irrelevant and does not justify either.
The reason that homosexuality is 'brought up' so much would most likely be due to such a concerted effort to justify the lifestyle... to which, the case to society has failed in it's attempt. In other words: Freedom to practice it? - up to the individual; appeal to accept or endorse it? - Rejected by approx. 70% of American citizens (Christian or otherwise).

Not that long ago denying people of different colors the right to marry (and force their ‘lifestyle’ onto good people everywhere) was popular. Did it’s popularity make such discrimination good or moral?

(In 1968 -- the year after the U.S. Supreme Court struck down anti-miscegenation laws in Loving v. Virginia -- Gallup reported that only 20% of Americans approved of interracial marriage while 72% disapproved. It wasn't until 1991, 23 years later, that for the first time more Americans (48%) approved than disapproved (42%) of such marriages.
The Gallup Poll. Wilmington, Del.: Scholarly Resources, 1972–.)

 

[InnerPhyre]

Our bodies are not evil. All that God creates is good. We are fallen and imperfect, but not evil.


Catechism 364: The human body shares in the dignity of “the image of God”: it is a human body precisely because it is animated by a spiritual soul, and it is the whole human person that is intended to become, in the body of Christ, a temple of the Spirit. Man, though made of body and soul, is a unity. Through his very bodily condition he sums up in himself the elements of the material world. Through him they are thus brought to their highest perfection and can raise their voice in praise freely given to the Creator. For this reason man may not despise his bodily life. Rather he is obliged to regard his body as good and to hold it in honor since God has created it and will raise it up on the last day

 

[flicka]

I'm a new Christian and I was wondering about the controversial subject of homosexuality.

I know that many Christians consider it to be a sin, but I don't see anywhere in the Bible (other than in Leviticus, which doesn't apply to Christians and also mentions shellfish and mixed fabrics as "detestable") that specifically condemns homosexuality. There are verses in the NT that talk about "sexual immorality" but those are very general and could be talking about anything.

So if it's not in the Bible, where does the belief that gay people are living in sin come from, and how can something be a sin if the person has no control over it?

As a new Christian why do you even care? Unless you are struggling with homosexuality yourself I think there are other things you could be doing to grow in your new found faith. Unfortunately I've seen this kind of thing over and over...a new converts first official actions are almost always to find those they can judge and criticize. It's really a fascinating phenomenon.

 

[hernyaccent]

If you're not having sex nor lusting after anyone, you haven't committed a sin.



What do you mean by my logical views? I don't quite understand that because God's Word is perectly logical to me.



I as a Christian do not possess the power or authority to condemn anyone. But when you tell people that they are doing wrong, they take it as a personal condemnation.

I am called by God's Word to point out the wrong doing. Ezekiel 3:18 I am also called by God's Word to use His Word to teach, rebuke, correct and train in righteousness. 2 Timothy 3:16



Would telling you a lie make you feel loved? I could just as easily tell you that the committing of homosexual acts is wrong, and you would reply, that's just your opinion.

God's Word is not opinion. And it wouldn't be something that I made up. That's why we are to use His Word to correct. What authority do my words hold? None, nada, and zilch. It is God's Word that sets men free and breaks the yokes that bind. I have to tell you what He says. And everything that I tell you from that point on has to be aligned with what He says or it's a lie.

And when you quote God's Word, you know you haven't given anyone a lie that is tinged by our own prejudices and biases.



People followed Him because he spoke the truth into their lives. That's what we as Christians are called to do. And we are called to do it the same way that He did. In love.



That's a mistake that a whole lot of folks make. In God's eyes we are all sinners. But we ARE NOT EQUAL. I as a Christian am far better off than a person who does not have Christ. You can look at our lives and tell. And I'm not talking about in terms of money or stuff.

And how is telling you that you're doing something wrong everytime you do it beating it into your head any more so than you doing wrong repeatedly in a way that I know so that I can point it out? Are you guilty of beating your sin into my head by allowing me to be aware of it everytime you do it?



Sure that's what a lot of folks do. But I'm called to point it ALL out. As all sin is displesing in His eyes, it's also displeasing in mine.

Believe me when I tell you, I upset a LOOOOOOOOOTTTTT of people. And I mean Christians and nonChristians alike. I am all about bringing folks to Christ. And about having Christians present a RIGHT testimony for Christ. And there are a whole lot of things that "professing" Christians are not aligned with God's Word on. I'm supposed to help them to get it because until we as Christians are doing what we are supposed to do, we will do nothing but leave a bad taste in nonChristians mouths.

We are called to be Holy and set apart. But by the actions of most Christians, we blend right in because we're doing those same things wrong that the nonChristians are doing.

When you stand on God's Word and don't waffle, you don't make many friends.

when you tell people that they are doing wrong, they take it as a personal condemnation.

You are in fact condemning them.
condemn
1 : to declare to be reprehensible, wrong, or evil usually after weighing evidence and without reservation

If I am not mistaken Jesus who you are suppose to live you life as never condemned people for their actions. He showed them love which lead to them realizing their wrong doing.

I am called by God's Word to point out the wrong doing. Ezekiel 3:18 I am also called by God's Word to use His Word to teach, rebuke, correct and train in righteousness. 2 Timothy 3:16

Ezekiel 3:18
8 When I say to a wicked man, 'You will surely die,' and you do not warn him or speak out to dissuade him from his evil ways in order to save his life, that wicked man will die for [a] his sin, and I will hold you accountable for his blood.


Jesus already died for the sins of all. So how does this apply? The ways of the Old Covent no longer apply.





1 Timothy 3:16 ( looked on to 17)
16All Scripture is Godbreathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work

.

I looked at a few other translations of this because it just wasn't making sense clearly -

16(A)All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17so that (B)the man of God may be adequate, (C)equipped for every good work.
&

Every Scripture is God-breathed (given by His inspiration) and profitable for instruction, for reproof and conviction of sin, for correction of error and discipline in obedience, [and] for training in righteousness (in holy living, in conformity to God's will in thought, purpose, and action), 17So that the man of God may be complete and proficient, well fitted and thoroughly equipped for every good work. What does this verse have to do with point out the wrong of others. After reading the whole Chapter 3 I believe that half of the letter to Timothy tells him how to us God's word to do Gods work and spread the Gospel. The Gospel isn't spread by pointing out the sin of others.

I pulled out rebuke assuming that is the key word you are trying to us. All rebuking is would be to express strong dislike. God has a strong dislike for homosexuality according to Christian and that is fine. You have told homosexuals that. What's next? If people don't want to hear your word move on.

Would telling you a lie make you feel loved? I could just as easily tell you that the committing of homosexual acts is wrong, and you would reply, that's just your opinion.

Show me where Jesus threw his fathers words in someone's face because they were a sinner. Jesus drew people to his father by love.

God's Word is not opinion.

How do you make a non believer believe that? You can't us something that someone doesn't believe to show them something. The only people who have ever done that in my life and the lives of others are the Christians that befriended me and took me as I was. Eventually everything else in my life fell into place. Condemnation doesn't lead people to God.

People followed Him because he spoke the truth into their lives. That's what we as Christians are called to do. And we are called to do it the same way that He did. In love.

Let's look at how Jesus handled sinners :

3The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?”

The Pharisees ( the fundamentals of their day) were trying to catch Jesus is a lie by bring him a woman who was sinning( adultery) . Considering the fact that God hates all sins- all sins are an abomination. So she was committing and abomination against his father.

But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

Jesus then told the others to judge her because in essence it wasn't his place to pass judgement on her sins. He told the religious who he detested to do it. You shouldn't cast stones unless you are without sin. Sound familar?

9At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”



11“No one, sir,” she said. “Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”

Not one of the people who were holier the thou could do so , so they left. Everyone is a sinner and sin and equal. Jesus ( who is God) told her not to sin anymore but he didn't condemn her.

If Christ does this...what gives you the right to condemn ( 1 : to declare to be reprehensible, wrong, or evil usually after weighing evidence and without reservation )

I as a Christian am far better off than a person who does not have Christ. You can look at our lives and tell.

You better then me?

"For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God sent the Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him. He (She) who believes in him is not condemned; he who does not believe is condemned already because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God."
--John 3:16-18
According to your beliefs - He died for ALL believers and non believers. You have no more or less then the next men. I am sure there are many people who felt that they were christians yet are sitting in hell. He wasn't sent to condemn therefore if you are living as Christ did you have NO right to condemn. I can look at the life of many who claim to be christian such those who murder in the name of God ( such as hitler).

I upset a LOOOOOOOOOTTTTT of people

So you upset people to lead them to christ?

When you stand on God's Word and don't waffle, you don't make many friends.

Jesus has quite a few through his love.

 

[ChristianCenturion]

Not that long ago denying people of different colors the right to marry (and force their ‘lifestyle’ onto good people everywhere) was popular. Did it’s popularity make such discrimination good or moral?

That is a double false premise.

False premise number one is that people denying people of different ethnicity had 'legitimate' reasons for adhering to this bias.

False premise number two would be that it is a valid comparison between

a) Someone’s ethnicity/race that is unchangeable and has nothing to do with behavior/decisions

b) A documented changeable behavior that fails to produce a compelling case as to practicing such and has been shown to have statistical detriments.

But in order to address your question regardless, you should first define your definitions as to what constitutes 'good' or 'moral'.
If we are to look at the secular definition of moral, then YES. By definition, the popular majority of a society is what dictates something moral or immoral.
But the thread title addresses sin, not secular popularity. Perhaps we should get back to thread topic.

 

[hernyaccent]

If one claims to be homosexual naturally, then I will give that person the benefit of a doubt. But we all have the ability to over come our "natural" instincts. To say you can't is to say your life does not belong to God. I know that will really tick some people off, but it is true.

So what you are saying is God made homosexuals to naturally be homosexual yet played a cruel trick on us by telling us they can never engage and sex and marry?

Is that fair? I often hear that God is fair but where is the fairness in that situation?


http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/rr/blrr_gay_evangelicals.htm

 

[hernyaccent]

That is a double false premise.

False premise number one is that people denying people of different ethnicity had 'legitimate' reasons for adhering to this bias.

How is it legitimate to tell me I can't date a white person? How does

this stop me from fulfilling my obligation at birth or help me to adhere to standards?

False premise number two would be that it is a valid comparison between

a) Someone’s ethnicity/race that is unchangeable and has nothing to do with behavior/decisions
b) A documented changeable behavior that fails to produce a compelling case as to practicing such and has been shown to have statistical detriments.

It can also be documented that it's unchangeable. They are both still theroys being tested but the evidence is weighing in on it being unchangeable.

If we are to look at the secular definition of moral, then YES. By definition, the popular majority of a society is what dictates something moral or immoral.
But the thread title addresses sin, not secular popularity - perhaps we could maintain the thread topic.

It being classified a sin has a lot to do with popularity and the views of the majority. Not every christian believes it's to be a sin so it's infact a conflict within a group of society.

 

[JOE__LHF]

Leviticus 18:22 "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.

Romans 1:24-27 "Therefore God also gave them up to their uncleanness, in the lust of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25)who exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever, Amen. 26)For this reason God gave them up to their vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27) Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due."




Prejudice and hypocrisy have a lot to do with it. But we are tasked as Christians to show favoritism to no one. The act of fornication committed by heterosexuals is just as much a sin as the acts of fornication committed by homosexuals.

I agree 100%, well put.

God Bless!

 

[SnowBear]

That is a double false premise.

Allow me to remind you that you brought up the popularity of discrimination against gays and lesbians.

The question remains…does popularity made discrimination good/moral?

False premise number one is that people denying people of different ethnicity had 'legitimate' reasons for adhering to this bias.

The people denouncing interracial marriage in the 60’s certainly felt they had legitimate reasons and there are many who embrace racism who certainly feel their reasons are legitimate. Just as those today who advocate discrimination against gays and lesbians feel their motivations are justified.

(Diane McWhorter, Carry Me Home : Birmingham, Alabama: The Climactic Battle of the Civil Rights Revolution

Brown-Nagin, Tomiko, Toward a Pragmatic Understanding of Status-Consciousness. 50 Duke L. J. 753

Taylor Branch , Parting the Waters.

Vron Ware, Whither Whiteness? Paper presented at Columbia symposium on Civil-Rights)




Simply because those who advocate discrimination against gays and lesbians can justify their opinions does not change the discrimination they are advocating into something else neither does being able to justify discrimination against gays and lesbians turn that discrimination into something good or something moral.

False premise number two would be that it is a valid comparison between

a) Someone’s ethnicity/race that is unchangeable and has nothing to do with behavior/decisions

discrimination is discrimination no matter who it is directed against and no matter how it is justified.

b) A documented changeable behavior that fails to produce a compelling case as to practicing such and has been shown to have statistical detriments.

But in order to address your question regardless, you should first define your definitions as to what constitutes 'good' or 'moral'.
If we are to look at the secular definition of moral, then YES. By definition, the popular majority of a society is what dictates something moral or immoral.

Slavery was very popular 200 years ago. You are saying that the owning of another human being moral?
Segregation was very popular a generation or so ago. you are saying that “colored only” drinking fountains are moral?

But the thread title addresses sin, not secular popularity. Perhaps we should get back to thread topic.

again you are the one who brought it up.

 

[ChristianCenturion]

[/font]

So what you are saying is God made homosexuals to naturally be homosexual yet played a cruel trick on us by telling us they can never engage and sex and marry?

Is that fair? I often hear that God is fair but where is the fairness in that situation?

Is it fair to insert your own false scenario/view into someone else's post? By starting out with "So what you are saying" and then to take it down a false assertion is disingenuous.
Since you have stated that you are a lesbian, I will try to address your statement above...
Yes, God wonderfully and uniquely created you.
Did God create you only to tempt you? No.

James 1:13
Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.

A more direct question to you would be:
Do you wish to be known ('evaluated' or 'viewed by others') on your private, sexual practices?
OR
Do you wish to be known ('evaluated' or 'viewed by others') based on who you are spiritually/mentally or even simply as a creation of God?
If the answer is the latter, then the first one must not be exalted above the rest.