Homosexuality, Same Sex Marriage, and Why You're Wrong

[Glaucus]

Politically I consider myself a Moderate who leans to the Right. Religiously I am a Conservative Christian.

For quite some time I have been pondering the issue of homosexuality and same sex marriage. During this time, I always come to the conclusion that, as an American and a Christian, I have no business voting or being against same sex marriage or gay rights in general.

The United States is the land of the free. We have the freedom to do whatever it is that we want to do so long as it's lawful. In America, you can be in a same sex relationship. In America, gays have the freedom to marry. In America, we are supposed to all be equal and share the same rights.

Speaking now as a Christian, what right do I have to oppose somebody's free will? Not even God forces people to follow him or to not sin. God let's us all choose, so why is it that people like to choose for other people whether or not they will follow God, not sin, and thus live a life pleasing to him? People say it's because they care about the soul of those who are in such relationships. Their soul isn't in your hands. It is in God's hands. And again, he gives us freedom to choose.

In the Church (here I speak of the Eastern Orthodox Church, but we can broaden this statement to mean all of Christianity, despite that some will vehemently disagree), there is no place for homosexuality or same sex marriage. It is a sin, and if you're in the Church, we must hold you to Godly standards and judge your actions and offer correction. But as Paul says, what right do we have to judge those OUTSIDE of the Church? It's none of our business, and being Americans, we should not oppose the rights of consenting adults who choose to marry.

 

[TuxAme]

I have no business voting or being against same sex marriage or gay rights in general.

This is the oft spoken lie we've been conditioned to believe- that we have "no right" to vote one of the two ways we can; and if we do vote, it can only be in favor of the thing being spoken of. I know you go on, but what is it about gay "marriage" in particular that grants it this immunity from rejection? What makes it OK to vote against "marriage" between a man and a little girl (or a man and ten women), but not the particular form of "marriage" you discuss?

The United States is the land of the free. We have the freedom to do whatever it is that we want to do so long as it's lawful. In America, you can be in a same sex relationship. In America, gays have the freedom to marry. In America, we are supposed to all be equal and share the same rights.

I go back to my previous example, of a man desiring to marry a little girl (or a man desiring to marry ten women, take your pick). What makes it OK to deny this "right" to the group you happen to oppose, but not the one that you support?

 

[Glaucus]

This is the oft spoken lie we've been conditioned to believe- that we have "no right" to vote one of the two ways we can; and if we do vote, it can only be in favor of the thing being spoken of. I know you go on, but what is it about gay "marriage" in particular that grants it this immunity from rejection? What makes it OK to vote against "marriage" between a man and a little girl (or a man and ten women), but not the particular form of "marriage" you discuss?


I go back to my previous example, of a man desiring to marry a little girl (or a man desiring to marry ten women, take your pick). What makes it OK to deny this "right" to the group you happen to oppose, but not the one that you support?

The consenting adults part is important.

 

[Saucy]

I think being okay with grievous sin that God Himself calls an abomination and partaking in demoralizing our country isn't something God would want us to do. It is law now, so there's not much we can do, but yes, we have every right and responsibility to vote our conscience and that's what we're going to do. I'm not going to support something that I view is unnatural and wrong because you think we should. I'll vote against them any time I get the chance.

 

[TuxAme]

The consenting adults part is important.

Why, though? How can we say that any relationship has the right to be legally recognized, as long as both parties can consent to it- and this is the only measure we should use?

 

[dreadnought]

Politically I consider myself a Moderate who leans to the Right. Religiously I am a Conservative Christian.

For quite some time I have been pondering the issue of homosexuality and same sex marriage. During this time, I always come to the conclusion that, as an American and a Christian, I have no business voting or being against same sex marriage or gay rights in general.

The United States is the land of the free. We have the freedom to do whatever it is that we want to do so long as it's lawful. In America, you can be in a same sex relationship. In America, gays have the freedom to marry. In America, we are supposed to all be equal and share the same rights.

Speaking now as a Christian, what right do I have to oppose somebody's free will? Not even God forces people to follow him or to not sin. God let's us all choose, so why is it that people like to choose for other people whether or not they will follow God, not sin, and thus live a life pleasing to him? People say it's because they care about the soul of those who are in such relationships. Their soul isn't in your hands. It is in God's hands. And again, he gives us freedom to choose.

In the Church (here I speak of the Eastern Orthodox Church, but we can broaden this statement to mean all of Christianity, despite that some will vehemently disagree), there is no place for homosexuality or same sex marriage. It is a sin, and if you're in the Church, we must hold you to Godly standards and judge your actions and offer correction. But as Paul says, what right do we have to judge those OUTSIDE of the Church? It's none of our business, and being Americans, we should not oppose the rights of consenting adults who choose to marry.

The Lord clearly tells us that homosexuality is a sin:

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. Lev 18:22 RSV

This is a good test of who is following the Lord, and who has his own agenda.

 

[Glaucus]

I think being okay with grievous sin that God Himself calls an abomination and partaking in demoralizing our country isn't something God would want us to do. It is law now, so there's not much we can do, but yes, we have every right and responsibility to vote our conscience and that's what we're going to do. I'm not going to support something that I view is unnatural and wrong because you think we should. I'll vote against them any time I get the chance.

God does see this as a sin, and one he calls an abomination. But in an attempt to get your two cents in against the gays, you missed the point. Not even God steps of the free will of others or forces them to follow him or to not sin. Yet here many people are, saying to others, we will make this illegal and force our religious beliefs on you, despite that God doesn't do that.

 

[Glaucus]

The Lord clearly tells us that homosexuality is a sin:

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. Lev 18:22 RSV

This is a good test of who is following the Lord, and who has his own agenda.

Personally I have no agenda. Homosexuality and same sex marriage has no place in the Church. It is a sin. But those outside the Church, they are free to choose, and we have no business judging those outside of it. Those inside must indeed be judged and turn back from this.

 

[dreadnought]

Personally I have no agenda. Homosexuality and same sex marriage has no place in the Church. It is a sin. But those outside the Church, they are free to choose, and we have no business judging those outside of it. Those inside must indeed be judged and turn back from this.

But it is up to us to set an example for those outside the church.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

The Lord clearly tells us that homosexuality is a sin:

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. Lev 18:22 RSV

This is a good test of who is following the Lord, and who has his own agenda.

The bible has 59 other abominations written in it other than just homosexuality, so why evangelical Christians fixate on homosexuality and are apparently concerned with the sex life of a consenting gay couple is rather strange to me. However, I do have a theory as to why that is, and my theory is that these Christians are willing to openly condemn the one sin they aren't likely to commit themselves. I have never witnessed the measure of moral indignation against adultery or any other sexual sin in the bible as I have seen to the degree of condemning homosexuality. In fact, a large majority of American evangelical conservative Christians politically support a serial adulterous philander as their current president, as well as rally behind him and defend him with a such passionate fervor. So, for these same Christians to be morally indignant over homosexuality and condemn homosexuals is laughable.

But it is up to us to set an example for those outside the church.

If evangelical Christians want to set an example for those outside the church, then they shouldn't politically support Trump and defend him. As far as I'm concerned, their continued support and defense of him has totally destroyed their integrity and the reputation of their Christian faith.

 

[Saucy]

God does see this as a sin, and one he calls an abomination. But in an attempt to get your two cents in against the gays, you missed the point. Not even God steps of the free will of others or forces them to follow him or to not sin. Yet here many people are, saying to others, we will make this illegal and force our religious beliefs on you, despite that God doesn't do that.

I didn't miss the point. I recall many, many times that God has judged nations for their sin. Should we really legalize and be okay with something He calls an abortion? Do you really think it doesn't matter or won't be a black stain on our history? Because perversion absolutely has led to the destruction of nations. Again, it's not something we should ever support.

 

[Saucy]

The bible has 59 other abominations written in it other than just homosexuality, so why evangelical Christians fixate on homosexuality and are apparently concerned with the sex life of a consenting gay couple is rather strange to me. However, I do have a theory as to why that is, and my theory is that these Christians are willing to openly condemn the one sin they aren't likely to commit themselves. I have never witnessed the measure of moral indignation against adultery or any other sexual sin in the bible as I have seen to the degree of condemning homosexuality. In fact, a large majority of American evangelical conservative Christians politically support a serial adulterous philander as their current president, as well as rally behind him and defend him with a such passionate fervor. So, for these Christians to become all morally indignant over homosexuality is actually laughable.

Is that something you googled? I think most Christians condemn all the things God considers an abomination. It's just that the topic of homosexuality comes up more often than others. Go ahead and start a thread about a lying tongue, justifying wickedness, idolatry, robbery, adultery, murder, etc, etc. I bet we'll all agree! God even mentions 'the sins of the nations' in that. We are against things God considers an abomination!

That's the difference. We don't have to fight that hard to convince people adultery is wrong. Homosexuality is a different story. It's just as wrong, but people want us to overlook it and pretend God is okay with it so we don't offend the gays.

 

[TuxAme]

...

I'm no evangelical- as a Catholic, about the furthest thing from it- but I think you'll find that anyone who holds to historical Christian morality will equally condemn prostitution, marrying your brothers or sisters or father or mother, masturbation, polygamy, and anything else you can think of. Maybe you hear about people speaking out against homosexuality all the time because it's such a focal issue in our day. When's the last time someone tried convincing you to be more accepting of polygamists? Those who divorce and remarry? Those who marry from their own gene pool? I can guarantee not as often as homosexuality.

So, perhaps people aren't as apt to speak out against something that most people actually agree on, or something that isn't in the news 24/7.

 

[RaymondG]

But it is up to us to set an example for those outside the church.

The best example to set is to show love and not judge. Jesus will not lose one sheep that belongs to him...whether we are in the business of throwing stones or not.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

Is that something you googled? I think most Christians condemn all the things God considers an abomination. It's just that the topic of homosexuality comes up more often than others. Go ahead and start a thread about a lying tongue, justifying wickedness, idolatry, robbery, adultery, murder, etc, etc. I bet we'll all agree! God even mentions 'the sins of the nations' in that. We are against things God considers an abomination!

That's the difference. We don't have to fight that hard to convince people adultery is wrong. Homosexuality is a different story. It's just as wrong, but people want us to overlook it and pretend God is okay with it so we don't offend the gays.

No, not from Google but from many years of personal observation, having been surrounded by evangelical conservative Christians for the majority of my life. So, I wasn't talking about evangelical Christians here on CF, but IRL. And America isn't a Christian nation or a Christian theocracy. In fact, this country has never been a Christian nation or has even remotely symbolized one.

 

[RaymondG]

Personally I have no agenda. Homosexuality and same sex marriage has no place in the Church. It is a sin. But those outside the Church, they are free to choose, and we have no business judging those outside of it. Those inside must indeed be judged and turn back from this.

I was with you for a while. But since you judged the people sinners with no place in the church, you mind as well judge outside as well.....as judgement and the effects thereof, have already been done in Heaven....soon to come to earth...

 

[TuxAme]

The best example to set is to show love and not judge. Jesus will not lose one sheep that belongs to him...whether we are in the business of throwing stones or not.

What do you say it means to "not judge"? Jesus certainly didn't tell us to be silent about sin or to take it a step further and endorse it.

 

[RaymondG]

What do you say it means to "not judge"? Jesus certainly didn't tell us to be silent about sin or to take it a step further and endorse it.

Everything you do and say affects you, more so than the object of your speech and thoughts. I only encourage speech and thoughts that would positively effect the speaker/thinker. Dwelling on the "wrong" of others is detrimental to the spiritual health of the Dweller. And this does no good for either party.

Say what you believe and place no judgement on whichever choice the hearer decided to make.......calling someone Bad and a sinner after not making the choice you wanted them to make doesnt help God, the person, or oneself.

 

[SkyWriting]

I go back to my previous example, of a man desiring to marry a little girl (or a man desiring to marry ten women, take your pick). What makes it OK to deny this "right" to the group you happen to oppose, but not the one that you support?

We have a calling to protect the underage. I accept that society limits me to one wife, so I vote that way for the benefit of others as well. I learned the "dangers" of dating for than one woman at a time in high school. It's not safe. Do unto heathens just as you would the the heathens do unto you.

 

[TuxAme]

Everything you do and say affects you, more so than the object of your speech and thoughts. I only encourage speech and thoughts that would positively effect the speaker/thinker. Dwelling on the "wrong" of others is detrimental to the spiritual health of the Dweller. And this does no good for either party.

Say what you believe and place no judgement on whichever choice the hearer decided to make.......calling someone Bad and a sinner after not making the choice you wanted them to make doesnt help God, the person, or oneself.

You answered a question I didn't ask. What do you say judging is?