Homosexuality is a sin, get over it...

[georgie2319]

Being gay may be a sin but judging people is also a sin. Everything that isnt Good or right in the eyes of God is a sin. Nobody is perfict. People need to look at there own lives before pointing the finger at someone else. Lead people to chirst not away from Christ. Let God do the judging. Its not for men to do.

 

[Konkurrent]

Lead people to Christ not away from Christ.

My sentiments exactly. I've seen more people than I care to count driven away from the Church by those who profess to be members of it.

It breaks my heart to wish there was some easy way to call myself Christian without claiming the same faith as such as these.

 

[Alchemist]

Do does God say no because he never intended homosexuality to be seen as a bad thing, and intends them to engage in a same-sex marriage.

Or, perhaps God says no because though He doesn't want them to engage in a same-sex marriage, He wants them to accept their homosexuality as the God-given sexual orientation it is and sanctify it for His glory, rather than try and run away from it .

 

[I <3 Abraham]

So if two women, for example, love each other and are committed to long term stable relationships that makes it not a sin? Puhleeze.

Someone get the presses rolling!!!

Jesus messed up when He said that a "man should leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife, and they twain shall be called one flesh."

Jesus repeated in Matthew what God said in the book of Genesis: male with female ONLY.

The Bible also forbids fornication, or sex outside the bonds of marriage.

So God forbids two women or two men getting married, and he also forbids them having sex together, both, regardless of whether or not they are in "long-term, loving, committed relationships."

The only thing they can do is stop being homosexual, and ask God to change them. God can and will do this for the repentant homosexual. God can make them heterosexual...God has delivered many, many people from horrible sins before.

Man, you have taken the Genesis story apart into SUCH small pieces I cant even believe it. So check it out. God paraded all the animals in front of Adam and had him name them all. None of them were a good companion, none of them were like him.

This is not surpising. I can love a pet dog very much, but I would still miss human contact if all I had was my dog.

So God, knowing that "for Adam there was not found a help meet for him", made Eve and Adam says of her.

This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, 1 because she was taken out of ManTherefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh
Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh

Keeping in mind that the purpose of creating Eve was so that Adam could have a helper that was "meet" (fitting), it makes perfect sense that Adam calls her bone of my bone. Having just seen all the other animals, a person is clearly cut from the same cloth. He now has a companion, one who is like him as opposed to the animals which are incapable of really being a companion. When he calls her "woman" it is actually just a play on words on his own name, which means man. Eve was made out of adam so he called her out of man (Adam).

So, what is the reason that he is referring to that will make a man leave his father and mother, cleave unto one another and become one flesh? Taken literally from the rext and not adding any presuppositions, the reason is that she is bone of his bone and flesh of his flesh i.e that she, unlike all the other animals, is like him. God himself has recognized that deficiency is a solitary person ("It is not good that the man should be alone").

In short, the beginning of Genesis 2 is about human companionship and that it is not good for us to be alone.

"BUT!" You might interject: "But God created Adam and EVE, a woman! He clearly intended man to be married to a woman and ONLY that way!"

That is not what I, at first blush, would think that this passage meant. I only NOW think of this when I read this passage because American Protestants have latched onto it as part of their campaign to push homosexuality back into the closet, as it were.

If I do not let my own circumstances color my interpretation what I read in Genesis 1 is the creation story, God lovingly crafting an entire world for humanity and choosing companionship and unity and love as the center of human existence.

Read without the cultural prism of the 1980s in America, I like this pasage a lot more. If yall wish to continue to interpret this passage as meaning "God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve!" Go right ahead. It's no skin off my nose if you miss the point.

 

[OObi]

Man, you have taken the Genesis story apart into SUCH small pieces I cant even believe it. So check it out. God paraded all the animals in front of Adam and had him name them all. None of them were a good companion, none of them were like him.

This is not surpising. I can love a pet dog very much, but I would still miss human contact if all I had was my dog.

So God, knowing that "for Adam there was not found a help meet for him", made Eve and Adam says of her.

This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, 1 because she was taken out of ManTherefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh
Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh

Keeping in mind that the purpose of creating Eve was so that Adam could have a helper that was "meet" (fitting), it makes perfect sense that Adam calls her bone of my bone. Having just seen all the other animals, a person is clearly cut from the same cloth. He now has a companion, one who is like him as opposed to the animals which are incapable of really being a companion. When he calls her "woman" it is actually just a play on words on his own name, which means man. Eve was made out of adam so he called her out of man (Adam).

So, what is the reason that he is referring to that will make a man leave his father and mother, cleave unto one another and become one flesh? Taken literally from the rext and not adding any presuppositions, the reason is that she is bone of his bone and flesh of his flesh i.e that she, unlike all the other animals, is like him. God himself has recognized that deficiency is a solitary person ("It is not good that the man should be alone").

In short, the beginning of Genesis 2 is about human companionship and that it is not good for us to be alone.

"BUT!" You might interject: "But God created Adam and EVE, a woman! He clearly intended man to be married to a woman and ONLY that way!"

That is not what I, at first blush, would think that this passage meant. I only NOW think of this when I read this passage because American Protestants have latched onto it as part of their campaign to push homosexuality back into the closet, as it were.

If I do not let my own circumstances color my interpretation what I read in Genesis 1 is the creation story, God lovingly crafting an entire world for humanity and choosing companionship and unity and love as the center of human existence.

Read without the cultural prism of the 1980s in America, I like this pasage a lot more. If yall wish to continue to interpret this passage as meaning "God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve!" Go right ahead. It's no skin off my nose if you miss the point.

If I miss the point?

Do I really need to quote all the references in Leviticus about homosexuals that were written by the same man that wrote Genesis?

 

[OObi]

Being gay may be a sin but judging people is also a sin. Everything that isnt Good or right in the eyes of God is a sin. Nobody is perfict. People need to look at there own lives before pointing the finger at someone else. Lead people to chirst not away from Christ. Let God do the judging. Its not for men to do.

My sentiments exactly. I've seen more people than I care to count driven away from the Church by those who profess to be members of it.

It breaks my heart to wish there was some easy way to call myself Christian without claiming the same faith as such as these.

If they are not your brother in Christ, then your primary objective is to lead them down the path to become one. If they are a brother in Christ, then what needs to be done is... well, read God's instructions for yourself:

Ephesians 6:1-3
Dear brothers and sisters, if another Christian* is overcome by some sin, you who are godly should gently and humbly help that person back onto the right path. And be careful not to fall into the same temptation yourself. 2 Share each other's troubles and problems, and in this way obey the law of Christ. 3 If you think you are too important to help someone in need, you are only fooling yourself.

This is not talking about someone who happens to have financial problems. Or anyone that has lost a family member or anything like that. While it is the Godly thing to do to help those people through their hard times, this passage is not talking about that. What this passage is talking about is, as I've so generously pointed out, is sin. It talks about confronting sin in the church. Also, notice all the love that's going on. This is not a condemning confrontation, but a "let me help you" confrontation.

Or, perhaps God says no because though He doesn't want them to engage in a same-sex marriage, He wants them to accept their homosexuality as the God-given sexual orientation it is and sanctify it for His glory, rather than try and run away from it .

Using sarcasm and putting a smilie at the end of your post does not make you right. I don't mean to be rude, but maybe next time you should provide Biblical support for the topic's consideration.

 

[hithesh]

Anyone who has heard of the cities of "Sodom and Gommorah" knows that they were notorious hotbeds of homosexuality.

Literalist to me are my favorite christians, they use Paul for their opposition to homosexuality, then refute Paul telling us to not own no more then three pairs of cloths. They refute Paul when he speaks about sharing all our possesions, because they say he did so because he thought the second coming was going to happen in his life time.

The refute to live aspects of the sermon of the mount, because it makes them uncomfortable to do so, and they change the words, by saying the words do not mean what they say.

Ye hypocrite, remove the mote from your eye, before you remove the mote from your brothers.

Men at the time of writing of the bible, did not know the science of sexuality as we do now. There are many homosexuals who are christians, who live moral lives, and it is people like you who love to show your ignorance.

As an individual who faced much suffering in life because of my race, and to see the same suffering in the lives of my friends who are homosexuals, because of ignorant men like you, only provoke the stones to cry out.

"if you only knew what would give you peace, but now it is hidden from your eyes"

May God bless you, and guide you to the truth.

 

[OObi]

Literalist to me are my favorite christians, they use Paul for their opposition to homosexuality, then refute Paul telling us to not own no more then three pairs of cloths. They refute Paul when he speaks about sharing all our possesions, because they say he did so because he thought the second coming was going to happen in his life time.

The refute to live aspects of the sermon of the mount, because it makes them uncomfortable to do so, and they change the words, by saying the words do not mean what they say.

I am not one of these people. I'm sorry you are so blind to so quickly judge me. Even if I was, the Bible's message should not be objective to how other people live it out. That is the only reason you posted these paragraphs, to show how other peoples sin gives you reason to accept what is sin.

Ye hypocrite, remove the mote from your eye, before you remove the mote from your brothers.

You know who are my favorite Christians? People who quote this verse and then continue to say stuff like:

and it is people like you who love to show your ignorance.

because of ignorant men like you, only provoke the stones to cry out.

It seems as if you are not following your own advice. (It would be hard though, since you are not taking in all biblical perspective when quoting the above verse)

Men at the time of writing of the bible, did not know the science of sexuality as we do now. There are many homosexuals who are christians, who live moral lives, and it is people like you who love to show your ignorance.

You have no idea what you are talking about. I try to be nice on these things but people like you make it so hard for me.

Where exactly have I shown my ignorance? I showed how the Word of God condemns gays? you think the Word of God is ignorant? I've made my case about how, with love (I want to stress that for people who think I don't understand Christians ideals i.e. you) we are supposed to confront sin in the church, quoting the appropiate verse. Again, you think that is ignorant?

As an individual who faced much suffering in life because of my race, and to see the same suffering in the lives of my friends who are homosexuals, because of ignorant men like you, only provoke the stones to cry out.

You have no idea who I am. The only idea you have about my personality is what I've wrote in this thread, and you've seem to have made some serious conclusions about me. You sit there and call me ignorant, and all you've done is promoted and condoned sin. You haven't posted any evidence in your favor, quoted a verse, anything. All you've done in fact is attack me. I'm sorry you've brought me to say this but I believe you are the one that is ignorant.

May God bless you, and guide you to the truth.

I would say the same but I believe God has guided you to the truth right here.

 

[hithesh]

I am not one of these people. I'm sorry you are so blind to so quickly judge me. Even if I was, the Bible's message should not be objective to how other people live it out. That is the only reason you posted these paragraphs, to show how other peoples sin gives you reason to accept what is sin.

When you start a thread, with a title which tells others who have deep rooted opposition to you opinion, that they need to get "over it", then you have invited un-christ like resentment upon yourself.

Many of us know that portions of the bible pertain to the culture of that time (such as allowing polygamy), the idea of two men being in a loving relationship, that models the compassion and devotion of married couples, was not foreseen or known at the time of these cultures. The acts they condemn are individuals who were acting purely on lust alone, the same condemnation applies to heterosexuals as well.

In the new testament you have Paul who condemns the act, but Paul also told slaves to remain slaves, because christ was coming soon. I don't think there's a rational christian among us who will say that Paul's teachings are perfect. In reference to homosexuality, he is condemning the acts that were occurring in his lifetime.

It seems as if you are not following your own advice. (It would be hard though, since you are not taking in all biblical perspective when quoting the above verse)

You're right, no matter what I think of you, I should not of spoken to you with such harsh words, but the fact remains that
I am a deep rooted activist for gay rights, just as I am for the rights of men and women of color. To live around the gay community, and to see that their identity is just as important as my race, and to see how they have been persecuted, and oppressed, and forced to suffer because many of us refuse to understand them, is one of the cruel injustices of our society.

Where exactly have I shown my ignorance? I showed how the Word of God condemns gays? you think the Word of God is ignorant? I've made my case about how, with love (I want to stress that for people who think I don't understand Christians ideals i.e. you) we are supposed to confront sin in the church, quoting the appropriate verse. Again, you think that is ignorant?

The word of God condoned killing unbelievers, stoning adulterers, polygamy, and these acts would not be considered ignorant relevant to the time they pertain to, but to condone them today would be ignorant.

Homosexuality at the time of Paul and the OT was a sin relative to the time of writing, and the homosexuality they condemn is not the homosexuality of today. The concept of two men or two woman who love each other, and seek a committed relationship, that is not based on lust, but compassion, was not foreseen by the writers of the OT, nor Paul.

As I've said I apologize for my harsh words, but every-time I hear of a christian father who throws his son out because he is gay, or a gay person who is persecuted, who is denied being who he is, who suffers so much at the hands of people who do not understand him, who is led to suicide, how can I not weep, and become angry?

As person who started off as a homophobic because of Christian teachings, and who then spent a few years around the gay community later in life, to see that they were not the individuals christianity portrayed them to be, I have become convinced that sexual identity to them is just as valuable as race is to me. We weep at our oppression the same.

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

hithesh,,,you really need to read the WHOLE Bible. You don't think the NT people didn't know about homosexuality and it being wrong?? Explain why God destroyed a whole city because of it...Soddom and Gommrah. You can be an activist all you want...but that doesn't change the Word of God. It IS a sin...I have gay relatives. Do I 'throw' them out? NO..do I accept them? AS A PERSON yes...NOT their lifestyle. It is a sin. I love them anyway....pray for them...but guess what? Unless they repent? IT IS STILL SIN!

 

[Polycarp1]

hithesh,,,you really need to read the WHOLE Bible. You don't think the NT people didn't know about homosexuality and it being wrong?? Explain why God destroyed a whole city because of it...Soddom and Gommrah. You can be an activist all you want...but that doesn't change the Word of God. It IS a sin...I have gay relatives. Do I 'throw' them out? NO..do I accept them? AS A PERSON yes...NOT their lifestyle. It is a sin. I love them anyway....pray for them...but guess what? Unless they repent? IT IS STILL SIN!

Perhaps all the people who are so hot on the idea that "God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because of homosexuality" ought to, maybe, read their Bibles? Because it's right in there, explicitly, what sins He condemned them for, and sexual immorality was one small element of it, not the whole thing. (Same with "hospitality" which everybody finds laughable but which God did not; it's another minor element.) And that complex of sins that God destroyed the Cities of the Plain for is one that is practiced by many people who consider themselves good moral Christians today. "Insight for living," as Chuck Swindoll would say.

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

Perhaps all the people who are so hot on the idea that "God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because of homosexuality" ought to, maybe, read their Bibles? Because it's right in there, explicitly, what sins He condemned them for, and sexual immorality was one small element of it, not the whole thing. (Same with "hospitality" which everybody finds laughable but which God did not; it's another minor element.) And that complex of sins that God destroyed the Cities of the Plain for is one that is practiced by many people who consider themselves good moral Christians today. "Insight for living," as Chuck Swindoll would say.

I DO read the Bible thanks! Guess what? Homosexuality is STILL a sin!! GET over it.

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

I like the way some people try to make the Word of God...as a WHOLE 'seeker friendly'. Let's be careful what we say cause we may offend......fill in the blank. God's word is God's word. He says what He means, and means what He says. Just cause we 'politically' correct soceity don't like it...we try and water it down and make if 'easy' to swallow. Well...I believe God's word over mans thoughts/idea/theology/doctrine anyday.

 

[hithesh]

hithesh,,,you really need to read the WHOLE Bible. You don't think the NT people didn't know about homosexuality and it being wrong?? Explain why God destroyed a whole city because of it...Soddom and Gommrah. You can be an activist all you want...but that doesn't change the Word of God. It IS a sin...I have gay relatives. Do I 'throw' them out? NO..do I accept them? AS A PERSON yes...NOT their lifestyle. It is a sin. I love them anyway....pray for them...but guess what? Unless they repent? IT IS STILL SIN!

I love, I love deeply, just as Christ has told me to, I lost the value of my life, and found deep value in the lives of others.

The time, that I lived around the gay community, was also a period where I was losing faith in God, for many reasons, such as the toll of suffering on individuals, and how one child suffers so much more in life than the others, all by fate, or god's hand as we say. And the God, who I never believed in, provided an answer, in the most miraculous way, he said "hithesh they do no suffer by my hand, they suffer by the hands of men, and my will for my children is that they love, as my son loved you" It us who have to take care of the least.

I remember having gay friends, who I was reluctant to become acquainted with because I believed they were immoral at the time, but how much love they showed me and each other, how much compassion did i see them show to the less fortunate, and how much suffering have they felt in their own lives.

I had a gay friend, who was in deep tears, after he read Rev. King's "Letter from a Birmingham Jail", and so I read it later on that night, and started weeping as well. I thought of the suffering I felt because of my race, and how when i was a little boy I prayed to God, that he would turn me white, so that I would not have to face it, and I thought of my friend who wept as well, and I realized we are the same.

I told God that night, if he allowed me to feel this deep conviction, and later tell me that I was wrong, then I no longer believed in him. And if I go to hell, because I loved a group of people deeply, then so be it.

But perhaps you're right, I cannot persuade you to believe homosexuality is not a sin, and their identity is equal to that of race, and gender.

But perhaps I can persuade you to believe that we should afford them the same rights to marry, as we would a couple who is nonchristian, or even another couple who we find to be truly immoral (such as two members of the KKK), can we at least give them that?

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

I love, I love deeply, just as Christ has told me to, I lost the value of my life, and found deep value in the lives of others.

The time, that I lived around the gay community, was also a period where I was losing faith in God, for many reasons, such as the toll of suffering on individuals, and how one child suffers so much more in life than the others, all by fate, or god's hand as we say. And the God, who I never believed in, provided an answer, in the most miraculous way, he said "hithesh they do no suffer by my hand, they suffer by the hands of men, and my will for my children is that they love, as my son loved you" It us who have to take care of the least.

I remember having gay friends, who I was reluctant to become acquainted with because I believed they were immoral at the time, but how much love they showed me and each other, how much compassion did i see them show to the less fortunate, and how much suffering have they felt in their own lives.

I had a gay friend, who was in deep tears, after he read Rev. King's "Letter from a Birmingham Jail", and so I read it later on that night, and started weeping as well. I thought of the suffering I felt because of my race, and how when i was a little boy I prayed to God, that he would turn me white, so that I would not have to face it, and I thought of my friend who wept as well, and I realized we are the same.

I told God that night, if he allowed me to feel this deep conviction, and later tell me that I was wrong, then I no longer believed in him. And if I go to hell, because I loved a group of people deeply, then so be it.

But perhaps you're right, I cannot persuade you to believe homosexuality is not a sin, and their identity is equal to that of race, and gender.

But perhaps I can persuade you to believe that we should afford them the same rights to marry, as we would a couple who is nonchristian, or even another couple who we find to be truly immoral (such as two members of the KKK), can we at least give them that?

NO, cause it is STILL wrong in God's eyes. Nothing wrong with loving them. As I said, I DO love the person...BUT not what the sin is. Sorry. God made Adam and Eve...NOT Adam and Steve....sorry.

 

[hid06]

OP:
Gah? Another homosexuality post? How many do we need? Maybe this was posted before the thread where a homosexual Christian testimonied that he'd been driven away from the Lord by THIS FORUM!

Yeah...homosexuality is a sin ... as is lying, stealing, adultery, greed, jealousy, lust ... now tell me you've never been victim to one of them? We are all sinners! All sins are equal and forgiveable (but one) in the eyes of our Saviour. Why do we have to go on judging when we know we shouldn't!

It's sad how many times i've posted this exact same thing. I think i'm gonna just cut and paste it from now on.

Christianity: it's all about the love!

Ok-so you say homosexuality is a sin. Your statement. We are supposed to repent of our sin. This means that you willfully confess and change your direction. When you sin you are not supposed to continue with the same behavior. I have had a lot of trouble understanding where I should stand on this subject and I am not trying to be confrontational. My problem is in figuring out if it IS a sin. It is hard to read the bible and think otherwise though.If it is a sin than obviously it is not something a Christian should condone. It is not our job to judge someone else, but at the same time, we should not promote sinful behavior and say "It's o.k. to do it, because everyone sins" We are all supposed to atleast work on living the best life we can, even though it is impossible for any of us to be sinless.

 

[ThirdDay3337]

Does anyone get convinced of going to the other side of the issue because of these type of forums?

Or is it just fun arguing for no reason?

 

[hithesh]

Does anyone get convinced of going to the other side of the issue because of these type of forums?

Or is it just fun arguing for no reason?

The numbers of Christians who do not consider homosexuality a sin, are increasing, not decreasing. Christians such as I who, was homophoebic, but now support gay rights, are growing, but christians who support gay rights, who later oppose them are rare, (if not non-existent).

If this questions was asked as recently as twenty years ago, we would not have a heated debate, but the influence of people like me, and others with the same view point are growing, and we are rebel rousers.

So apparently something is working, perhaps it's not the individuals who reply, but the people who read, who have questions, and understand the truth when they see it, who start to realize that homosexuality is an identity just as race, or gender.

So these debates are never point less.

(people don't change over night, but the seeds of compassion will grow in time, so let us not loose faith, because we don't see change immediatly)

 

[ThirdDay3337]

The numbers of Christians who do not consider homosexuality a sin, are increasing, not decreasing. Christians such as I who, was homophoebic, but now support gay rights, are growing, but christians who support gay rights, who later oppose them are rare, (if not non-existent).

If this questions was asked as recently as twenty years ago, we would not have a heated debate, but the influence of people like me, and others with the same view point are growing, and we are rebel rousers.

So apparently something is working, perhaps it's not the individuals who reply, but the people who read, who have questions, and understand the truth when they see it, who start to realize that homosexuality is an identity just as race, or gender.

So these debates are never point less.

(people don't change over night, but the seeds of compassion will grow in time, so let us not loose faith, because we don't see change immediatly)

I think that the reason people change their minds about something is because they experience something.

I only think in person debates are truly life changing, because if there is no human factor like in these, it is just words.

I don't think anyone changed thier minds because of arguments on forums.

 

[hithesh]

NO, cause it is STILL wrong in God's eyes. Nothing wrong with loving them. As I said, I DO love the person...BUT not what the sin is. Sorry. God made Adam and Eve...NOT Adam and Steve....sorry.

I've said my peace, sister, and I don't think i have anything more persuassive to lead you to think otherwise.

But why restrict gay marriage because we consider homosexuality to be a sin, and yet allow unbelievers and members of the kkk to marry (though we believe both to be sinners as well)

If two gay men love each other, but refuse to have sex because they believe gay sex is a sin, but not gay love, then is their room to call them sinners? Since they are not acting on their lust.