Homosexuality is a sin, get over it...

cajun: All sex outside of marriage, but the only sexual sin publically celebrated and politically defended is the sin of homosexuality.

you don't listen to secular music, do you? Watch BET or MTV?
The rap n hip-hop scene is almost all about sex.. and it isn't sex within a marriage.
It's no big deal when a guy has many women, and there's no love for these (women.. altho they aren't even really called that, what they are called I can't say here).
But it was a whole nother story when my 19yo neighbor found out that my daughter is dating a girl. Just the thought of that made the girl want to put her hands on my kid. She doesn't want to put her hands on ppl for lying, adultery, and so on.

Be11e said:

I think threads like this can be leading people down a dark path too...giving people the impression of Christians as hypocrites - don't judge one another, love one another. And then look what we do! Yes adulterers and murderers are beautiful creations ... the Lord can accept adulterer's and murderers - the story of the adulteress springs to mind. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." This forum is full of stones being thrown.

Click to expand...

Jesus still pointed out the woman's sin, though, and told her to go and sin no more. He wasn't saying "Go and sin some more" there. We're throwing stones? You realize those weren't analogous stones that Jesus was referring to, right? He was literally saying "You who are without sin, throw stones at this woman until she's dead.". I don't think there are any fatalities on a discussion board, much less punishment exacted in any way. What you will see, I'm sure, are people rejecting an idea that Christianity doesn't require repentance.

DivineRAiN said:

cajun: All sex outside of marriage, but the only sexual sin publically celebrated and politically defended is the sin of homosexuality.

you don't listen to secular music, do you? Watch BET or MTV?
The rap n hip-hop scene is almost all about sex.. and it isn't sex within a marriage.
It's no big deal when a guy has many women, and there's no love for these (women.. altho they aren't even really called that, what they are called I can't say here).
But it was a whole nother story when my 19yo neighbor found out that my daughter is dating a girl. Just the thought of that made the girl want to put her hands on my kid. She doesn't want to put her hands on ppl for lying, adultery, and so on.

Click to expand...

Hello DR,

Yes, I know what's on those channels, but I do not watch. All those channels show is the decadence of the people who make and watch the videos. God's Word doesn't change to satisfy corrupt generations of peoples and nations.

Have your read the ancient Roman historian Suetonius' The Lives of the Caesars? It shows the debauchery and self-indulgent lifestyles of the ruling classes during the time of Christ, the Apostles and the Early Church.

They were as sexually depraved as are many in modern mass culture. The Apostles and the Early Church condemned the moral/sexual corruption of those peoples, even while they were calling them to Christ.

We have the Scriptures that the Apostles wrote back then. Why do you think Paul writes about homosexuality and moral decadence to the Roman Church? Because it was the way things were and Paul was reacting to it. The Same is true of the Corinthian Church. Corinth was an immoral cesspool and so sexual sin (including homosexuality) is addressed there also.

What the Scriptures say is what counts. Popular culture does not change the truthfullness of what God says in His Word.

Coram Deo,
Kenith

ebia said:

Sin is less bad if you hide it?

Click to expand...

Hello ebia,

Thanks for the comments.

To answer your first question: No, it is still sin, but your questions shows that you missed or have ignored the point being made. There are no Adultery Pride days. Men or Women sinning by cheating on their spouses are not celebrating and/or reveling in thier sins as are many in the homosexual community.

Adultery and homosexuality are both horrible sins. In the old Covenant both were punishable by death. In the New Covenant they are still sin and still just as horrible, and those that practice such things, if they do not repent, will be judged by God in eternity.

Today there are many in the world (and here) who want to excuse what God calls sin. It is a terrible thing to do, because it just speeding people on to condemnation and not throwing them a lifeline (i.e. the Gospel).

Adultery is not debated here, because not to many "Christians" claim to be "whoremonger Christians" or "**** Christians" (terms used for men and women who like sex outside of marrige) but there are a number of "homosexual Christians."

Many of us were whoremongers, ***** and homosexuals BEFORE coming to Christ. Certainly those who have engaged in those sins well struggle with them, and there may be an occasional backsliding, but if we are "in Christ" then we will have repented of those sexaully sinful life styles. IF we "backslide" we will again repent and strive to not do so again.

Some people may be liberated from the temptation of former sins and others may struggle with them all their lives, but God will know the heart.

These forums can be cruel. People don't see and speak face to face here and can be more blunt than they would be in person. That is something we all need to avoid, but that is no excuse for others to come along and try to justify what the Word of God (all the way through) calls sin. Homosexual activity is sin, just like adultery and premarital sex. They must be repented of, just like liars and gossips etc... must repent.

I have to repent daily and I struggle with sin, I am sure everyone does. What is wrong here is you have some people saying that there is one sin (Homosexuality) that is in fact not a sin and we should accept those who practice it and celebrate it.

That is something we can not do, without becoming apostate ourselves.

Coram Deo,
Kenith

Coram Deo,
Kenith

What is wrong here is you have some people saying that there is one sin (Homosexuality) that is in fact not a sin and we should accept those who practice it and celebrate it.

That is something we can not do, without becoming apostate ourselves.

Click to expand...

So you are saying that because I said that a loving, stable and committed homosexual relatinship is not sin, that I am an apostate?

Please note I am not talking about promiscuity, adultery or abuse.

I would like a straight answer, please. Now, as you are online.

Maccie said:

So you are saying that because I said that a loving, stable and committed homosexual relatinship is not sin, that I am an apostate?

Please note I am not talking about promiscuity, adultery or abuse.

I would like a straight answer, please. Now, as you are online.

Click to expand...

Hello Maccie,

I will give you a straight answer. First "a loving, stable and committed homosexual relatinship" is, according to the Bible, sin.

You are going against the clear teaching of Scripture and 2000 years of how All the church understood these things. As an individual you can be wrong and not be an apostate (but you are treading on dangerous ground), but a Church can not hold to this view without veering into apostacy. Actually I think it usually works the the other way around: Churches become apostate and then excuse what God calls sin.

Coram Deo,
Kenith

You are going against the clear teaching of Scripture

Click to expand...

I don't think Scripture is as clear as you think. There is a very valid opposite view, which is held by many.

Christian homosexuals are not apostates.

You, of course, are entitled to your own views. But there are differing views, and those who hold them are not "chucking out the Bible", "going against God" nor are they "not real Christians".

I would say, using the words of the OP - "not all homosexual activity is a sin - get over it".

Maccie said:

I don't think Scripture is as clear as you think. There is a very valid opposite view, which is held by many.

Christian homosexuals are not apostates.

You, of course, are entitled to your own views. But there are differing views, and those who hold them are not "chucking out the Bible", "going against God" nor are they "not real Christians".

I would say, using the words of the OP - "not all homosexual activity is a sin - get over it".

Click to expand...

Hello Maccie,

Thanks for your comments. I do understand that we differ greatly on this issue. I don't want to beat a dead horse so I will make this my last reply to you on this thread.

The teachers in Ancient Judism understood the Scriptures to condemn homosexuality, the whole Christian Church agreed with them, and it is only in recent times that any "church" decided that we have all been wrong on this issue for thousands of years.

They would have us believe that it took over 3000 years for someone to come along who could rightly understand that the Bible only condemns promiscuous homosexual sex. All the great teachers in Judism and Christiansity missed it all those thousands of years. Thank the Lord we have modern people who finally got to the truth.

I think not Maccie. You too are free to believe what you like. On this issue God will judge us both someday. I stand with the over 3,000 years of the teachings of God's people. You stand with moderns, ancient pagan Greeks and some ancient pagan Romans.

I think I will remain where I am. I wish you well.

Coram Deo,
Kenith

ebia said:

Because of several hundred years of anti-gay propaganda.


Does not support your point.


Untrue. "Do not bear false witness".


[/COLOR]
Does not mention homosexuality. On the other hand, Ezekiel makes it quite explicit what the sin of Sodom was, and it has nothing to do with homosexuality and only a passing connection with sex. The sin for which Sodom was destroyed was greed and lack of charity - the same sin that the whole of Western Civilisation is currently guilty of .


Taken out of context with dubious translation.

Click to expand...

Leviticus 18:22 makes this plain

Cajun Huguenot said:

The teachers in Ancient Judism understood the Scriptures to condemn homosexuality, the whole Christian Church agreed with them, and it is only in recent times that any "church" decided that we have all been wrong on this issue for thousands of years.

They would have us believe that it took over 3000 years for someone to come along who could rightly understand that the Bible only condemns promiscuous homosexual sex.

Click to expand...

No. The Bible only condemns homosexual sex - that's if the translations and interpretations of the various words are indeed as traditionally understood. That's the strongest case you can possibly make. And yet you insist that it condemns homosexuality, that homosexuality is a sin.

Do you not understand the difference between homosexuality and homosexual sex?

It's the same as the difference between heterosexuality and heterosexual sex.

Homosexuality and heterosexuality are just ways of describing who people who physically and sexually attracted to - they're nothing to do with sexual activity. In other words, just as one can be a heterosexual without engaging in heterosexual sex, so one can be a homosexual without engaging in homosexual sex.

And since the however few verses it is in the Bible that are seen as referring to homosexuality (eight, I think, out of the whole Bible; there is such a thing as seeing things in perspective...why is homosexuality such a big issue for so many people?) in fact only refer to homosexual sex (that's assuming the Sodom and Gomorrah material isn't referring to lack of hospitality, and assuming the Leviticus material isn't referring to male temple prostitutes, and that's before we get onto exactly what Paul meant by arsenokoites...), someone who is homosexual isn't necessarily contravening the Biblical instructions on the subject.

Does that make sense?

David.

ebia said:

Perhaps, but the concept of love portrayed by some conservative Christians is so unloving as to make the concept worthless.

Click to expand...

No because your concept of God is subjective ours is biblical.

ebia said:

This is creating something of a straw-man. That's not the argument of most (any?) people here. However, God's love does extend to allowing people to do the wrong thing - Christ never forced anyone to follow him or his commandments.

Click to expand...

No strawman, it's values of the liberal movement, you just proved it yourself.

ebia said:

Because it is almost always a cover for "hate the sin and pay lip-service to loving the sinner". I've yet to meet anyone who uses the term and goes on to make it work in a valuable, Christ centred, way.

Click to expand...

I haven't seen one person do that here...<edited SJ>

ebia said:

Not all facts are provable from scripture alone - to try and force scripture into that role is to try and force it into a role for which it was never intended by God.

Click to expand...

If homosexuality was a fact, the scripture would be false and there would be no point in being Christian. And stop putting words into my mouth, I never said that all facts will only come from scripture.

ebia said:

Define natural.

Click to expand...

In accordance to God's will.

ebia said:

No, sin is determined by harm. Or, put the other way around, by failing to meet at least one of the two great commandments. So, how does a monogomous, faithful, permanent, loving, consentual homosexual relationship break one of those commandments - without reference to any other command (since any other command must, itself, follow from the great two)?

Click to expand...

This isn't according to the Christian God, again you are practacing subjectivism.. <edited SJ>

ebia said:

IMO, that's what those who oppose all homosexual relationships - eg yourself - are doing.

Click to expand...

Nope, it's what scripture says not what I want it to say. This has been a doctronial teaching for more than 2000 years then suddnely you liberals think that holy spirit is learn new things. Remember, God is consistent, we're not.

ebia said:

Because God speaks to us through it. I don't believe the bible becaue it's true - I believe it because (and only to the extent) that God speaks through it. God is the point, the purpose, the authority and the truth - not the bible.

Click to expand...

Sorry, but either the whole bible is true cover to cover or it's all false. You can't pick and choose what you like, this is further part of subjectivism.

ebia said:

And others base theirs more on prejudiced interpretations of scripture than on Christ.

Click to expand...

Yeah, the anti-interrecial marrige "Christains" did that. They are about as Godly as the liberal christains who support Gay marrige.

Carey said:

Leviticus 18:22 makes this plain

Click to expand...

Ooh, if we're going to get into Leviticus, let's just skip a couple of chapters and go to chapter 20:

Verse 9: " 'If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother, and his blood will be on his own head."

Verse 10: " 'If a man commits adultery with another man's wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.

Verse 13: " 'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

And chapter 24, verse 16 is a good one as well: "Anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD must be put to death. The entire assembly must stone him. Whether an alien or native-born, when he blasphemes the Name, he must be put to death."

So here's my little challenge to anyone who wants to bring up Leviticus as presenting a strong case against homosexuals: next time you meet someone who's cursed their father or mother; or an adulterer; or someone who's had homosexual sex with another man; or a blasphemer...put them to death. I don't reckon much for your chances when the cops come a-calling, but hey, at least you'll have been obedient to Leviticus.

Or...you could just admit that much, if not all, of what Leviticus has to say may be just a little archaic and outdated and really rather impractical for us enlightened 21st century types.



David.

Be11e said:

Corinthians 13:4-7
[bible]
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
[/bible]

Love is Christ's Golden rule. Love others as you love yourself. God IS love. In this situation surely the most loving thing to do is not judge and harrass, but give the hand of friendship and prayer.

Click to expand...

This is part that people DON'T understand. Do you know what God ment by that? It means care for them and help them in all their needs. BUT HATE THEIR SIN AS YOU HATE YOUR OWN because it's a source of evil. There is no harrassment here or judgement...just a clear stand for biblical truth.

Be11e said:

I think threads like this can be leading people down a dark path too...giving people the impression of Christians as hypocrites - don't judge one another, love one another. And then look what we do! Yes adulterers and murderers are beautiful creations ... the Lord can accept adulterer's and murderers - the story of the adulteress springs to mind. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." This forum is full of stones being thrown.

Click to expand...

Actually people who stand for biblical truth are doing God's work. This isn't about legistics, but about God's will which is in the bible.

BTW people will always find some way to fight biblical truth. Either by calling us hypocrites, using circular arguments or crappy logic to justify their sin.

And you still don't understand the concept of God in this thread. It's because we love homosexuals that we are giving them the messege of the Gosple. REPENT AND BOW DOWN TO CHRIST, LEAVE YOUR SIN AND LISTEN TO THE KING OF KINGS. Justifiying your sin is only making things worse in God's eyes.

David Brider said:

Ooh, if we're going to get into Leviticus, let's just skip a couple of chapters and go to chapter 20:

Verse 9: " 'If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother, and his blood will be on his own head."

Verse 10: " 'If a man commits adultery with another man's wife&#8212;with the wife of his neighbor&#8212;both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.

Verse 13: " 'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

And chapter 24, verse 16 is a good one as well: "Anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD must be put to death. The entire assembly must stone him. Whether an alien or native-born, when he blasphemes the Name, he must be put to death."

So here's my little challenge to anyone who wants to bring up Leviticus as presenting a strong case against homosexuals: next time you meet someone who's cursed their father or mother; or an adulterer; or someone who's had homosexual sex with another man; or a blasphemer...put them to death. I don't reckon much for your chances when the cops come a-calling, but hey, at least you'll have been obedient to Leviticus.

Or...you could just admit that much, if not all, of what Leviticus has to say may be just a little archaic and outdated and really rather impractical for us enlightened 21st century types.



David.

Click to expand...

Do you understand the difference of the old covenant and the new? That just demonstrates that all those people are sinners.

BTW paul address homosexuality in the NT as well. God is consistent, sin doesn't stop in one point in time, it keeps going through the ages.

David Brider said:

No. The Bible only condemns homosexual sex - that's if the translations and interpretations of the various words are indeed as traditionally understood. That's the strongest case you can possibly make. And yet you insist that it condemns homosexuality, that homosexuality is a sin.

Do you not understand the difference between homosexuality and homosexual sex?

It's the same as the difference between heterosexuality and heterosexual sex.

Homosexuality and heterosexuality are just ways of describing who people who physically and sexually attracted to - they're nothing to do with sexual activity. In other words, just as one can be a heterosexual without engaging in heterosexual sex, so one can be a homosexual without engaging in homosexual sex.

And since the however few verses it is in the Bible that are seen as referring to homosexuality (eight, I think, out of the whole Bible; there is such a thing as seeing things in perspective...why is homosexuality such a big issue for so many people?) in fact only refer to homosexual sex (that's assuming the Sodom and Gomorrah material isn't referring to lack of hospitality, and assuming the Leviticus material isn't referring to male temple prostitutes, and that's before we get onto exactly what Paul meant by arsenokoites...), someone who is homosexual isn't necessarily contravening the Biblical instructions on the subject.

Does that make sense?

David.

Click to expand...

Can someone explain to me why homosexual sex is wrong and homosexuality is right? I think you forgot this verse...

2 Peter 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:

James 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

I Samuel 16:7"But the Lord said to Samuel, 'Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The Lord does not look at the things man looks at. Man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart."Can I think about killing someone and it not being a sin? Your repeate play with semantics is illogical.

Thinking any sinful action is just as bad as doing it.

BTW subjectivism is invalid, we are trying to read scripture as objectively as possible. And homosexuality is a important topic because liberal churches are failing to recognize it's sinful background.

David Brider said:

No. The Bible only condemns homosexual sex - that's if the translations and interpretations of the various words are indeed as traditionally understood. That's the strongest case you can possibly make. And yet you insist that it condemns homosexuality, that homosexuality is a sin.

Do you not understand the difference between homosexuality and homosexual sex?

It's the same as the difference between heterosexuality and heterosexual sex.

Homosexuality and heterosexuality are just ways of describing who people who physically and sexually attracted to - they're nothing to do with sexual activity. In other words, just as one can be a heterosexual without engaging in heterosexual sex, so one can be a homosexual without engaging in homosexual sex.

And since the however few verses it is in the Bible that are seen as referring to homosexuality (eight, I think, out of the whole Bible; there is such a thing as seeing things in perspective...why is homosexuality such a big issue for so many people?) in fact only refer to homosexual sex (that's assuming the Sodom and Gomorrah material isn't referring to lack of hospitality, and assuming the Leviticus material isn't referring to male temple prostitutes, and that's before we get onto exactly what Paul meant by arsenokoites...), someone who is homosexual isn't necessarily contravening the Biblical instructions on the subject.

Does that make sense?

David.

Click to expand...

Yes, it makes sense I wish other people would see this.
One can even be in a homosexual relationship and not engage in homosexual sex.

David Brider said:

No. The Bible only condemns homosexual sex - that's if the translations and interpretations of the various words are indeed as traditionally understood. That's the strongest case you can possibly make. And yet you insist that it condemns homosexuality, that homosexuality is a sin.

Do you not understand the difference between homosexuality and homosexual sex?

It's the same as the difference between heterosexuality and heterosexual sex.

Homosexuality and heterosexuality are just ways of describing who people who physically and sexually attracted to - they're nothing to do with sexual activity. In other words, just as one can be a heterosexual without engaging in heterosexual sex, so one can be a homosexual without engaging in homosexual sex.

And since the however few verses it is in the Bible that are seen as referring to homosexuality (eight, I think, out of the whole Bible; there is such a thing as seeing things in perspective...why is homosexuality such a big issue for so many people?) in fact only refer to homosexual sex (that's assuming the Sodom and Gomorrah material isn't referring to lack of hospitality, and assuming the Leviticus material isn't referring to male temple prostitutes, and that's before we get onto exactly what Paul meant by arsenokoites...), someone who is homosexual isn't necessarily contravening the Biblical instructions on the subject.

Does that make sense?

David.

Click to expand...

Hello David,

Thanks for the reply to my earlier post.

All homosexual sex is sin. All homosexual lust is sin and heterosexual lust is also sin. All heterosxual sex outside of marriage is sin.

Temptation is not sin, be it homosexual or heterosexual. However, yeilding to sinful temptation is sin. I have no doubt that many fine Christians are tempted to sin in heterosexual ways, homosexual ways and some to both.

If your read my posts on this thread you will find that I have tried to stress sexual sin. Temptation are things we all struggle with in one way or another. I may not be tempted by things you are tempted by and vice versa.

The thing that is "The Big Deal" is the modern attempt by many in Christ Church to justify or legitimise homosexual activity and say, as Maccie and several other do, certain types of homosexuality is valid and acceptable in Christ Church.

The Church up until very recent times, and the Hebrew of the Old Covenant all spoke in one accord on this subject. Now, 3,500 years after the Old Covenant law was written and 1900 years after New Covenant Scriptures were written we find "Christians" who say we have all been wrong for all that time. Finally these modern theologians see what everyone else for more 3,000 years had missed.

I don't think so.

Coram Deo,
Kenith

you are so rite, someone needs to help these guys,or gals. they have a serios problem

All I will say is this.

Two Christian persons who are married by a minister needn't fear for their salvation on account of their love for one another.

Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God,
1 John 4:7

Anyone who is interested in an open and affirming Protestant church, check out www.ucc.org

Or

[wiki] United Church of Christ [/wiki]

Here's a short rundown of some of the spirit-driven 'firsts' of the UCC

Distinctive Beliefs and Doctrines

The UCC is firmly committed to ecumenism and congregationalism. The motto of the church is Jesus' prayer from the book of John "That they may all be one". This prayer expresses a spirit of unity which desires to heal the divisions within Christ's church.
The UCC also believes that "there is yet more light and truth to break forth from God's holy word". This expresses the belief that biblical interpretation is not defined by the past but instead that the bible has truths that speak specifically to our present conditions. The UCC is deeply committed to the inclusion of all people. This commitment is long standing and has manifested itself in several "firsts".

-In 1700 the first anti-slavery pamphlet published in America, The Selling of Joseph, was written by Rev. Samuel Sewall.

Samuel Sewall

-In 1785 Lemuel Haynes is ordained. He is the first African American ordained by an established Protestant church.

Lemuel Haynes

-In 1846 the first mixed-race anti slavery society is formed by Congregationalists who helped defend the Amistad prisoners.

-In 1853 Antoinette Brown became the first woman to be ordained a minister. She is perhaps the first woman in human history to lead a Christian congregation.

Antionette Brown

-In 1972 the UCC ordains the Rev. William R Johnson, he is the first openly homosexual man to serve as minister of a mainline protestant denomination.

-In 1976 the UCC's General Synod elected the Rev. Joseph H. Evans president of the UCC. He is the first African American to lead a mixed race mainline denomination.

-In 2005 at the 25th General Synod, the UCC adopted a resolution calling for equal marriage rights regardless of gender. The UCC is the first mainline protestant church to affirm equal marriage rights. However, the Congregationalist organization of the UCC means that this resolution is not binding for individual congregations. It is instead a call for all congregations to prayerfully study and consider adopting a policy of marrying persons regardless of their gender. It is also a call for political support for marriage equality. The following is a press release made after the vote to pass this resolution. This press statement can also be found here.







The full text resolution itself can be found here. A browser capable of reading pdf files is required.

This resolution is in keeping with the UCC&#8217;s long standing commitment to inclusion of all peoples and reflects common scriptural interpretation among UCC congregations. The following is a short excerpt from the resolution text; it briefly outlines these interpretations.

External Links


Official site: United Church of Christ