Homosexuality - Here's how I look at it

DZoolander · Apr 24, 2007

My viewpoint gets me mixed reactions from my friends. Some people really like how I look at it - others seem to really disagree and it's a real bone of contention.

I was raised taught that we are all sinners. Good works will not earn our way into heaven. The fact that we are living with sin makes us all equally guity of sin in God's eyes. It's only through our faith, and our redemption through Christ, that we are found worthy of salvation. God pretty much views us all equally due to our sin.

The important part is...God views us all equally unworthy of salvation based upon our own merit.

To me this means there is no hierarchy of sin. For example - if I have lust in my heart - that's not a bigger sin than if someone that tells a white lie. God isn't more "[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]ed off" at my sin than he is at the other. It's the fact that we are impure, and with sin, that matters. That's what God sees.

On that note... Homosexuality is just another sin. It doesn't rank higher in God's eyes than any other sin. Sin is sin, and Homosexuality is just another facet of it. God isn't up there fuming more over the homosexual than he is over any other sin.

If God isn't fuming more over homosexuality than any other sin - then I'm not going to either. It's God's place to judge - not mine. It's not my choice of lifestyle, but neither are a litany of other things. In a world full people hurting each other, being cruel, murdering each other, etc...the last thing I need to burden myself with is worrying about what consensual adults choose to do with their reproductive organs.

That's how I see it. God will have the final say. Until then, I'm going to worry about things that in my humble opinion truly do effect our quality of life while we're here.

UberLutheran · Apr 24, 2007

EZoolander said:
My viewpoint gets me mixed reactions from my friends. Some people really like how I look at it - others seem to really disagree and it's a real bone of contention.

I was raised taught that we are all sinners. Good works will not earn our way into heaven. The fact that we are living with sin makes us all equally guity of sin in God's eyes. It's only through our faith, and our redemption through Christ, that we are found worthy of salvation. God pretty much views us all equally due to our sin.

The important part is...God views us all equally unworthy of salvation based upon our own merit.

To me this means there is no hierarchy of sin. For example - if I have lust in my heart - that's not a bigger sin than if someone that tells a white lie. God isn't more "[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]ed off" at my sin than he is at the other. It's the fact that we are impure, and with sin, that matters. That's what God sees.

On that note... Homosexuality is just another sin. It doesn't rank higher in God's eyes than any other sin. Sin is sin, and Homosexuality is just another facet of it. God isn't up there fuming more over the homosexual than he is over any other sin.

If God isn't fuming more over homosexuality than any other sin - then I'm not going to either. It's God's place to judge - not mine. It's not my choice of lifestyle, but neither are a litany of other things. In a world full people hurting each other, being cruel, murdering each other, etc...the last thing I need to burden myself with is worrying about what consensual adults choose to do with their reproductive organs.

That's how I see it. God will have the final say. Until then, I'm going to worry about things that in my humble opinion truly do effect our quality of life while we're here.

After the flame fest which has gone around in here over the past six weeks, this post is nothing short of amazing -- and a badly needed breath of fresh air (as well as an excellent reality check).

Reps to you!

EnemyPartyII · Apr 24, 2007

Ezoolander... kudos for not condemning people for being different to you...

may I now suggest that you take the next step and try to understand that homosexuality is not necesarily sinful?

Pray on the matter if it helps

DZoolander · Apr 24, 2007

That's not an argument I tend to engage in. I'm not interested in having zealots quoting me scripture...because then it goes completely off tangent and just enables people looking to spew the hatred that's really in their heart.

I don't have a lot of respect for people that use God's word as a tool to spew divisive hatred for others. I believe that a lot of people *want* to hate, and find passages here and there to fuel that desire. Getting into a subject like that, while well intentioned, is far too philosophical for most...and never stays on track.

EnemyPartyII · Apr 24, 2007

That's not an argument I tend to engage in. I'm not interested in having zealots quoting me scripture...because then it goes completely off tangent and just enables people looking to spew the hatred that's really in their heart.

I don't have a lot of respect for people that use God's word as a tool to spew divisive hatred for others. I believe that a lot of people *want* to hate, and find passages here and there to fuel that desire. Getting into a subject like that, while well intentioned, is far too philosophical for most...and never stays on track.

I agree with every word here

Pogue · Apr 24, 2007

EZoolander said:
That's not an argument I tend to engage in. I'm not interested in having zealots quoting me scripture...because then it goes completely off tangent and just enables people looking to spew the hatred that's really in their heart.

I don't have a lot of respect for people that use God's word as a tool to spew divisive hatred for others. I believe that a lot of people *want* to hate, and find passages here and there to fuel that desire. Getting into a subject like that, while well intentioned, is far too philosophical for most...and never stays on track.

So true. People often use the Bible as a kind of weapon to bash people who they don't like, and have no interest in any kind of debate. It's refreshing to see a more balanced view!

eastcoast_bsc · Apr 24, 2007

Good post. I found it to be well thought out and reasoned. I am sure the Zealots are allready seething with contempt.

Time4AChange · Apr 24, 2007

EZoolander said:
My viewpoint gets me mixed reactions from my friends. Some people really like how I look at it - others seem to really disagree and it's a real bone of contention.

I was raised taught that we are all sinners. Good works will not earn our way into heaven. The fact that we are living with sin makes us all equally guity of sin in God's eyes. It's only through our faith, and our redemption through Christ, that we are found worthy of salvation. God pretty much views us all equally due to our sin.

The important part is...God views us all equally unworthy of salvation based upon our own merit.

To me this means there is no hierarchy of sin. For example - if I have lust in my heart - that's not a bigger sin than if someone that tells a white lie. God isn't more "[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]ed off" at my sin than he is at the other. It's the fact that we are impure, and with sin, that matters. That's what God sees.

On that note... Homosexuality is just another sin. It doesn't rank higher in God's eyes than any other sin. Sin is sin, and Homosexuality is just another facet of it. God isn't up there fuming more over the homosexual than he is over any other sin.

If God isn't fuming more over homosexuality than any other sin - then I'm not going to either. It's God's place to judge - not mine. It's not my choice of lifestyle, but neither are a litany of other things. In a world full people hurting each other, being cruel, murdering each other, etc...the last thing I need to burden myself with is worrying about what consensual adults choose to do with their reproductive organs.

That's how I see it. God will have the final say. Until then, I'm going to worry about things that in my humble opinion truly do effect our quality of life while we're here.

Good post bro, i completely agree with this.

david_x · Apr 24, 2007

My viewpoint gets me mixed reactions from my friends. Some people really like how I look at it - others seem to really disagree and it's a real bone of contention.

I was raised taught that we are all sinners. Good works will not earn our way into heaven. The fact that we are living with sin makes us all equally guity of sin in God's eyes. It's only through our faith, and our redemption through Christ, that we are found worthy of salvation. God pretty much views us all equally due to our sin.

The important part is...God views us all equally unworthy of salvation based upon our own merit.

To me this means there is no hierarchy of sin. For example - if I have lust in my heart - that's not a bigger sin than if someone that tells a white lie. God isn't more "[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]ed off" at my sin than he is at the other. It's the fact that we are impure, and with sin, that matters. That's what God sees.

On that note... Homosexuality is just another sin. It doesn't rank higher in God's eyes than any other sin. Sin is sin, and Homosexuality is just another facet of it. God isn't up there fuming more over the homosexual than he is over any other sin.

If God isn't fuming more over homosexuality than any other sin - then I'm not going to either. It's God's place to judge - not mine. It's not my choice of lifestyle, but neither are a litany of other things. In a world full people hurting each other, being cruel, murdering each other, etc...the last thing I need to burden myself with is worrying about what consensual adults choose to do with their reproductive organs.

That's how I see it. God will have the final say. Until then, I'm going to worry about things that in my humble opinion truly do effect our quality of life while we're here.

Yes exactly how I felt, not so good with words though.

ReformedChapin · Apr 24, 2007

Sorry to burst your buble people but different sins do have different values but also different consequences. For example denile of the holy spirit is considered the ultimate sin which you cannot be forgiven. Also lying is not a grave a sin as murdering someone...yes if you are unforgiven both of them will cause you to go to hell but that doesn't imply that one sin is of the same value. Also its true that we will all sin for the rest of your lives by our fruits we will show we are different by not only dramatically reducing our sins but by not commiting abomaniations such as adultary and yes homosexulaity.

Jaisen · Apr 24, 2007

EZoolander said:
That's not an argument I tend to engage in. I'm not interested in having zealots quoting me scripture...because then it goes completely off tangent and just enables people looking to spew the hatred that's really in their heart.

I don't have a lot of respect for people that use God's word as a tool to spew divisive hatred for others. I believe that a lot of people *want* to hate, and find passages here and there to fuel that desire. Getting into a subject like that, while well intentioned, is far too philosophical for most...and never stays on track.

Tell me about it! I got jumped on straight away in the Non-denom forum for posting my opinions on homosexuality - Quite a few people were not even reading my posts properly, because if they did, they would have realised what my point was.

I'm working with teenagers in my region that feel they might be gay. I live in a very religious area and these kids are terrified that their families will reject them because their families rant against homosexuality all the time. Some kids have committed suicide over this very issue in years past. My job is to stop them from doing that and to give them some balance in their lives.

Jesus had 3 golden commandments - love one another, judge not and spread the gospel. My personal opinion is that it is not for any human being to be the judge. That is God's job - many anti-gays love to use poisonous diatribe backed by choice scriptures to justify their hateful and un-Christianly behaviour, then hide behind the Bible. I personally find that offensive...

So, I just have to agree to disagree with them and wait for the stones to hail down on my head...

eastcoast_bsc · Apr 24, 2007

Jaisen said:
Tell me about it! I got jumped on straight away in the Non-denom forum for posting my opinions on homosexuality - Quite a few people were not even reading my posts properly, because if they did, they would have realised what my point was.

I'm working with teenagers in my region that feel they might be gay. I live in a very religious area and these kids are terrified that their families will reject them because their families rant against homosexuality all the time. Some kids have committed suicide over this very issue in years past. My job is to stop them from doing that and to give them some balance in their lives.

Jesus had 3 golden commandments - love one another, judge not and spread the gospel. My personal opinion is that it is not for any human being to be the judge. That is God's job - many anti-gays love to use poisonous diatribe backed by choice scriptures to justify their hateful and un-Christianly behaviour, then hide behind the Bible. I personally find that offensive...

So, I just have to agree to disagree with them and wait for the stones to hail down on my head...

Another good post. I personally don't mind those who are against Homosexuality, but it is the hate that bothers me. It is often masqueraded or thinly veiled, but yet I can still see it and feel it. Like you mentioned about the young teenagers. Their issues are real and tangible, often what they hear and what they are experiencing in reality do not line up. I have seen posts in the forums from desperate young kids, in tears and it made me feel like crying, because I know the road that they must travel. I know the reality of that walk. Thanks for the post.

david_x · Apr 24, 2007

Sorry to burst your buble people but different sins do have different values but also different consequences. For example denile of the holy spirit is considered the ultimate sin which you cannot be forgiven. Also lying is not a grave a sin as murdering someone...yes if you are unforgiven both of them will cause you to go to hell but that doesn't imply that one sin is of the same value. Also its true that we will all sin for the rest of your lives by our fruits we will show we are different by not only dramatically reducing our sins but by not commiting abomaniations such as adultary and yes homosexulaity.

Lieing would be fact be worst in many ways were that true. Lieing can send someone to hell, destroy their spirit. How can killing someone compare to that?

Jesus had 3 golden commandments - love one another, judge not and spread the gospel. My personal opinion is that it is not for any human being to be the judge. That is God's job - many anti-gays love to use poisonous diatribe backed by choice scriptures to justify their hateful and un-Christianly behaviour, then hide behind the Bible. I personally find that offensive...

Christ had two golden rules Love God and Love your neighbor. Both of your other rules fall under those.

I too believe that hate is obviously wrong, I try hard to take the friendly, un-judgemental stance. However I will not lie to the person about what they are doing.

DZoolander · Apr 24, 2007

Abominations...yep. Homosexuality, lying...

...that shrimp dinner you had at Sizzler the other night. (Leviticus 11:9-11)

Like I said - people feel what they feel - and carry their own agendas and personal likes/dislikes into any debate. The things that they favor more - they find excuses for why they're acceptable. The more that they find it distasteful - the more rigid they become in their interpretations.

It's human nature. No minds are going to be changed. People are as they are.

I still say that to me, in a world full of cruelty, genocide, murder, politically motivated starvation, etc... to get your panties in an uproar and waste your precious God given time worrying about what someone does with the penis strikes me as just ludicrous. Worry about something that matters and that will truly help your fellow man.

Let God worry about what truly offends him.

david_x · Apr 24, 2007

...that shrimp dinner you had at Sizzler the other night. (Leviticus 11:9-11)

6I looked into it and saw four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, reptiles, and birds of the air. 7Then I heard a voice telling me, 'Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.'

8"I replied, 'Surely not, Lord! Nothing impure or unclean has ever entered my mouth.' 9"The voice spoke from heaven a second time, 'Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.' 10This happened three times, and then it was all pulled up to heaven again.

also says it refers to the uncercumcized.

BreadAlone · Apr 24, 2007

30 Ahab son of Omri did more evil in the eyes of the LORD than any of those before him. 31 He not only considered it trivial to commit the sins of Jeroboam son of Nebat, but he also married Jezebel daughter of Ethbaal king of the Sidonians, and began to serve Baal and worship him. 32 He set up an altar for Baal in the temple of Baal that he built in Samaria. 33 Ahab also made an Asherah pole and did more to provoke the LORD, the God of Israel, to anger than did all the kings of Israel before him.

Jesus answered, "You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above. Therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin."

Just wanted to show that Biblically all sins are not equal in God's eyes........

DZoolander · Apr 24, 2007

Either way, they're damned, right?

It's kind of like when you sentence someone to 10 life sentences without possibility of parole.

artybloke · Apr 25, 2007

Here's my take on homosexuality:

they're not doing me any harm, the gay people I know seem to be as nice as the non-gay people I know, where do I get off telling them how to live their lives, how to read the Bible, or whatever?

I've got too many logs in my own eyes to be bothered with the specks in someone else's.

SwordOfGod · Apr 28, 2007

6I looked into it and saw four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, reptiles, and birds of the air. 7Then I heard a voice telling me, 'Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.'

8"I replied, 'Surely not, Lord! Nothing impure or unclean has ever entered my mouth.' 9"The voice spoke from heaven a second time, 'Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.' 10This happened three times, and then it was all pulled up to heaven again.

also says it refers to the uncercumcized.

lol, I agree, the shrimp argument is not useful.

God bless and eternally abide in you all! Gay Pride!

Polycarp1 · Apr 28, 2007

Wonderful thought. Kudos!!

As for the degrees of sin, well, unless you're Catholic (where there is a defined hierarchy of sins), we're told that: (a) the wages of sin -- all sin -- is death, and (b) all sin save blasphemy against (not "denile" of) the Holy Spirit is forgivable. And that Christ died to atone for our sin, that we might be forgiven.

So if all sin is a capital crime, it scarcely makes any difference: if the punishment for one crime is to be electrocuted, and for another is to be shot by a firing squad, then hung on a gallows, then drawn and quartered, they both result in your death -- the fact that the vengeful get more thrills out of seeing the second carried out is immaterial to the person being executed.

And it might behoove those who see their role as determining the proper way to interpret what Scripture says about particular sins, and who is guilty of them -- it might be wise for those people to see what the Gospels say about how Jesus proposes to judge people who turn His Law into their own tool to judge their fellow man in His place.

Homosexuality - Here's how I look at it

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