Homosexuality from a christian point of veiw.

[Brennin]

Ancient Hebrew is the relevant language, as the truth of the NT is largely based on prophecies, theological principles, and so forth in the OT. You cannot understand the NT (in the sense that Christians understand it) without understanding the OT (especially since the NT is rich in quotes from the OT). That was not a false assertion.

The NT authors wrote in Greek and they relied on the Septuagint when referring to the OT. Your assertion was false.

You later asserted that Christians derive their truth purely from the NT

I did no such thing. My use of the word foremost was purposeful.

...you have no business complaining that I "falsely" asserted that, since it was actually a true assertion within the parameters you had set at that point.

No. You were in error then as now.

 

[Brennin]

Woah, woah. We ask you to demonstrate your knowledge, and you respond by linking to a theologian who agrees with you? Excuse me? Anybody on this site could Google up a theologian who agrees with them in a matter of seconds. That does not mean you are an expert. Why don't you demonstrate some of your knowledge?

I referred to A) my knowledge of relevant scholarship and B) my knowledge of Ancient Greek. The link I posted is an example of the former. If you want an example of my knowledge of the latter I refer you to this post.

 

[Ledifni]

The NT authors wrote in Greek and they relied on the Septuagint when referring to the OT. Your assertion was false.

It makes no difference. According to you, a proper understanding requires knowledge of the original. Your religion is originally based on the OT; the NT is essentially comments and updates to the OT. Understanding Greek is very useful but I would argue -- and many theologians have likewise argued -- that Hebrew is the important one, and the more difficult one to translate.

I did no such thing. My use of the word foremost was purposeful.

My apologies. I missed that word. In any case, if you agree that the Christian faith is at least partly based on the OT, how can you say that ancient Hebrew isn't relevant?

No. You were in error then as now.

I do not agree, and you have certainly not shown that I am. As I said, if you contend that knowledge of Greek is necessary to fully understand the NT (and I don't necessarily disagree with you), then why do you also contend that knowledge of Hebrew is not relevant?

And, AGAIN, this is still all beside the point. You categorically stated that "I am familiar with the relevant scholarship. You are not," with the strong implication that everybody who disagrees with you is simply wrong and should shut up and say, "Oh well, Brennin spoke. So much for our foolish ideas." You have been repeatedly asked for a demonstration of that great knowledge. You have repeatedly avoided the question. Will you answer it, or not?

 

[Ledifni]

Anyway, Brennin, I have thoroughly responded to your arguments about "relevant languages." You probably still disagree with me, and that's ok; but before we discuss that any further, I expect you to respond to the questions I asked you. I asked first and yet all I have done is respond to your repeated attempts to prove that I'm not worth talking to. You owe me a response to my original question about your scholarly knowledge. I will not respond further to your posts until you have given me a response to mine.

 

[Followers4christ]

Do you have a source for that claim? There are studies that say otherwise.

No i do not have a source,but i do know that most Christians take the law of God very seriously and they would rather please God than themselves now i said "most", some Christians are weak and they look at their own interests instead of God's.So far ive been to 7 churches in California,1 in Reno Nevada,4 in Boise Idaho and all the Christians i have met at those churches take God's command very seriously and take marriage very seriously.Now your source is probably just an athiest trying to discredit Christians.Does your source say divorce in general or justified divorce such as marital unfaithfulness?
As i said in my other post Christians can divorce but only for marital unfaithfulness.Do Christians divorce more than non Christians? Non Christians are not held down by any law therefore they have no law holding them down so most non Christians can marry,divorce,and remarry again without seeing anything wrong with it and if you were to run a poll who divorces more Christians or non Christians then you'd also have to take in account all the celebreties who are not Christians such as Britney Spears,Jennifer Lopez,and Drew Barrymore who all got divorced within a year.Athiest's are at least 75% more likely to get divorces than Christians.Christians that take God's law seriously are at least 85% less likely to divorce than a non Christian.God Bless

 

[ebia]

As i said in my other post Christians can divorce but only for marital unfaithfulness.Do Christians divorce more than non Christians? Non Christians are not held down by any law therefore they have no law holding them down so most non Christians can marry,divorce,and remarry again without seeing anything wrong with it and if you were to run a poll who divorces more Christians or non Christians then you'd also have to take in account all the celebreties who are not Christians such as Britney Spears,Jennifer Lopez,and Drew Barrymore who all got divorced within a year.Athiest's are at least 75% more likely to get divorces than Christians.Christians that take God's law seriously are at least 85% less likely to divorce than a non Christian.God Bless

So how do you explain the fact that conservative christians have a higher divorce rate than non-christians?

 

[Followers4christ]

So how do you explain the fact that conservative christians have a higher divorce rate than non-christians?

Like i said in my other post those polls are flawed its just athiest trying to discredit Christians,because true Christians are held down by the law of God and they would rather please God than themselves.
Like i said in my other post if you want to do a poll who has a high divorce rate you would have to include celebrities such as Britney Spears,Jennifer Lopez,and Drew Barrymore who all got divorced within a year.I will gaurantee that non Christians will have a higher rate of divorce than true Christians.
God Bless.

 

[ebia]

Like i said in my other post those polls are flawed its just athiest trying to discredit Christians,because true Christians are held down by the law of God and they would rather please God than themselves.
Like i said in my other post if you want to do a poll who has a high divorce rate you would have to include celebrities such as Britney Spears,Jennifer Lopez,and Drew Barrymore who all got divorced within a year.I will gaurantee that non Christians will have a higher rate of divorce than true Christians.
God Bless.

Sounds like you want to skew the poll until you get the answer you want.

Good statistics is good statistics. If you want to demonstrate that those polls are flawed, you need to demonstrate where the statistics is flawed, not ask for specific individuals to be included (which would make the statistics flawed).

 

[dudeoffaith1]

Do Conservative Christians really have higher divorce rates than non Christians?

 

[dudeoffaith1]

Do Conservative Christians really have higher divorce rates than non Christians?

 

[ebia]

Yes
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_dira.htm

 

[MortonGneiss]

Do Conservative Christians really have higher divorce rates than non Christians?

No, they are close to identical if taken as a whole. Protestants are only about 5% more likely to get divorced. Catholics are about 10% less likely. And if a Pentecostal ever makes the claim that Christians are less likely to divorce, tell them they are full of *explitive deleted*!

http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=BarnaUpdate&BarnaUpdateID=170

“If we eliminate those who became Christians after their divorce, the divorce figure among born again adults drops to 34% - statistically identical to the figure among non-Christians.”

"The survey showed that divorce varied somewhat by a person’s denominational affiliation. Catholics were substantially less likely than Protestants to get divorced (25% versus 39%, respectively). Among the largest Protestant groups, those most likely to get divorced were Pentecostals (44%) while Presbyterians had the fewest divorces (28%)"

 

[outlaw]

Like i said in my other post those polls are flawed its just athiest trying to discredit Christians,because true Christians are held down by the law of God and they would rather please God than themselves.
Like i said in my other post if you want to do a poll who has a high divorce rate you would have to include celebrities such as Britney Spears,Jennifer Lopez,and Drew Barrymore who all got divorced within a year.I will gaurantee that non Christians will have a higher rate of divorce than true Christians.
God Bless.

Simply because the studies show something you do not personally like that does not make the studies biased or flawed. Pretending such without actual evidence is just false witness.



The divorce rate among conservative Christians is well established and the highest in the nation.





A study by the Barna Research Group shows that conservative Christians have the highest divorce rates in the nation. The survey found:

that conservative Protestant Christians, on average, have the highest divorce rate, while mainline Christians have a much lower rate.

that atheists and agnostics have the lowest divorce rate of all.

the highest divorce rate among these Christians is in the 50-70 year age range.

the highest divorce rate take place in the south

the lowest divorce rate in the north east.



The data showed that the highest divorce rates were found in the Bible Belt. "Tennessee, Arkansas, Alabama and Oklahoma round out the Top Five in frequency of divorce...the divorce rates in these conservative states are roughly 50 percent above the national average" of 4.2/1000 people.11 southern states (AL, AR, AZ, FL, GA, MS, NC, NM, OK, SC and TX averaged 5.1/1000 people. Nine states in the Northeast (CT, MA, ME, NH, NJ, NY, PA, RI, VT) averaged only 3.5/1000 people.



Christians are more likely to experience divorce than are non-Christians," Barna Research Group, 1999-DEC-21, at: http://www.barna.org/cgi-bin/

 

[Baten]

I see it as moral as anything else. I guess.

 

[Followers4christ]

Sounds like you want to skew the poll until you get the answer you want.

Good statistics is good statistics. If you want to demonstrate that those polls are flawed, you need to demonstrate where the statistics is flawed, not ask for specific individuals to be included (which would make the statistics flawed).

The Barna Research Group Only interviewed 3,854 adults and not all the 3,854 were Christians but also atheist.Now if i were to interview 3,854 Could i make it look like atheist has a higher devorce rate even if it weren't true?of course i could.All i would have to do is go to las vegas where atheist get hitched and in 24 hours get devorced.Would that be a true estament of atheist in General? No it wouldn't.Also remember that just because they say they're a Christian doesnt mean they are.A couple thousand will never give you a true estament of atheist and Christian devorce rate accurately.If you want a accurate poll then that poll has to interview at least a couple million people.
If someone did a poll on celebrities Christian and atheist to see who had a higher devorce rate it would end up atheist 99% devorce rate and Christians 1% devorce rate.Most non Christian celebrities don't make it past a year.God Bless

8 months - Elizabeth Taylor and Nicky Hilton

8 months - Jennifer Lopez and Cris Judd

7 months - Courtney Thorne-Smith and Andrew Conrad

5 months - Shannen Doherty and Ashley Hamilton

5 months -Carmen Electra and Dennis Rodman

4 months, 24 days - Charlie Sheen and Donna Peele

3 months, 15 days - Lisa Marie Presley and Nicolas Cage

32 days - Ernest Borgnine and Ethel Merman

30 days - Drew Barrymore and Jeremy Thomas

9 days - Cher and Gregg Allman

8 days - Dennis Hopper and Michelle Phillips

6 hours - Rudolph Valentino & Jean Acker



a couple Hours-Britney Spears and Jason Allen

 

[ebia]

The Barna Research Group Only interviewed 3,854 adults and not all the 3,854 were Christians but also atheist.Now if i were to interview 3,854 Could i make it look like atheist has a higher devorce rate even if it weren't true?of course i could.All i would have to do is go to las vegas where atheist get hitched and in 24 hours get devorced.Would that be a true estament of atheist in General? No it wouldn't.Also remember that just because they say they're a Christian doesnt mean they are.A couple thousand will never give you a true estament of atheist and Christian devorce rate accurately.If you want a accurate poll then that poll has to interview at least a couple million people.

Wrong. A few thousand properly selected can you a statistically valid answer.

Serious statistical research publishes its methods, so that they can be checked. There are more than enough people with a vested interest in showing this poll to be incorrect to ensure that if there were any flaws in its methodology they would have been shouted out very loud.

If someone did a poll on celebrities Christian and atheist to see who had a higher devorce rate it would end up atheist 99% devorce rate and Christians 1% devorce rate.Most non Christian celebrities don't make it past a year.God Bless

If it did, it would still be meaningless because celebrities do not reflect the population.

8 months - Elizabeth Taylor and Nicky Hilton

8 months - Jennifer Lopez and Cris Judd

7 months - Courtney Thorne-Smith and Andrew Conrad

5 months - Shannen Doherty and Ashley Hamilton

5 months -Carmen Electra and Dennis Rodman

4 months, 24 days - Charlie Sheen and Donna Peele

3 months, 15 days - Lisa Marie Presley and Nicolas Cage

32 days - Ernest Borgnine and Ethel Merman

30 days - Drew Barrymore and Jeremy Thomas

9 days - Cher and Gregg Allman

8 days - Dennis Hopper and Michelle Phillips

6 hours - Rudolph Valentino & Jean Acker



a couple Hours-Britney Spears and Jason Allen

Has as much statistical validity as a block of cheese.

Your argument is still no more than "I don't like the poll's results, so they are wrong."

 

[Montalban]

Wrong. A few thousand properly selected can you a statistically valid answer.

Your argument is still no more than "I don't like the poll's results, so they are wrong."

Several people here seem to be mixing up the terms...
a) "Born-again Christian"
and
b) "Conservative Christian"

People are using a survey of a) to examine behaviours of b)

But the most telling factor is that the site itself notes...

“Born again Christians” were defined in these surveys as people who said they have made “a personal commitment to Jesus Christ that is still important in their life today” and who also indicated they believe that when they die they will go to Heaven because they had confessed their sins and had accepted Jesus Christ as their savior. Respondents were not asked to describe themselves as “born again.” Being classified as “born again” is not dependent upon church or denominational affiliation or involvement.
http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=BarnaUpdate&BarnaUpdateID=170

Thus any person could be termed 'born again' who isn't necessarily so.

 

[Montalban]

Simply because the studies show something you do not personally like that does not make the studies biased or flawed. Pretending such without actual evidence is just false witness.



The divorce rate among conservative Christians is well established and the highest in the nation.





A study by the Barna Research Group shows that conservative Christians have the highest divorce rates in the nation. The survey found:

that conservative Protestant Christians, on average, have the highest divorce rate, while mainline Christians have a much lower rate.

that atheists and agnostics have the lowest divorce rate of all.

the highest divorce rate among these Christians is in the 50-70 year age range.

the highest divorce rate take place in the south

the lowest divorce rate in the north east.



The data showed that the highest divorce rates were found in the Bible Belt. "Tennessee, Arkansas, Alabama and Oklahoma round out the Top Five in frequency of divorce...the divorce rates in these conservative states are roughly 50 percent above the national average" of 4.2/1000 people.11 southern states (AL, AR, AZ, FL, GA, MS, NC, NM, OK, SC and TX averaged 5.1/1000 people. Nine states in the Northeast (CT, MA, ME, NH, NJ, NY, PA, RI, VT) averaged only 3.5/1000 people.



Christians are more likely to experience divorce than are non-Christians," Barna Research Group, 1999-DEC-21, at: http://www.barna.org/cgi-bin/

In the 'poll' (site I've referenced in post above) they don't even use the word 'conservative'.

It's interesting though that they themselves admit
Commitment to Christianity Depends On How It Is Measured
http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=BarnaUpdateNarrow&BarnaUpdateID=203

 

[Montalban]

Have we moved from the OP?

 

[MortonGneiss]

In the 'poll' (site I've referenced in post above) they don't even use the word 'conservative'.

It's interesting though that they themselves admit
Commitment to Christianity Depends On How It Is Measured
[/QUOTE]

Conservative or not, Christians as a whole have an almost identical divorce rate to non-Christians. Which is really the point, as far as I'm concerned. Even Catholics who are 10% less likely don't have a whole lot of room for stone flinging.