Homosexuality - A Challenge

[blondofborg]

This is a little challenge I laid down to a fundamentalist forum I used to post to. They couldn't answer it. They had no clue how to respond. They had no solutions.

The question is this. What is wrong with homosexuality?

Now the rules are pretty much common sense. You cannot use the bible (though its views on homosexuality are open to interpretation), as most people out there don't believe in it.

You CAN use arguments such as ones concerning HIV, monogamy, alternative sex and other issues, but these won't get you very far as these can hardly be seen as exclusively gay or universally gay traits.

I look forward to seeing if we get ONE real answer. I'll post my views later in the topic.

What is wrong with homosexuality?

 

[GTX]

Well for one the anus is not equipped with lubricating glands to accomodate anal intercourse, making a valid argument that it is not natural.

 

[Outspoken]

"The question is this. What is wrong with homosexuality?"

Hmm...besides the fact that acceptance of it being correct leads do the degradation of biblical based morals?

*edit*what you're basically asking is, throw morality out the door, all God's views out the door, now as a christian tell me what's wrong with it. LOL. Answer a math question without using math..

I'm thinking they answered you, but you just didn't like their answers.

 

 

 

[I can eat 50 eggs]

Why would you come to a Christian site, knowing full well that the people here believe in the Bible, and say "you can't use the Bible?"

I have a question for you...

Why shouldn't I be able to chop off your arm?

Tell me why, but you can't use any laws, since laws vary from place to place, and are not universal.

 

[GTX]

Ummm, Outspoken, I don't think that's seebs, I think the avatar threw you off.

blondofborg, I gave you a reasonable answer that doesn't have anything to do with the bible, can you address the lack of anal lubrication required for natural anal intercourse?

Oh yeah, there are other ways for gays to pleasure each other, but that doesn't make it natural or right, for instance you could easily pleasure a donkey, do you find anything wrong with that?

And no need for games, I see you lurking, come and answer the challenge.

 

[Outspoken]

"Ummm, Outspoken, I don't think that's seebs, I think the avatar threw you off."

i think you are absolutely right. My appologies to seebs and blondofborg.

 

[blondofborg]

GTX: Are you aware that many heterosexuals often enjoy anal intercourse and that many homosexuals never do? Are you also aware that anal intercourse greatly decreases the risk of prostate cancer in men by massaging the prostate if it's done correctly?

Outspoken: You want non-Christians to accept your view that homosexuality is wrong, and you expect them to take nothing but the bible as 'evidence'? You misunderstand the topic. I am asking for arguments based on real world fact. The bible cannot be proven beyond blind faith. However, if your position opposing homosexuality is so strong, then surely you must have mountains of evidence to support it! Well, don't you? I'm waiting.

50 Eggs: Fact is laws are in place and you're accountable to them. I am not accountable to your bible. Fact also, is that I am asking a question, not doing a destructive or violent act such as the one you describe. Get the difference now? Actually this raises an interesting point. Most of the 'sins' in the bible fall into one of two categories. Those harming ourselves, and those harming others. Yet homosexuality falls into neither one. Nobody can explain that one away either!

So, still waiting on that valid answer to the question.

 

[Outspoken]

"The bible cannot be proven beyond blind faith"

neither can science, so what's your point?

"However, if your position opposing homosexuality is so strong, then surely you must have mountains of evidence to support it! "

Its a moral question, for christians the moral authority is God, and he says its wrong.

without using morals, you can't make moral desicions.

"I am not accountable to your bible. "

Using your theories I can buy an island, invite people there and kill them since I'm not accountable to the laws of other countries....in other words your logic is WRONG.

 

[blondofborg]

Hmm... I don't think beastiality is a mutually consented act GTX! The very idea of comparing it to homosexuality absolutely boggles the mind!

As for you Outspoken, if you claim the bible excuses homophobia, then I guess it's also okay that gay youth are on average three times more likely to commit suicide than straight youth. I guess it's okay that people get bashed and assaulted for being gay. I guess it's okay that people can lose their jobs and homes over it. After all, the bible says all gays should be executed anyway, and as Christians, we have to believe everything the bible says without scrutinising it don't we?

See the point now? The bible in itself is not defensible, as it advocates the most deplorable acts!

 

[I can eat 50 eggs]

Originally posted by blondofborg

50 Eggs: Fact is laws are in place and you're accountable to them. I am not accountable to your bible.

We'll see about that......

 

It just doesn't make sense why you post this question here, you are saying

"I know you base your life, your faith, your morals by this book, but, I want you to tell me why you believe that without using that book"

 

this discussion is like teaching a pig to sing.  It wastes everyones time, and annoys the pig.

 

[TheBear]

Good Lord! Not another homosexuality thread.

 

[juiblex]

Originally posted by GTX
Well for one the anus is not equipped with lubricating glands to accomodate anal intercourse, making a valid argument that it is not natural.

ok, so youve immediately jumped to the misguided notion that homosexuality = anal intercourse. wrong. anal sex is a preference, homosexual and heterosexual people alike either enjoy it or they dont.

b) what about lesbians?

 

[I can eat 50 eggs]

Originally posted by blondofborg

 Fact also, is that I am asking a question, not doing a destructive act such as the one you describe.

 

In your opinion it's not destructive, If I can't hold you to my moral standards, why should you hold me to yours? 

 

[blondofborg]

Hmm... just remember you drew that comparison and not me LOL.

But it's obvious that Christians don't hold to everything in the bible. As more and more elements of the bible are shown to be illogical such as abstaining from eating certain foods, or not wearing clothes of mixed fibre, or endorsing slavery, Christians have adapted their views and morality over time. Yet in the fact of all the evidence that homosexuality is not only natural, but innert, and amazingly common, and in spite of the fact that homosexuality does absolutely no harm to them or their families, many Christians are STILL holding onto the archaic view that this is evil, and if then their child turns out to be gay, all kinds of problems arise.

So perhaps it's not an ignorance or dismissal of the bible that's required. But rather filtering it through common sense, as has been done many times before, and needs to be done again.

 

[GTX]

What is Unnatural?

Abnormal.

Uncommon.

Things made by artiface (manmade).

Out of place/out of order.

An activity that doesn't fulfil it's natural function or design.


Obviously aside from the bible, there is a design and function of natural or normal human sexuality.

Just because 2 consenting people of the same sex feel compelled to engage in any kind of sex does not make it natural.

We can further define natural on human terms as not being recognized as normal or natural by a majority of the populace.

If we cannot use God or the bible as a point of morality, then lets use the majority of humans to establish morality.

What about the Homosexuals who attempt to ‘pick up’ straight members of their own sex, causing considerable uneasiness.

Having to deal with a homosexual on such an insignificant occasion as buying bread, can easily make one’s skin crawl, if not ruin one’s day. The feminine voice, dress, coupled with their feminine movements, can provide considerable incentive to avoid such people.

I have thought about this on numerous occasions and if the gay couple in question are seriously committed to one another and do not flaunt or go around hitting on strangers, then that is their own business. If this was always the case then the issue of homosexuality wouldn't be so strong and possibily non existent.

No amount of protesting, lobbying or complaining will further 'mental' acceptance by the people. People are coerced into making and accepting laws to recognize homosexuals in marriage a legal proposition by politicians and or homosexual rallies or outright flaunting of this lifestyle.

However I don't care what 2 individuals do in the privacy of their own home.

Oh yeah, anal sex IMO, is condoned and natural between married heterosexuals, this is the difference though, married heterosexual couples reserve this right because the bond of matrimony is seen as both legal and moral by a majority of human population.

Homosexuality for the most part is not. Yet anyway.

 

[GTX]

what about lesbians?

Want my opinion? See above.

And quit putting thoughts into my head!

 

[Outspoken]

"But it's obvious that Christians don't hold to everything in the bible. As more and more elements of the bible are shown to be illogical such as abstaining from eating certain foods, or not wearing clothes of mixed fibre, or endorsing slavery, Christians have adapted their views and morality over time. "

I think you haven't read the whole book there bub. The bible clearly says you can eat those 'certain foods' and wear those 'mixed fibre cloths, and clearly says the westernized view of slavery is wrong. Please don't read some internet document and take it as correct without going to the prime source.

 

[GTX]

Originally posted by TheBear
Good Lord! Not another homosexuality thread.

I know what's going on? I think I'm going to take a poll and see how many members are actually homosexual. I wonder how many would be honest though.....

Much support, but can they admit it?

 

[I can eat 50 eggs]

Originally posted by blondofborg
Hmm... just remember you drew that comparison and not me LOL.

granted that the example was extreme, but it points to the fallacy of your argument. 

Originally posted by blondofborg
But it's obvious that Christians don't hold to everything in the bible. As more and more elements of the bible are shown to be illogical such as abstaining from eating certain foods, or not wearing clothes of mixed fibre, or endorsing slavery, Christians have adapted their views and morality over time. Yet in the fact of all the evidence that homosexuality is not only natural, but innert, and amazingly common, and in spite of the fact that homosexuality does absolutely no harm to them or their families, many Christians are STILL holding onto the archaic view that this is evil, and if then their child turns out to be gay, all kinds of problems arise.

So perhaps it's not an ignorance or dismissal of the bible that's required. But rather filtering it through common sense, as has been done many times before, and needs to be done again.

the first 2 examples you gave were repealed (see Paul, and his vision.....) so of course they are no longer followed.  You miss the point of the "endorsement" of slavery.  It was to find joy and service in the lord regardless of your position.

 

I don't understand the argument that homosexuality is "natural" or "innert" or your born that way.  I have no argument with any of those statements.  However, my response as a Christian is "so what"  Some people are born kleptomaniacs with a compulsion to steal.  Does that mean that is acceptable? 

 

The fact is that there is nothing we can tell you to answer your question, because you throw out the very reason we object, or any way you can convince us to change our beliefs.

 

[GTX]

Let's leave the bible out of it, let blondofborg define standard of morals.