Homosexual Acts - Wrong Or Not?

[Phinehas2]

Dear David Brider,

Not necessarily.

Well yes they are the verse used to condemn same-sex sex. All you have responded with is your reasons why you don’t believe them, my point is the verses I and millions cite which condemn same-sex sex are the ones that condemn same-sex sex

I would add however that we have been through the reasoning in your reply already. Leviticus 18 says do not do these things the pagans do. Whether its temple shrine or not God’s word says to His people don’t do them. Besides if its just about shrine prostitution then how can incest and bestiality and same-sex sex be ok if not associated with shrine prostitution?

It's been misinterpreted all over the shop by all manner of people down the centuries, and not just in this particular issue.

In fact when we look at all the earliest manuscripts the translations have been made from we see any misinterpretation is merely disbelieving or ignoring the translation.

...which itself relies on the assumption that the sin of

Sodom was actually homosexual sex.

Which is what the text tell us, you know the meaning of the text is the meaning of the text.

Not really sure what your point is here

I know it is one of the reasons you don’t believe the Bible, if you could see you would understand
it’s a problem with your logic. I am using the modern English word love and its meanings. There are four or more words in Greek which can be encompassed with love and two of them are described and demonstrated in the NT. One of them, God’s love ‘agape’ has a specific meaning and is not only a narrower meaning than todays meaning of ‘love’ it is fast becoming not the meaning at all because it is sacrificial love. The KIV use of charity instead of love in places may be better
All you have done is make assumptions, there is no proof for your assumptions

Well, I'm more inclined to think otherwise. But anyway, as long as we're both believing the same Bible, that's OK.

Well you aren’t believing the Bible on this issue as you are making assumptions the text doesn’t mean what it says.
The Bible countenances man/woman faithful marriage as God’s creation purpose and offers celibacy as the alternative (ie Matt 19, 1 Cor 7) It makes condemnations of sex outside marriage in ‘porneia’ and ‘moicheia’ fornication and adultery, and it makes condemnations of same-sex sex, 1 Cor 6, 1 Tim 1, Romans 1, 2 Peter 2 and Jude 1.
All you have done is assume God’s purpose isn’t His only purpose, assume marriage and celibacy aren’t the only options, assume not all sex outside marriage is error and assume that not all same-sex sex is error.
The pro- same-sex sex argument is baseless and merely disbelief.

 

[Zaac]

Nope, nothing to do with idol worship. Just an acknowledgement that different people have different interpretations and understandings of the Scripture passages in question.

David.

Yep, everything to do with idol worship and your own self-important belief that God amends his Truth based upon your or anybody's interpretation.

Just shameless.

 

[TheGMan]

Same-sex sexual acts are very often wrong. This is made clear by numerous verses from Scripture - for instance Mark 12:29-31, John 13:34-35 and 15:12 and Galatians 5:14.

 

[OllieFranz]

.

 

[OllieFranz]

Same-sex sexual acts are very often wrong. This is made clear by numerous verses from Scripture - for instance Mark 12:29-31, John 13:34-35 and 15:12 and Galatians 5:14.

[bible]Mark 12:29-31[/bible]
[bible]John 13:34-35[/bible]
[bible]John 15:12[/bible]
[bible]Galatians 5:14[/bible]

How do verses commanding love prove that a loving act is sin?​

 

[SpiritDriven]

Good point Spirit Driven,
this true, anyone looking at themselves in terms of their sexuality is looking at themselves in terms of their flesh not in terms of the Spirit.

No one is claiming they can change the sexuality of a person, some are claiming God can't an some are claiming God can.

God does not change what he has made for his purpose...

Example..God creates a person with Homosexual sexuality...this suits a higher purpose of Gods in the end.

Our God is so Powefull that nothing exists outside of his will...it is just an endless void.

Homosexuals and Bi Sexuals and Heterosexuals exist soley and only for the Same reason the 4 Great Religions of the World exist.... by the will of God alone...or they would not exist at all.


Do you see what a waste of time it is walking after the Flesh or trying to correct the Flesh....this does not lead to immorality....you are the way God made you....and nothing will change that...for that very reason.

The Soveriegn will of God prevails in every instance no exceptions.


Peace

 

[Ohioprof]

The "homosexual act" of loving one's committed spouse is not wrong. It's a joy and a blessing from God.

 

[SpiritDriven]

[bible]Mark 12:29-31[/bible]
[bible]John 13:34-35[/bible]
[bible]John 15:12[/bible]
[bible]Galatians 5:14[/bible]

How do verses commanding love prove that a loving act is sin?​

These verses show that those who condemn a person because God made them with a different sexual preference....do not have the life in them.

They do not Love their Neighbour or brother....for any reason at all.

They dont see the first ressurection....and actualy end up before the Great White Throne for Judging another...so they will be Judged !

 

[David Brider]

Yep, everything to do with idol worship and your own self-important belief that God amends his Truth based upon your or anybody's interpretation.

Just shameless.

Well, it's very kind of you to try to guess my motivations.

You're wrong, on every significant level.

But thanks anyway.

David.

 

[Phinehas2]

Hi SpiritDriven,

These verses show that those who condemn a person because God made them with a different sexual preference....do not have the life in them.

Actually you dont believe the Bible either because without repentance in Jesus Christ we all die in our sins anyway, its Jesus Christ who gives life. Jesus Christ said he is the way the truth and the life, His words are spirit and they are life. God didnt make people with same sex attraction, in the beginning He made them male and female so a man shall leave his father and mother and be united with his wife, the knowledge of good and evil came in disobedience.
Secondly, non-one here is judging others, they are judging the sin others are promoting. We are all guilty of sin and we dont mind discussing it. You either haven't read or understood the argiments.

They do not Love their Neighbour or brother....for any reason at all.

one cant love ones brother if first one doesnt love God. To know how to love ones brother on ehas to know how God loves.

They dont see the first ressurection....and actualy end up before the Great White Throne for Judging another...so they will be Judged !

That applies to all of us, we will all have to account for what we have said and done, when it comes to what we have said I hope I am speaking the truth according to the Bilcial testimony of the One who is truth and spoke it.

 

[David Brider]

Well yes they are the verse used to condemn same-sex sex.

The verses used by you and others to condemn same-gender sex. Whilst other people point out that your interpretation and application of those verses may not be correct. So, I need to work out which interpretation is the correct one.

All you have responded with is your reasons why you don’t believe them...

Oh, I believe them. I don't believe that they mean what you take them to mean, though. For example, the two verses in Leviticus about "lying with a man as one lies with a woman" clearly only refer to male/male sex (if indeed the notion of "lying with a man" is meant to be interpreted sexually at all - it's quite possible to lie down with someone in a non-sexual sense, after all), and so have nothing to say about female/female sex. And I'm not convinced that they're meant to have universal application, rather than referring to specific situations in which the Israelite people found themselves during the times in which those passages were written.

Besides if its just about shrine prostitution then how can incest and bestiality and same-sex sex be ok if not associated with shrine prostitution?

I suspect that they can be. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong but certainly in the cases of incest and bestiality I'm unaware of any verses referring to them outside of Leviticus, and although the notion of them would quite frankly squick me out, I'm not sure I can think of a good explanation for why they'd be intrinsically a bad thing. Same as with same-gender sex. In fact, about the only two sexual behaviours that I can think that I'd describe as bad per se (rape and paedophilia) I'm not sure I can think of any specific Biblical text to condemn them (although as they non-consensual they'd almost certainly fall foul of Jesus' commandment to love our neighbours as ourselves).

In fact when we look at all the earliest manuscripts the translations have been made from we see any misinterpretation is merely disbelieving or ignoring the translation.

I think that's an oversimplification. You'll find Christians who quite genuinely believe, and can back up their beliefs with Biblical texts, in pacifism and in military action; in supporting and in opposing the death penalty; that we're saved by grace and that we're saved by works; that we should only baptise beliving adults and that we can baptise children. Obviously there's room within the Biblical texts themselves for multiple interpretations of a number of key issues.

I know it is one of the reasons you don’t believe the Bible...

Actually, I do believe the Bible.

David.

 

[lincolngreen50]

Hi everyone. Are homosexual acts wrong or not? What is your reasoning behind believing the way you do?

Trick question, very clever. You never even asked if it was a sin or not, just asked if its right or wrong.

 

[Ohioprof]

Trick question, very clever. You never even asked if it was a sin or not, just asked if its right or wrong.

Christians standing in judgment of gay people is certainly wrong. Christians should either accept gay people as we are and welcome us as fellow Christians and fellow human beings, or leave gay people alone.

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear David,
Originally Posted by Phinehas2
Well yes they are the verse used to condemn same-sex sex.

The verses used by you and others to condemn same-gender sex.

No the verses that condemn same-sex sex which are used by myself and others. And not ‘same gender sex’ either.

Whilst other people point out that your interpretation and application of those verses may not be correct.

And we point out that the text says what it says and we interpret it to mean what it says.

So, I need to work out which interpretation is the correct one.

No, no, you have again assumed its about interpretation, that’s not the criteria we use. However we have pointed out your interpretation bears no relation to what the text says, so it isnt even interpretation but disbelief.

Oh, I believe them. I don't believe that they mean what you take them to mean, though.

But what I take them to mean is what they say, so you don’t believe them.
But my main point in saying all you have responded with is your reasons why you don’t believe them. Is to show you have merely discussed the verses we use to countenance man woman union and same-sex condemnation, you haven’t provided any verse that countenance same-sex sex. If you did provide a few we could deny your interpretation and we would be all square, and you haven’t you have lost the debate.
..
Besides if its just about shrine prostitution then how can incest and bestiality and same-sex sex be ok if not associated with shrine prostitution?

I suspect that they can be.

You suspect but you surely don’t know. Let me ask you then how come a man shall leave his father and mother and be united with his wife when his wife is his mother ? Leviticus 18:7
Sorry that doesn’t make sense. And indeed it’s the same with Romans 1, greed and malice are not just wrong when associated with temple or idol worship, and Leviticus 18 says about these things 'Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. Even the land was defiled; so I punished it for its sin, and the land vomited out its inhabitants. “.. " 'Everyone who does any of these detestable things—such persons must be cut off from their people.”

) ..they'd almost certainly fall foul of Jesus' commandment to love our neighbours as ourselves).

but we aren’t referring to love, we are referring to sex, cant you tell the difference?
Sorry but to love ones neighbour one needs to know what love is and without the greatest commend which you forgot to mention, to love God, one cant know how to love. Also Jesus said that His disciples are to love as He loved and the only sex He referred to as ok was God’s purpose in creation for man and woman to be together.

Actually, I do believe the Bible.

Actually I have demonstrated you don’t.

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear Ohioprof,
thats correct Christians dont judge people

 

[SpiritDriven]

There is no justifiable reason to debate Sexuality in the first place....the fate of all human kind has already been decreed by God.....

In Jesus own words from John 12

32 And I, if I should be exalted out of the earth, shall be drawing all to Myself."

case closed

 

[lincolngreen50]

Christians standing in judgment of gay people is certainly wrong. Christians should either accept gay people as we are and welcome us as fellow Christians and fellow human beings, or leave gay people alone.

I welcome you as a fellow human being,God teaches all Christians to have compassion which I do.
Christians do sin, there is no doubt about that we are all imperfect.
I try with all my heart to keep to the Word of God and follow Jesus`s teaching,I believe in the Resurrection of Jesus Christ.I have asked him to forgive me of my sins.
What I cannot agree with is one who continues to sin and dosn`t believe that one is sinning.
I believe this is a grave mistake.
Scripture lays down Gods Word,I know that you dont believe in that but I Do and the most Christians agree with me.
If one dosn`t believe that they are sinning by practising homosexuality and the majority of Christians believe they are, then I believe it would be logical for that person to come to the conclusion that homosexuality is a sin.
I believe that those who practise Homosexuality are putting themselves first and God Second.
I do except those who practise Homosexuality as a Human being but until they recognise their sin and repent they cannot call themselves Christians.

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear SpiritDriven,

There is no justifiable reason to debate Sexuality in the first place....the fate of all human kind has already been decreed by God.....

Yes, heaven or hell, eternal life or eternal death. Mark 6, John 3, Matthew 25 etc.

In Jesus own words from John 12

32 And I, if I should be exalted out of the earth, shall be drawing all to Myself."

yes 33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.

case reopened.

 

[Ohioprof]

Dear Ohioprof,
thats correct Christians dont judge people

Good. Then I hope you and I will be friends, as you and I will not judge each other. I respect your commitment to your faith. I don't agree with everything you think, but I respect your commitment.

 

[Ohioprof]

I welcome you as a fellow human being,God teaches all Christians to have compassion which I do.
Christians do sin, there is no doubt about that we are all imperfect.
I try with all my heart to keep to the Word of God and follow Jesus`s teaching,I believe in the Resurrection of Jesus Christ.I have asked him to forgive me of my sins.
What I cannot agree with is one who continues to sin and dosn`t believe that one is sinning.
I believe this is a grave mistake.
Scripture lays down Gods Word,I know that you dont believe in that but I Do and the most Christians agree with me.
If one dosn`t believe that they are sinning by practising homosexuality and the majority of Christians believe they are, then I believe it would be logical for that person to come to the conclusion that homosexuality is a sin.
I believe that those who practise Homosexuality are putting themselves first and God Second.
I do except those who practise Homosexuality as a Human being but until they recognise their sin and repent they cannot call themselves Christians.

I disagree with you about this last point. I do not believe that being gay is a sin, and there is nothing to repent for.