Holy Light in Jerualem

[Gnisios]

Beloved brothers and sisters, please keep the Orthodox Church and believers of Jerusalem in your prayers. The situation there isn't good at all, as the Israeli government stands by + Irineos but the Arabs support + Theofilos.

Rumours have it that there is gonna be a great fight over who will bring out the Holy Light during Easter. In fact, both sides are taking extreme and un-Orthodox measures (if I may say) against each other. I personally don't care about church politics (which caused the problems at first place) but I would be very sad if we fail short on upholding a good Orthodox testimony to the visitors and faithfull in Jerusalem.

 

[theoforos]

Wasn't there once an occasion that some others went in there to bring out the light, while the Orthodox patriarch had to stay outside and the light flew through the wall to the Orthodox patriarch? I wonder if something similar might happen this time?

 

[Gnisios]

Wasn't there once an occasion that some others went in there to bring out the light, while the Orthodox patriarch had to stay outside and the light flew through the wall to the Orthodox patriarch? I wonder if something similar might happen this time?

I don't know dear brother for I've never heard of it. I only hope it won't happen this way again as we seek peace and Orthodox ethos.

 

[Oblio]

Wasn't there once an occasion that some others went in there to bring out the light, while the Orthodox patriarch had to stay outside and the light flew through the wall to the Orthodox patriarch? I wonder if something similar might happen this time?

Yes, when the Armenian's (or was it the Copts ?) bribed the Muslims to keep the Orthodox outside. The charred crack in a column is just to the left of the main door as you enter.

 

[Gnisios]

Yes, when the Armenian's (or was it the Copts ?) bribed the Muslims to keep the Orthodox outside. The charred crack in a column is just to the left of the main door as you enter.

Oh that story! Now I remember.....it was the Armenians

 

[theoforos]

I don't know dear brother for I've never heard of it. I only hope it won't happen this way again as we seek peace and Orthodox ethos.

Yes, Gnisie, let's hope for a better solution this time. However, it'd be kind of interesting if something like the thing that happened with the Armenians would happen again, and how it should be interpreted if it happened...

 

[Gnisios]

Yes, Gnisie, let's hope for a better solution this time. However, it'd be kind of interesting if something like the thing that happened with the Armenians would happen again, and how it should be interpreted if it happened...

Well you know my brother that Armenians cause problems each year. They always try to get in first and bring out the Holy Light. It's an old conflict that has to stop as soon as possible.

 

[Shubunkin]

I read that story too. Wow... and also how it lights up people's candles with a touchable flame.

 

[repentant]

Holy Light video

 

[Annoula]

i've read in an Orthodox site that the Orthodox Patriarch plus an Armenian enter the Holy Grave.

is this true???

i suppose that the "christian" way would be to let whoever want to get in and let the Holy Light speak of Itself.

just my opinion...

 

[Matrona]

i've read in an Orthodox site that the Orthodox Patriarch plus an Armenian enter the Holy Grave.

is this true???

No, it's not true.

I got into an editing war with a non-Chalcedonian over this on OrthodoxWiki--apparently, personal testimony from the Patriarch of Jerusalem that specifically, unambiguously states that the Armenian patriarch is OUTSIDE THE TOMB, can't possibly be accurate enough, we have to bring in a third-hand ambiguous account and follow that.

i suppose that the "christian" way would be to let whoever want to get in and let the Holy Light speak of Itself.

just my opinion...

The Holy Light chooses the legitimate, lawful Orthodox patriarch every single year... never the Armenians.

 

[Annoula]

The Holy Light chooses the legitimate, lawful Orthodox patriarch every single year... never the Armenians.

as a matter of fact, i was talking about the 2 Orthodox Patriarchs, the former and the present. if they are going to cause trouble then somebody tell them to act "christian like" - out of love - and let the Holy Light do the rest.

my 2 cents again...

 

[repentant]

i've read in an Orthodox site that the Orthodox Patriarch plus an Armenian enter the Holy Grave.

is this true???

i suppose that the "christian" way would be to let whoever want to get in and let the Holy Light speak of Itself.

just my opinion...

Actually it has Annoula. You can see that in the story above. When the Armenians bribed the Muslims and they let an Armenian in there, the Holy Light did not come to them in the Sepulcure, but instead came to the Jerusalem Patriarch outside and struck the column as well. A Muslim man on a roof saw this and jumped off the roof without getting hurt, proclaimed Orthodoxy was the truth, converted and was killed by other Muslims.

 

[Gnisios]

Actually it has Annoula. You can see that in the story above. When the Armenians bribed the Muslims and they let an Armenian in there, the Holy Light did not come to them in the Sepulcure, but instead came to the Jerusalem Patriarch outside and struck the column as well. A Muslim man on a roof saw this and jumped off the roof without getting hurt, proclaimed Orthodoxy was the truth, converted and was killed by other Muslims.

When did this happen my brother? It's an amazing story indeed!

 

[Gnisios]

For those who read Greek I present this link Unfortunately the situation in Jerusalem is very bad at the moment. Personally I care not of +Irineos or +Theophilos but very much concerned about Orthodox ethos and testimony.

 

[Shubunkin]

When did this happen my brother? It's an amazing story indeed!

I believe you can read it about it here:

http://www.holyfire.org/eng/velich.htm

If anyone has a better site about this, please let us know.

 

[Gnisios]

I believe you can read it about it here:

http://www.holyfire.org/eng/velich.htm

If anyone has a better site about this, please let us know.

Thank you so much for the link!

 

[repentant]

Excerp from the site above...

Every time heterodox have tried to obtain the Holy Fire they have failed. Three such attempts are known. Two occured in the twelfth century when priests of the Roman church tried to force out the Orthodox church but by their own confession these ended with God's punishment. [3,4] But the most miraculous event occured in the year 1579, the year when God clearly testified to whom alone may be given His miracle.

"Once the Armenians (monophysites - ed.) paid the Turks, who then occupied the Holy Land, in order to obtain permission for their Patriarch to enter the Holy Sepulchre, the Orthodox Patriarch was standing sorrowfully with his flock at the exit of the church, near the left column, when the Holy Light split this column vertically and flashed near the Orthodox Patriarch.

A Muslim Muezzin, called Tounom, who saw the miraculous event from an adjacent mosque, immediately abandoned the Muslim religion and became an Orthodox Christian. This event took place in 1579 under Sultan Mourad IV, when the Patriarch of Jerusalem was Sophrony IV.(The above mentioned split column still exists. It dates from the twelfth century. The Orthodox pilgrims embrace it at the "place of the split" as they enter the church).[2, date and name are corrected]

Turkish warriors stood on the wall of a building close to the gate and lightning-struck column . When he saw this striking miracle he cried that Christ is truly God and leaped down from a height of about ten meters. But he was not killed-the stones under him became as soft as wax and his footprint was left upon them. The Turks tried to scrape away these prints but they could not destroy them; so they remain as witnesses [5].

He was burned by the Turks near the Church. His remains, gathered by the Greeks, lay in the monastery of Panagia until the 19th century shedding chrism.

 

[Gnisios]

Excerp from the site above...

Every time heterodox have tried to obtain the Holy Fire they have failed. Three such attempts are known. Two occured in the twelfth century when priests of the Roman church tried to force out the Orthodox church but by their own confession these ended with God's punishment. [3,4] But the most miraculous event occured in the year 1579, the year when God clearly testified to whom alone may be given His miracle.

"Once the Armenians (monophysites - ed.) paid the Turks, who then occupied the Holy Land, in order to obtain permission for their Patriarch to enter the Holy Sepulchre, the Orthodox Patriarch was standing sorrowfully with his flock at the exit of the church, near the left column, when the Holy Light split this column vertically and flashed near the Orthodox Patriarch.

A Muslim Muezzin, called Tounom, who saw the miraculous event from an adjacent mosque, immediately abandoned the Muslim religion and became an Orthodox Christian. This event took place in 1579 under Sultan Mourad IV, when the Patriarch of Jerusalem was Sophrony IV.(The above mentioned split column still exists. It dates from the twelfth century. The Orthodox pilgrims embrace it at the "place of the split" as they enter the church).[2, date and name are corrected]

Turkish warriors stood on the wall of a building close to the gate and lightning-struck column . When he saw this striking miracle he cried that Christ is truly God and leaped down from a height of about ten meters. But he was not killed-the stones under him became as soft as wax and his footprint was left upon them. The Turks tried to scrape away these prints but they could not destroy them; so they remain as witnesses [5].

He was burned by the Turks near the Church. His remains, gathered by the Greeks, lay in the monastery of Panagia until the 19th century shedding chrism.

Amazing!

 

[Happy Orthodox]

Check out the Video that repentant gave a link to. Look closer to the second half of the movie, there is a fireball that floats over the heads of the believers. You can see it pretty clearly! On the same website, I think, there is a link to a larger version, where you can see the fireball better. The author himself did not see the fireball when he was filming the crowd, nor did he see it when he watched the video afterwards. It was his mother who with great surprise pointed at the screen when he was shoing it to her! And then he posted the larger versions of the video on his website. Check it out!


Could someone, please, explain the situation in little more detail, to me, the Homo ignorantus? Who are the people who fight over the Holy Light this year? I have a friend who is in Europe right now, and he's going to see the Light this Pascha, you made me worried a little about that. Thank you.