Holy help

[NonCompusMentis]

Many claim that they have been helped by their god, got through a time of grief, won a sports game such as the extremely popular game of croquet. I'm not talking about the people saying 'thank God' just because it is apart of their vernacular, i mean people who genuinely thank , praise and believe that they have been helped.

So what i am asking (which you probably saw coming from a mile or three away) is that if we are suppossed to have free will then why such interference? I might be able to understand such tampering at a larger level that would change the direction of humanity in some way, but why would a being so powerful want to get involved in our everday affairs, just seems a bit odd to me. I know its a fairly (okay, completely) lame question but just please humour me.

so now to end this post with a pointless quote:

'It is a good thing for an uneducated man to read books of quotations'-Sir Winston Churchill

 

[Zeena]

Many claim that they have been helped by their god, got through a time of grief, won a sports game such as the extremely popular game of croquet. I'm not talking about the people saying 'thank God' just because it is apart of their vernacular, i mean people who genuinely thank , praise and believe that they have been helped.

So what i am asking (which you probably saw coming from a mile or three away) is that if we are suppossed to have free will then why such interference? I might be able to understand such tampering at a larger level that would change the direction of humanity in some way, but why would a being so powerful want to get involved in our everday affairs, just seems a bit odd to me. I know its a fairly (okay, completely) lame question but just please humour me.

so now to end this post with a pointless quote:

'It is a good thing for an uneducated man to read books of quotations'-Sir Winston Churchill

Free will to surrender to our Helper

 

[Adstar]

Many claim that they have been helped by their god, got through a time of grief, won a sports game such as the extremely popular game of croquet. I'm not talking about the people saying 'thank God' just because it is apart of their vernacular, i mean people who genuinely thank , praise and believe that they have been helped.

So what i am asking (which you probably saw coming from a mile or three away) is that if we are supposed to have free will then why such interference? I might be able to understand such tampering at a larger level that would change the direction of humanity in some way, but why would a being so powerful want to get involved in our everyday affairs, just seems a bit odd to me. I know its a fairly (okay, completely) lame question but just please humour me.

so now to end this post with a pointless quote:

'It is a good thing for an uneducated man to read books of quotations'-Sir Winston Churchill

How does Gods intervention in a minor thing add too or take away our free will?

It seems you are talking about two totally different things.

If i give you a gift-wrapped pen does that suddenly transform you into a mindless Zombie?


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[NonCompusMentis]

How does Gods intervention in a minor thing add too or take away our free will?

Any intervention even if slight, is still an intervention. This could change the entire outcome of an event/ persons life. I can understand guidance (as in you have the choice of doing this, this or this), but not actually doing something proactive. This interference would set up situations that did not occur naturally from other events, therefore may actually change what we do in the future. Thats the best i can explain it at nearly 2am i'm sorry about that.

If i give you a gift-wrapped pen does that suddenly transform you into a mindless Zombie?

If you got the pen (thanks by the way, but if it aint gold plated you can have it back ) via your own personal choice rather than being directed to the pen from divine intervention then no it wouldn't. But if it was, why was there a need for intervention? would it be that bad if you did not buy me that pen? What i am trying to say from this is that even if we think we have a choice our environment/situation is actually being controlled, if this is true our freewill is only limited to that environment/situation which has been engineered in some way. And i really dont think i'm making any sense so i apologise for that.

Would it turn me into a zombie??? TV did that a long long time ago.

 

[Confess]

Unfortunately many Christians believe that we have a free will.

I disagree.

We have no free will because we are by nature, sinful.
We are enslaved to sin and therefore are bound to it alone.

The only people on earth that were not enslaved by sin was Adam, Eve and Jesus.

Adam and Eve were sinless and holy UNTIL they used their free will choose to sin. You see, when a person is holy and sinless, they have the ability to choose the holy things of God or the evil things of sin.

No person, since the fall has had that free will. That doesn't mean that we cannot choose not to lye, cheat, steal etc. We have power over our actual sins. What we don't have power over is our sinful nature. Just as I cannot will my hair to be any color other then red, so too I cannot will my nature to be holy and sinless.

If I had free will, Jesus would never had to die for my sinfulness, rather we would live under the law where we could choose to (or not to) lye, cheat, steal etc.

 

[TexasGirl06]

So what i am asking (which you probably saw coming from a mile or three away) is that if we are suppossed to have free will then why such interference? I might be able to understand such tampering at a larger level that would change the direction of humanity in some way, but why would a being so powerful want to get involved in our everday affairs, just seems a bit odd to me. I know its a fairly (okay, completely) lame question but just please humour me.

I am free to love God....
I am free to deny Him.

Once I have chosen to love Him (He actually chose me first ! ) ....
I am free to grow in Him.
I can know Him just a little...
I can purpose to know all I can about Him.

The beauty about Him.... and how powerful and Almighty He is,
....is that He knows me.
He knows my name....
and He knows how many hairs are on my head.
He loves me.
Of course....when I call on Him he hears me and answers me.
I don't always like the answer.
Sometimes it takes a really long time to hear the answer.
Some prayers....he is telling me to wait.

It is the nature of God.....to love His children dearly.
Just as a loving earthly father would love his son.

Personally, I believe that God delights when we talk to Him. .....and ask Him things.
We were, after all...created to be in fellowship with Him.

 

[Adoniram]

Many claim that they have been helped by their god, got through a time of grief, won a sports game such as the extremely popular game of croquet. I'm not talking about the people saying 'thank God' just because it is apart of their vernacular, i mean people who genuinely thank , praise and believe that they have been helped.

So what i am asking (which you probably saw coming from a mile or three away) is that if we are suppossed to have free will then why such interference? I might be able to understand such tampering at a larger level that would change the direction of humanity in some way, but why would a being so powerful want to get involved in our everday affairs, just seems a bit odd to me. I know its a fairly (okay, completely) lame question but just please humour me.

As a Christian, I ask for and expect God to intervene in my life. First, for the salvation which he provides me, and which I would not have had I not asked for it. Secondly, for guidance in my daily life, to help me make decisions that are right and will glorify Him. Thirdly, for assistance with personal troubles in the way of helping me through them both physically and emotionally. The Lord is good, and watches over me in ways I can't even begin to imagine. Sadly, I am not nearly as expressive of my thankfulness as I should be.

But you ask "why would God want to get involved?" It is because he created each of us, and each of us is dear to him. He does have a personal interest in everyone, and in all that he has created.. The Bible says that not one sparrow falls to the ground without God knowing about it, yet we are of more value to him than they are (Mt. 10:29), that he knows the number of hairs you have on your head (Mt. 10:30), and that he knows the names of all the stars in the universe (Ps. 147:4). Does the artist not have an interest in his art? The writer in his book? The designer in his design? It is natural for the Creator to have interest in his creation

But God's interest in us does not interfere with our own free will. He does not impose his will upon us. We can see that in the fact that it would be his will for us to all be perfect, sinless, and holy, as Jesus Christ was. Yet none of us are, because we exercise our own wills, make our own choices in opposition to what God would will for us.

As Christians, it is (or should be) our desire to become like Christ was. It's where the name comes from. So, we ask for intervention from God to help us attain holiness. Still, we often fail. Thankfully, God does not require us to be perfect, but rather to have faith in Jesus and the sacrifice he made for us.

 

[Davis]

Unfortunately many Christians believe that we have a free will.


We have no free will because we are by nature, sinful.
We are enslaved to sin and therefore are bound to it alone.

I disagree with this passage lovingly.
We are no longer slaves to sin but slaves to rightousness according to Paul. Christ freed us from that bondage.

Read Romans 6:6-7
"6For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with,[a] that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7because anyone who has died has been freed from sin."

We are by nature sinful but are no longer living in bondage by it.

 

[Key]

Many claim that they have been helped by their god, got through a time of grief, won a sports game such as the extremely popular game of croquet. I'm not talking about the people saying 'thank God' just because it is apart of their vernacular, i mean people who genuinely thank , praise and believe that they have been helped.

Yes there are !

So what i am asking (which you probably saw coming from a mile or three away) is that if we are suppossed to have free will then why such interference?

First, one must grasp that God only gave us free will, he did not say we were beyond his influence, nor did God promise us that he would not make things happen in our lives. Our ability to make a choice is not impaired by any of these situations. Just as say, a Speed Limit, does not impede your ability to go as fast as you want, however, you will endure the consequences of your actions. Just as you do not have to want to pull over for the cop, but failure to do so may end in your ability to execute the choice, being taken away.

So, in the end, God never says, we are "Out of his Influence" he just says we are given the gift to able to formulate our own choices, by the ability of our will, and God will not force us to make a choice in one manner or the other unless we ask him into our lives.

Once we give over our lives to God, we allow him to enter every aspect of us, and this is also our ability to make decisions.

I might be able to understand such tampering at a larger level that would change the direction of humanity in some way, but why would a being so powerful want to get involved in our everday affairs, just seems a bit odd to me. I know its a fairly (okay, completely) lame question but just please humour me.

God is both Personal, and All Mighty. If God only looked at the overall, then there would be no personal relationship with him.

I Hope I have given you food for thought.

God Bless

Key

 

[Confess]

I disagree with this passage lovingly.
We are no longer slaves to sin but slaves to rightousness according to Paul. Christ freed us from that bondage.

Read Romans 6:6-7
"6For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with,[a] that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7because anyone who has died has been freed from sin."

We are by nature sinful but are no longer living in bondage by it.

I agree that Christ has freed us and I agree with Paul's passage.

But our sinful nature still exists. We still gravitate to the unholy things rather than the holy. Proof that our sinful nature still binds us is the fact that we still commit sins.

I still struggle with getting out of bed and going to church, I struggle with continuing family devotions and taking my children to confirmation class.

It is sin that causes me to struggle. I cannot freely get away from the sin, it still has a hold of me.

It is in the eyes of God that I am clean and righteous, through the shed blood of Christ.

Free will, as many define it, says that I have the freedom to choose in spiritual matters. But how can I have such freedom if I am "dead in trespasses and sins" (Eph. 2:1)? Romans 8:7 says, "the carnal mind is enmity against God" and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost" (1 Co 12:3) and God "hath saved us, . . . not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace" (2 Ti 1:9).

It is only by the grace of God through the Holy Spirit that I believe and am saved. It is God's work, not my own. I was not saved through my free will to choose to believe. On my own, I can only reject and cling to the sin that I am attracted to. This is all due to my sinful nature.

It is also taught among us that man possesses some measure of freedom of the will which enables him to live an outwardly honorable life and to make choices among the things that reason comprehends. But without the grace, help, and activity of the Holy Spirit man is not capable of making himself acceptable to God, of fearing God and believing in God with his whole heart, or of expelling inborn evil lusts from his heart.

This is accomplished by the Holy Spirit, who is given through the Word of God, for Paul says in 1 Cor. 2:14, "Natural man does not accept the gifts of the Spirit of God. for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

I realize that for many this is a teaching that is new.

Well ...

Actually, this teaching has been around for thousands of years, it is only not a familiar teaching due to the various protestant denominations that do not teach it.

Does this make sense?

 

[solarwave]

disagree.

We have no free will because we are by nature, sinful.

Wierd way to think of things.

So what i am asking (which you probably saw coming from a mile or three away) is that if we are suppossed to have free will then why such interference? I might be able to understand such tampering at a larger level that would change the direction of humanity in some way, but why would a being so powerful want to get involved in our everday affairs, just seems a bit odd to me. I know its a fairly (okay, completely) lame question but just please humour me.

Well it doesn't take away free will. And God gets involved with everyday affairs is a good point, it's cos He cares, and whats to be with us even in our smallest detail.

 

[jasper123]

Many claim that they have been helped by their god, got through a time of grief, won a sports game such as the extremely popular game of croquet. I'm not talking about the people saying 'thank God' just because it is apart of their vernacular, i mean people who genuinely thank , praise and believe that they have been helped.

So what i am asking (which you probably saw coming from a mile or three away) is that if we are suppossed to have free will then why such interference? I might be able to understand such tampering at a larger level that would change the direction of humanity in some way, but why would a being so powerful want to get involved in our everday affairs, just seems a bit odd to me. I know its a fairly (okay, completely) lame question but just please humour me.

so now to end this post with a pointless quote:

'It is a good thing for an uneducated man to read books of quotations'-Sir Winston Churchill

Men are predestined to come into grace or damnation,
you do have free will even thought God knows the
outcome of your life. Each indivdual makes his own
destination.
Ron

 

[NonCompusMentis]

Hello, sorry this reply is late, but it is nice too see that there are different interpretations what was asked.

I would have had a a number questions but i am just not with it at the moment (or this week) and anything i think of just does not actually make sense when i read the questions that i have actually asked. So your going to get a rather weak assortment of questions instead.

First, for the salvation which he provides me, and which I would not have had I not asked for it. Secondly, for guidance in my daily life, to help me make decisions that are right and will glorify Him. Thirdly, for assistance with personal troubles in the way of helping me through them both physically and emotionally

Fair enough, but would you expect him to interfere in your life at the cost of the outcome of others lives? (as in the asking for help with a football match) it just does not seem fair too me.

Once we give over our lives to God, we allow him to enter every aspect of us, and this is also our ability to make decisions.

So any decision you make may not actually be yours? If any decision is to be made is to (in my opinion) be made then it should be you. If you can be a good person or make good decisions by yourself without influence wouldnt that make you more worthy/better person in God's eyes?

Men are predestined to come into grace or damnation,
you do have free will even thought God knows the
outcome of your life. Each indivdual makes his own
destination.

So since the outcome of my life is apparently known that means fate exists then? does that not nullify freewill as the 'destination' will be the same no what you do if God knows knows i am going to thrown into the fires of hell (i am preparing my fire retardant suit already) or enter into Heavan (so not going to happen, but i am also getting a stealth suit prepared just on the off the chance i might be able sneak in).

OKay thats that had another questin but it went as quickly as came, so thats that then.

Pointless quote:
"My spelling is Wobbly. It's good spelling but it Wobbles, and the letters get in the wrong places." -- A. A. Milne

 

[The Virginian]

So what i am asking (which you probably saw coming from a mile or three away) is that if we are suppossed to have free will then why such interference? I might be able to understand such tampering at a larger level that would change the direction of humanity in some way, but why would a being so powerful want to get involved in our everday affairs, just seems a bit odd to me. I know its a fairly (okay, completely) lame question but just please humour me.

BECAUSE GOD MADE US is the answer to your question. Any parent understands involvement in the lives of their progeny. This is a very plain, out in the open, thing to see; and yet, if there's a problem of understanding, remember that the thing created can never have the same level of understanding as it's creator. "My thoughts are not your thoughts, and my ways are not your ways, says the Lord of Hosts."

Now as to the matter of Christians not having a "free will"! For this to be true, then Adam and Eve prior to the Fall in the Garden of Eden, did not have a free will either. If those who do not know God have no free will; then they whenever they engaging in sexual activity, are acting no different than an animal on the street. They are a slave to sin, so how could they know any better?
Please, please, please, understand that when God became man, lived His life, endured The Passion, was crucified, died, and was buried, arose from the grave, walked among men, and ascended into heaven to sit at the Father's right hand, what had he accomplished but the redemption of the totality of mankind. When man sins he is the total slave to sin. There is no way in the world that a person who has no relationship with the Creator of All, can even begin to think right. Free will involves the mind of the thinker, and as the apostle Paul wrote, "...but we have the mind of Christ..." for "...He has not given us a Spirit of fear, but of love , power, and a sound mind." Jesus himself refutes the thought that men have no "free will" when He quoted the Great Commandment (the Shama), "..Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, with all thy mind, and with all thy strength, and thy neighbor as thyself. If the person who says they think man does not have a free will, then they are right and the Scriptures are wrong. There are no other options. God's Word is not a buffet line at the local cafeteria, where we load up our plate with only those things acceptable to our understanding.

the sinful and unworthy servant

 

[Key]

So any decision you make may not actually be yours? If any decision is to be made is to (in my opinion) be made then it should be you. If you can be a good person or make good decisions by yourself without influence wouldnt that make you more worthy/better person in God's eyes?

The point here, is that I have asked God to Guide my life. This is I accept God as my God, I say I am your servant and you are my lord.

I do what God asks of me, and go as God directs me, as opposed to doing what I want. If I only do what I want, then I do not serve God, because I am serving myself.

But God would view with great love and admiration because of the fact that with my freedom to make a choice, I chose God.

I hope I have explained that well.

God Bless

Key

 

[Rafael]

Askig for help is not a violation of free will, nor does God answer all prayers that we may come up with that are silly or childish, although, like a loving father, He may choose to answer even the silliest of a beloved child. Sometimes He says no for our own good, and we are told to pray for more than just selfish lusts and desires we have in life. Love happens between more than just self, and we are to see about the needs of our neighbors and love them in the practical ways we do ourselves - by nourishing our bodies with food and the protection of clothing and shelter. As a race of beings, we have failed in that area, seeing that many die in the so-called modern world of disease and poverty by the thousands, dailey. It takes action and not just prayer to help others, but the prayers of men agrees with the Holy Spirit of God to change the hearts of men so that they will listen to God's commandment to "love your neighbor as you love yourself", thus envolving man in the chain of love and commitment that is love. This kind of love for self is not about a self-esteem problem but one of the practical love I point out that ll people have for self naturally (See Ephesians 5:29).
The preordained promise is that God works "all" things for good to those that love Him and are the called according to His purpose (Romans 8:28). By reading the scriptures we learn His purpose in mankind and that love is the greatest thing that is eternal. We should pray those things of God, like the fruit of the Holy Spirit, be in our lives - that we might grow up in them and see them as fruit of our lives - like kindness and love. Those who practice and grow in God's love (Agape), see life in the faith that it all turns out for the good even if it appears that death is the ultimate end for man.

 

[Adoniram]

Fair enough, but would you expect him to interfere in your life at the cost of the outcome of others lives? (as in the asking for help with a football match) it just does not seem fair too me.

It seems funny to me that an atheist would consider my asking for God's help to be "unfair."

But, to answer your question, my asking God for help in playing (using your example) to the best of my ability would not, IMO, be unfair. God wants us to do our best in every endeavor. Now, I have often wondered myself about cases in which you have two teams both fervently praying to God for help in winning a game. I have concluded that praying to God is good, and leave it up to him to sort it out.

So any decision you make may not actually be yours? If any decision is to be made is to (in my opinion) be made then it should be you. If you can be a good person or make good decisions by yourself without influence wouldnt that make you more worthy/better person in God's eyes?

Every decision is ours to make. It's not like God walks along side of us saying "Do this, do that," although at times we do get a "feeling" that God is urging us in a certain direction. It is through reading the Bible and prayer that we get a sense of how we should live to be in accordance with God's will. Even as Christians, we sometimes make the wrong choices, but God is quick to forgive when we ask. In God's eyes there are two "classes" of people: Those who believe on the Lord Jesus, and those who don't believe on the Lord Jesus. He considers those who believe to be righteous because they have been "cleansed by the blood of Jesus."

"But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.(1 John 1:7-9)

For those who do not believe, no amount of goodness is sufficient.

"But we are all like an unclean thing,
And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags;
We all fade as a leaf,
And our iniquities, like the wind,
Have taken us away." (Is. 64:6)

For Christians however, God does expect us to grow in strength and knowledge and grace. And there are various "rewards" in heaven for us depending on our service to the Lord.

So since the outcome of my life is apparently known that means fate exists then? does that not nullify freewill as the 'destination' will be the same no what you do if God knows knows i am going to thrown into the fires of hell (i am preparing my fire retardant suit already) or enter into Heavan (so not going to happen, but i am also getting a stealth suit prepared just on the off the chance i might be able sneak in).

There you go with the funnies again. LOL Seriously though, this is an old, and frankly, lame argument. "God knows what I'm going to do so I have no choice in the matter." Hogwash! As a self-proclaimed atheist, you really have no right to make that claim anyway. Stop blaming God for the choices you make in life. The fact is that the choice is still your's to make. Stand up and take some responsibility. I think you know by now that to be counted righteous in God's eyes, for entry into heaven (i.e. eternal life), God requires us to repent, or turn away from our sinful ways, and believe that Jesus died for us to cleanse us from our unrighteousness. The choice really is your's to make.

You know, it could be that God knows that eventually you will make the right choice and he is patiently waiting for you to reach that point in your life. The thing is, you never know how much time you have left in your life, so it is to your advantage to make that choice as soon as possible. Once you pass from this life, the choice is indeed, out of your hands.

 

[NonCompusMentis]

So another post from me that lacks any critical thinking whatsoever. Enjoy.

I hope I have explained that well.

That was clearly enough for me thanks. It just makes me wonder though what you would be like or would have done if you had chosen another direction.

As a race of beings, we have failed in that area, seeing that many die in the so-called modern world of disease and poverty by the thousands, dailey

Now if i had phrased my orignal question similar to this statement it would have all in all made things a lot more clear. Never mind. Thanks for the post Rafeal, insightful and intersting (i am not being sarcastic there, just to let you know).

It seems funny to me that an atheist would consider my asking for God's help to be "unfair."

I just wanted peoples opinions and such on it. So i asked.

Every decision is ours to make. It's not like God walks along side of us saying "Do this, do that," although at times we do get a "feeling" that God is urging us in a certain direction. It is through reading the Bible and prayer that we get a sense of how we should live to be in accordance with God's will. Even as Christians, we sometimes make the wrong choices, but God is quick to forgive when we ask. In God's eyes there are two "classes" of people: Those who believe on the Lord Jesus, and those who don't believe on the Lord Jesus. He considers those who believe to be righteous because they have been "cleansed by the blood of Jesus

Guidance. Check, got that. But when you say to 'live in..accordance wint God's will' it makes me think what is His will? there are many different denominations so as to what this 'will' is to one person could be considerably different to another.

There you go with the funnies again. LOL

Glad you find me funny. I may not be that funny and have a tendancy at times to be quite garrulous in my posts, but i just try and make things slightly more interesting. I like idiosyncrasies and quirks in peoples posts. It makes things so much more intersting to read because well, if we were all to right in a boring format such as say, a formal letter it would be rather boring don't you think?

self-proclaimed atheist

So getting that printed on a t-shirt

Stop blaming God for the choices you make in life

To the first point, I don't (being a self proclaimed atheist i do not believe in a god). I blame myself for my choices in life, and humanity for the world we live in today (yes i'm a bit of a misanthrope, but not as much as used to be lol)

Right. Some of that actually looks quite vindictive and aggressive but its not supposed to be, but i cannot be botherd to change it because i have got to as i have got lectures tommorow which will not be fun in the slightest, especially if i stay up all night. Oh, and thanks for all the responses.

Pointless quote:
'Eat right, exercise regularly, die anyway'. ~Author Unknown

 

[Adoniram]

Hey there, NonCompusMentis-

I just went back and read my previous post (#17), and feel like I owe you an apology. I made some pretty pointed remarks toward the end of it and want you to know that they were not meant to be directed at you personally, as it might appear. I was just venting general frustration at hearing that argument again.

So getting that printed on a t-shirt

Just don't print it on your stealth suit. LOL

But when you say to 'live in..accordance wint God's will' it makes me think what is His will? there are many different denominations so as to what this 'will' is to one person could be considerably different to another.

Good question. You are correct in that what he wants for one person may not be the same as what he wants for the next. In reading the scriptures, one can get an idea of what God expects in regards to relationships to him and to other people. How he wants us to treat each other: "Love your neighbor as yourself." Looking at the lives of people in the Bible, we can definitely see that there are avenues God doesn't want us to go down. As for what specific direction he wants us to take in our individual lives, that's a little harder to ascertain sometimes. It requires a lot of prayer and faith that God will open the doors he wants you to go through and close those he doesn't. Generally though-

"Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God." 1 Cor. 10:31

 

[Stinker]

Free will. Yes, we have free will.

However, there is a cosmic evil force called Satan, and there is our carnal (animal nature), that both work against us.

There is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit and the converted person's born again spirit, that work for him/her.


So there is no such thing as total moral/spiritual freedom in the universe. In each one of us our moral/spiritual loyalty is either with God or Satan. Even if one is a nonbeliever and is known to be a 'good' person in the world's eyes, that person's spiritual loyalty will be made manifest to him/her and to the rest of the world, at the Great White Throne judgment.