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Holiness

Discussion in 'Bibliology & Hermeneutics' started by Monna, Sep 21, 2017.

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  1. Monna

    Monna Well-Known Member

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    I would greatly like to hear some people's understanding of the concept of holiness, in terms of both the holiness of God and our being called to perfect our holiness (2 Cor 7:1). What is the "splendour of God's holiness,"(1 Chronicles 16:29; Psalm 29:2; Psalm 96:9), what is the significance of God swearing by his holiness (Psalm 89:35; Amos 4:2)?

    1 Corinthians 1:30 suggests that Christ Jesus "has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption" (wisdom = righteousness + holiness + redemption). The word 'holy' comes from the root 'whole' implying complete, or all-encompassing, fullness (and therefore without shortcomings, fault or blemish).

    I do not want a theological, doctrinal exposition. I would like to know how readers relate to this personally, how God's holiness affects their daily lives. Are you conscious of becoming more holy? Is this seen as a good think among your work colleagues? How often do you even think about it? When you do, how does it make you feel, how does it affect your behaviou? How real is it in your life? Please illustrate and tell us your stories or encounters with holiness. Feel free to cite other scriptures that refer to holiness.
     
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  2. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Good question, Monna. :oldthumbsup:

    For me, I find that I don't think about holiness as much as I should. I instead think primarily about obedience, and what I need to be doing for the Lord on any given day. But when I do try to focus on holiness my mind turns immediately to prayer. For me, to "perfect holiness" involves perfecting things like endurance and controlling my tongue (James 1:4, James 1:26-27), and I can't accomplish either one without a certain amount of prayer, specifically over these disciplines.

    Receiving revelation from God and getting caught up in the Spirit during worship also bring me into a place of increased holiness, but my primary means is through prayer, in particular when it converts over into tongues.
     
  3. Adstar

    Adstar Well-Known Member

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    Being Holy is Being Perfect..

    We humans are never Holy of our own fallen natures.. BUT.. We are deemed Holy if we are covered by the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ.. As long as we believe Jesus and trust in the Atonement He secured for us for our eternal life then we remain Holy by our association with Jesus..
     
  4. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Out of curiosity, Adstar, how do you interpret 2 Corinthians 7:1?
     
  5. Adstar

    Adstar Well-Known Member

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    We should strive to live holy lives and flee sin.. But does anyone succeed in living a life without sin?
    Is anyone living sinless lives?
    Striving to do so is a outward sign of ones inner agreement with the teachings of Jesus.. it shows our agreement with Gods will..
     
  6. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Not in my book, no. And I agree with your final statements completely. :oldthumbsup:

    But if it is true that "as long as we believe Jesus and trust in the Atonement He secured for us for our eternal life then we remain Holy by our association with Jesus," then why should we be perfecting holiness "in the fear of God?"
     
  7. Adstar

    Adstar Well-Known Member

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    Because we love the truth.. If we love the will of God and aknowledge it to be right. then we will want to do our best to live to His teachings... We should desire to do Good because it is good to do good.. We should desire to avoid sin becuase we should hate that which is evil..
     
  8. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member Supporter

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    What I was asking was, why should we fear Him?
     
  9. Monna

    Monna Well-Known Member

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    Psalm 96:9
    Worship the Lord in the splendor of his holiness; tremble before him, all the earth.

    Isaiah 29:23
    When they see among them their children, the work of my hands, they will keep my name holy; they will acknowledge the holiness of the Holy One of Jacob, and will stand in awe of the God of Israel.

    Perhaps its when, in prayer, we come close to Him and get a glimpse of the splendor of His holiness, we "fall down as though dead" like John when he had his vision of the Lord. It was in fact during a time of worship when it happened. In our Sunday Schools and in many of our homes and churches we have cultivated an image of God as some kind of jolly Santa Claus, or kindly old Great Grandpa, or as some would translate Abba Father to be "Daddy" - the one who tells us bedtime stories, cuddles with us for a few minutes and tucks us into bed. If any of these images are at all in the back of our heads, we will be really awe struck to the point of shame and fear that we were ever so nonchalant about who He really is when we see him in the "splendor of his holiness." How did we ever dare let such images take root.

    And yet...God Himself gave the image of himself as a hen gathering her chicks under her wings; we see Jesus blessing the children, we have the parable of the shepherd going through thick and thin to find his lost lamb to carry carefully back to the fold. These images are true, but so is his awesomeness, his holiness, his palpable power. Even if we can come boldly into his presence, we must come in humility, in deep gratitude and worship for the grace He showed us, recognising that it is not our righteousness of purity that clothes us, but that of His Son, our Saviour and Redeemer.
     
  10. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yes, Ma'am. And I think a large part of it also stems from poor interpretation of the New Testament, and failing to understand that, in His being closer to the church during New Testament times, that closeness brought with it grave spiritual responsibility. Numerous times they were being judged with sickness and death (1 Corinthians 11:29-31; Revelation 2:20-23, several others). It's a failure on the part of the modern church in presuming the Living God tolerates sin in His presence, and a presumption we only get away with because we do NOT know what it means for Him to be that close... yet.
     
  11. Adstar

    Adstar Well-Known Member

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    Only those who are not saved should fear God.. The knowledge of the Love of God for Christians removes all fear from us..

    1 John 4: KJV
    18 "There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love."
     
  12. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I seem to be fighting a losing battle, LoL.

    Ok, one last try here. This verse was written to believers. Paul told them, "Therefore, since we have these promises, let us cleanse ourselves of all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God." It's not written about or to unsaved people, but believers. Why should believers fear Him?
     
  13. Adstar

    Adstar Well-Known Member

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    Ohhh i see.. Well i cannot answer that definitively.. Except to say that i what 1John 4 says is more definitive to me.. Many people say that the fear of God is a term used to express reverence for God.. I know that's a weak response.. I'm sorry i cannot give a definite and conclusive answer..
     
  14. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yeah, that's the normal answer for your position. No problem, I would have debated you by referring back to the stuff I said in Post #10, but I think we've swatted this one around long enough, LoL. I'm easy, i.e. with others taking different positions then I do, so long as they're easy with me. :wave:
     
  15. Adstar

    Adstar Well-Known Member

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    So what is your position?
     
  16. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Well, my position on this issue largely centers around what Paul said in 1 Corinthians 11:30-32. The Lord only wants us to correct our behavior, and far prefers it when we correct ourselves. Yet if we refuse to then we risk Him having to chastise us. But then again, these verses applied much better in New Testament times when the Spirit of God was closer to the churches than He is now. I think by our distancing ourselves from Him we can "get away" with more now, but that's not necessarily a good thing in the long term. Eventually we may find out that His standards never actually changed. Our distance from Him just fooled us into thinking it did.

    But certainly the blood of Christ atoned for our sins (1 John 2:1), only that I believe He did this expecting us (if we would be His adopted sons) to conform ourselves to the character of our Father, in holiness, righteousness, wisdom, etc. NOT that He expects us to be perfect any more than a human father would. But that if we are truly His sons and daughters then we will seek to become children who conform to His authority over our lives through the way we act and lead our lives. And He is a Holy God, so He requests of us that we "Be holy, even as I am Holy" (1 Peter 1:16).
     
  17. Adstar

    Adstar Well-Known Member

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    Well my belief is that if we could conform ourselves to the character of our Father, in holiness, rightiousness, wisdom,ect. Then we would be perfect and God would expect us to be living a perfect sinless life in our current flesh... For me it cannot be both ways conformed to the character of God and still be sinning..

    Now if being less then perfect is conforming to the character of God then that is declaring God to be less then perfect..
     
  18. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member Supporter

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    No, no. Now read what I'm saying carefully. I said NOT that we are expected to be perfect. It's like this: Imagine a father has two sons. One is not perfect and occasionally messes up (forgets to do his chores, complains about the rules, etc), but he clearly expresses a continual willingness to submit to His father nevertheless. Then you have another son who rebels against His father's authority and defiantly refuses to submit. This is the difference between one who understands what is required of an adopted son and one who is blatantly breaking the terms of the relationship. He has been adopted into the household of God, yet he refuses to honor the father's authority and enter into obedience. NOT sinless, flawless, perfect obedience, but rather a willingness to walk in obedience; a willingness to acknowledge when he is sinning and messing up, a willingness to repent, and a willingness to return to proper standing in the relationship by doing so.
     
  19. Adstar

    Adstar Well-Known Member

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    Obediance is not saying you will do something then turn around and not do something.. Thats deception..
     
  20. Monna

    Monna Well-Known Member

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    Adstar, are you a follower of Christ? If so, have you ever sinned since you determined to follow Christ, knowing you were doing sinning? Have you ever sinned 'without thinking' but then realised that what you did was sin?

    If so, would you call that deception?
     
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