• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

EastCoastRemnant

I Must Decrease That He May Increase
Site Supporter
Dec 8, 2010
7,665
1,505
Nova Scotia
✟210,609.00
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
What is the opinion of the upcoming holiday season?

Holy or evil? Why?

I will reserve the results of my study on the subject till after some other ADVENTISTS weigh in.

Suffice it to say that this issue was one that caused me to stop attending our local SDA church.
 
O

OntheDL

Guest

Here is what I think.

Many of the SDAs know (I don't know the percentage) Christmas is not the birthday of Christ. Some know it has a pagan root (winter solstice).

Our family does not celebrate it as a religious holiday. For some years we had nothing at all for it. But now we have two young children. So it's hard to plot it out completely. We have some gifts for the children and their friends. So we treat it like Thanksgiving, but avoid Santa and the commercial part of it.

Ellen White gave a balanced view on it. She linked all the commercialism and the celebration to idolatry while in the meantime suggested it's a good time to give children gifts to learn about Jesus. She also wrote that it's not a sin to have a Christmas tree at home.

So it's an sensitive issue to deal with if you have children at home. But I'm totally against having Christmas tree and Christmas service/celebration at the church.
 
Upvote 0
O

OntheDL

Guest
Suffice it to say that this issue was one that caused me to stop attending our local SDA church.

With regard to this statement...

I understand there are many issues in our churches and spiritual conditions of our church is rapidly regressing. I have long thought about it and have had many frustrations.

I don't know what you believe since you are new here (welcome to the SDA forum!). But if you believe you have the truth, you need to stay in your local church as long as possible (I'm staying until they throw me out). Our job is to witness to them. Our presence is a reproof to them. If all the light is removed, our churches will be in total darkness and it leaves all the new comers/truthseekers to those who are in darkness.
 
Upvote 0

Byfaithalone1

The gospel is Jesus Christ!
May 3, 2007
3,602
79
✟26,689.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
But if you believe you have the truth, you need to stay in your local church as long as possible.

I must admit that I was once very drawn to this idea. There was a time when I thought I might contribute to positive change within SDAism. However, for a number of reasons, I ultimately concluded that this was not God's calling for me. These are very personal decisions.

BFA
 
Upvote 0

EastCoastRemnant

I Must Decrease That He May Increase
Site Supporter
Dec 8, 2010
7,665
1,505
Nova Scotia
✟210,609.00
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
I also agree that staying in as a witness and a light is the best course...

However, my wife and I were very new Adventists (about a year in) and had just been baptized. (I was baptized as a boy through the Baptist faith but slid far away from God)

The apostasy that we were seeing wasn't condusive to our growth as babes in the faith so I made the decision to take us out of it. We met with a group online that has been a real blessing to us and our growth and has caused me to do my own research and study as opposed to the traditional go and listen to the preacher once a week.

I have been convicted that there is a need to reach out to fellow adventists to bring them back to a right understanding of the pioneer message, the charts of 1843 and 1850, including the 2520 and the vital importance of understanding the millerite time period of 1840-1844 as sister White has said that the events associated with this time period will be repeated to the very letter in the end times.
 
Upvote 0
O

OntheDL

Guest

Which online group is it?


I agree with everything you said here. We who like to call ourselves remnant have lost focus of the message of the series of prophetic events that ended at 1844. We no longer believe in what the pioneers believed in.
 
Upvote 0

EastCoastRemnant

I Must Decrease That He May Increase
Site Supporter
Dec 8, 2010
7,665
1,505
Nova Scotia
✟210,609.00
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Which online group is it?

It just a small group of like minded brethren that have a private chat room and gather to fellowship. Unfortunately, our group has been slowly whittled down, to at the present, we only have three full time members. The reality of an online group and how easy it is to drop out along with some getting drawn into false teachings within other online groups had taken it's toll. We are so grateful to the Lord, though, that what we lack in number we more than make up for in faith and dedication to the message. We meet every single day of the week and either do a reading from Maranatha or group read a SOP book. We are currently about half way through Patriarchs and Prophets and have read not only from sister White but also Waggnor and Uriah Smith. We have all just ordered the Prayer90X book and journal by Ivor Myers and will be starting that early in the new year.
 
Upvote 0

EastCoastRemnant

I Must Decrease That He May Increase
Site Supporter
Dec 8, 2010
7,665
1,505
Nova Scotia
✟210,609.00
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married

Actually, she wrote that it was ok to have it in the church as well. Sister White encouraged the practice of putting up a tree, even at the church, to be used to gather donations by pinning them onto the branches.


While I do believe that Ellen White fulfilled all the requirements of being a true prophet and that her writings were divinely directed, I do not believe that she was given all the light the church would receive. The above quoted passage from Adventist Home shows that she was not given light in at least two areas having to do with this time of year, one being the egregious use of the term 'christmas' and the satanic meaning of the word.



Also, the decorating of the tree is in direct contradiction to this passage in Jeremiah


Sabbath blessings!
 
Upvote 0

honorthesabbath

Senior Veteran
Aug 10, 2005
4,067
78
76
Arkansas
✟27,180.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
HI ECR--welcome to this forum. I don't post here hardly at all anymore, but for some reason got the urge to look in and I saw your OP.

Let me say that there are many of us SDA's see the keeping of the xmas and the easter as purely pagan feasts that Christians have no business acknowledging. Also I find it especially reprehensible that SDA's, with all our knowledge of how paganism has slipped into Christianity can defend their observances.

Here is a video that many might find interesting. While I do not agree with this man's eschatology, I find his history of xmas revealing.

YouTube - Christmas = FAIL

 
Upvote 0

zeker33:9

Blood bought
Oct 25, 2010
81
1
✟22,706.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
So what "day" was Jesus born? I think it would behoove you to show what day Jesus was born to prove your case that it's not His birthday. That's the reason for the season, not some guy dressed in a Santa suit. It is about the birth of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. What's wrong with celebrating His birthday?
 
Upvote 0

EastCoastRemnant

I Must Decrease That He May Increase
Site Supporter
Dec 8, 2010
7,665
1,505
Nova Scotia
✟210,609.00
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Well, for starters, only heathens in Jesus' day celebrated their birthdays (Herod for one). It is never recorded as a celebration for any of God's people. Also the fact that we are never commanded to do so, unlike communion service.

Proving that Jesus was not born in December is actually quite easy. The Bible gives us enough clues so that we need not be ashamed.

The story of Christs birth tells of certain sheperds tending their flocks in the hills surrounding Bethlehem. It is a historical fact that the herds of sheep and goats were only pastured during the dry season from spring til around the middle of October when the rainy seasons starts in the Holy Land. So, the fact the sheperds were in the fields during Christs birth, means he could not have been born in December. I can provide reference for you of the herding practices in the middle east if you want or you can do a little investigative work of your own.

Then there is the historical record that show how pagan tradition was painted with Christian sanctity around the time of Constantine. Many unGodly celebrations were 'Christianized' to make it more palatable for the pagans to join the Roman church. Easter is another one but I'll leave that for another time

Another interesting fact concerning December 25th is that it is the birth day of Tammuz from Nimrods time, Thor from Nordic mythology and is also a witches sabbath called yule among other pagen celebrations. If you look at the character of Thor, in particular, and compare his personage with that of Santa Claus, you will find many similarities.

I have an excellent study on the significance of anagrams to satanists and how Santa is an anagram for Satan. When you consider that Satan said that he would exalt himself above God in the congregation of the north (santa, thor) and that his sole purpose is to counterfeit all that God is, you begin to see the true meaning of this time of year. There is much Biblical reference to the similarities between santa and the attributes of God, some of them being: hair white as wool, says ho, ho, knows everything(knows who's been naughty and nice), is everywhere at once and rides upon a white horse (this was what santa traditionally rode upon up until the 19th century). The most grevious part of this is how satan influences the children through this seemingly fat, jolly,benevolent abomination. He promises them their hearts desires and has every childs devotion and worship. Our children are being given into satans hands and to top things off, parents are bearing false witness to do so and teaching their children their first lie. How difficult is it for a child to come to a true understanding and love of God, later on, when this deception is still fresh in their minds!

You say that Jesus is the reason for the season... great platitude, but who has really thought this through... If you read my above study on the very word christmas and what it signifies then you must realize how this holiday demeans our dear Saviour. Is He portrayed as a risen redeemer? No, he is presented as a helpless baby, perpetually. Not what we are called to remember Jesus as and to proclaim Him as...

Anyway, I could go on, but I figure you either get my drift or will stay caught up in tradition and be unwilling to change so that you will see no light in this.
 
Upvote 0

EastCoastRemnant

I Must Decrease That He May Increase
Site Supporter
Dec 8, 2010
7,665
1,505
Nova Scotia
✟210,609.00
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Turn about is fair play... where is your scripture to back up your celebration on Dec 25th? Without scriptural authorization aren't you just following the traditions of man?

The reasons I cited (which are historically proveable) are enough for me to know it is not God ordained.
 
Upvote 0

zeker33:9

Blood bought
Oct 25, 2010
81
1
✟22,706.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. (John 4:22-24)

Where's yours?
 
Upvote 0

zeker33:9

Blood bought
Oct 25, 2010
81
1
✟22,706.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
What is interesting is, that Jesus' genealogy is documented in the Bible, and the nature of His birth both having been foretold and the fact it would be a virgin birth, the account of the angel coming to Mary and then to Joseph. All of this was important enough to document in the Gospels, the exact day however was not important. Truth is, we don't have to have a specific day in order to celebrate His coming into the world. Without His life, death, and resurrection, we would have no hope. It's too bad that you can only do what you are commanded to do.
 
Upvote 0

EastCoastRemnant

I Must Decrease That He May Increase
Site Supporter
Dec 8, 2010
7,665
1,505
Nova Scotia
✟210,609.00
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married

I see in this quote where the true worshippers shall worship the Father.... don't see alot of reference to celebrating a pagan holiday wrapped in the Christian flag.
 
Upvote 0

zeker33:9

Blood bought
Oct 25, 2010
81
1
✟22,706.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Long ago, about 2000 years, when King Herod ruled Judea (now part of Israel), God sent the angel Gabriel to a young women who lived in the northern town of Nazareth. The girl's name was Mary and she was engaged to marry Joseph.

The angel Gabriel said to Mary: 'Peace be with you! God has blessed you and is pleased with you.' Mary was very surprised by this and wondered what the angel meant. The angel said to her 'Don't be afraid, God has been very kind to you. You will become pregnant by the Holy Spirit and give birth to a baby boy and you will call him Jesus. He will be God's own Son and his kingdom will never end.' Mary was very afraid but she trusted God. 'Let it happen as God chooses.' She replied to the angel. Gabriel also told Mary that her cousin, Elizabeth who everyone thought was too old to have children, would have a baby boy whom God had chosen to prepare the way for Jesus.

Mary said goodbye to her family and friends and went to visit her cousin Elizabeth and her husband Zechariah. Elizabeth was very happy to see Mary. She knew that Mary had been chosen by God to be the mother of his Son. An angel had already told Zechariah that Elizabeth's baby would prepare people to welcome Jesus. He was to be called John. Mary stayed with Elizabeth about three months and then returned home to Nazareth.

Joseph was worried when he found out that Mary was expecting a baby before their marriage had taken place. He wondered if he should put off the wedding altogether. Then an angel appeared to Joseph in a dream and said: 'Don't be afraid to have Mary as your wife.' The angel explained that Mary had been chosen by God to be the mother of his Son and told Joseph that the baby would be named Jesus which means 'Saviour' because he would save people. When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel had told him to do and took Mary as his wife.

At this time, the land where Mary and Joseph lived was part of the Roman Empire. The Roman Emperor Augustus wanted to have a list of all the people in the empire, to make sure they paid their taxes. He ordered everyone to return to the town where their families originally came from, and enter their names in a register (or census) there. Mary and Joseph travelled a long way (about 70 miles) from Nazareth to Bethlehem, because that is where Joseph's family came from. Most people walked but some lucky people had a donkey to help carry the goods needed for the journey. Joseph and Mary travelled very slowly because Mary's baby was due to be born soon.

When they reached Bethlehem they had problems finding somewhere to stay. So many people had come to register their names in the census, that every house was full and every bed was taken in all of the Inns. The only shelter that they could was a stable or cave with the animals. In this poor place Mary gave birth to Jesus, the Son of God. In those days it was the custom to wrap newborn babies tightly in a long cloth called 'swaddling clothes'. Jesus' bed was the manger that the animals ate their hay from.

In the hills and fields outside Bethlehem, shepherds looked after their sheep through the long night. As the new day began, suddenly an angel appeared before them and the glory of God shone around them. The shepherds were very, very scared, but the angel said, 'Don't be afraid. I have good news for you and everyone. Today in Bethlehem a Saviour has been born for you. You will find the baby lying in a manger.'.

Then many more angels appeared, lighting up the sky. The shepherds heard them praising God singing: 'Glory to God in highest, and peace to everyone on earth.' When the angels had gone the shepherds said to one another, 'Let's go to Bethlehem to see what has happened.' So the shepherds went to Bethlehem and found Mary and Joseph. The baby Jesus was lying in a manger as they had been told. When they saw him, they told everyone what the angel had said and everyone who heard the story were astonished. Then the shepherds returned to their sheep, praising God for sending his Son to be their Saviour.

When Jesus was born, a brand new bright star appeared in sky. Some Wise Men in faraway countries saw the star and guessed what it meant. They were very clever men that studied the stars and had read in very old writings that a new star would appear when a great king was born. They set out to find the new king and bring him gifts.

The Wise Men followed the star towards the country of Judea and when they got to the capital called Jerusalem they began to ask people: 'Where is the child who is born to be king of the Jews?' Herod, the king of Judea, heard this and it made him very angry to think that someone might be going to take his place as king. Herod sent for the Wise Men to come to him. He told them to go on following the star until they had found the baby king. He said: 'When you have found him, let me know where he is, so that I can go and worship him.'. But Herod did not tell them that he really had an evil plan in mind to kill the new king.

The Wise Men followed the star towards Bethlehem (where it said that the king would be born in the old writings). It seemed to stop and shine directly down upon the place where Jesus was.

The Wise Men entered the house where they now lived and found Jesus with Mary, they bowed down and worshipped him. The Wise Men spread the the gifts they had brought before Jesus. The gifts were gold, frankincense and myrrh. The Wise Men were warned in a dream, by God, not to go back to Herod. So they returned home to their countries in the East by a different way.

When the Wise Men had gone, an angel appeared to Joseph in a dream. 'Get up,' the angel said, 'take Jesus and Mary and escape to Egypt. Stay there until I tell you, for Herod is going to search for Jesus to kill him.' So Joseph got up, took Jesus and Mary during the night they left for Egypt, where he stayed until Herod died.

When Herod realized that he had been tricked by the Wise Men, he was furious and he gave orders to kill all the boys aged two or younger in Bethlehem and the surrounding area. This was to try and kill the new King, as his plan to find the location of the new king from the Wise Men had failed.

After Herod had died, Joseph had another dream in which an angel appeared to him. The angel said, 'Get up, take Jesus and Mary and go back to Israel, for those who were trying kill Jesus are dead.'

So Joseph got up, took Jesus and Mary and they went back to Israel. But when he heard that Herod's son was now king of Judea, he was afraid to go there. So instead they went to Galilee, and lived in their old town of Nazareth.


And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying, Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.
(Luke 2:13-14)

Even the angels rejoiced (celebrated) His birth.

When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceeding great joy. And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh. (Matthew 2:10-11)

The Magi came from far away bearing gifts.

Sounds like a party to me.
 
Reactions: Sophia7
Upvote 0

EastCoastRemnant

I Must Decrease That He May Increase
Site Supporter
Dec 8, 2010
7,665
1,505
Nova Scotia
✟210,609.00
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
You do understand that the maji were not present at the manger, right? The reason Harod ordered all males under the age of two to be killed was because by this point, Jesus was somewhere between 1-2 yeears of age. Remember, that Harod had met with the maji on there way to Nazareth and so, would have been able to ascertain the approx age of Jesus. When the star appeared at Christs birth, the journey for the men of the east would have been long and they would have had to navigate through and around hostile lands to get there... not something that would have taken days but months.

The gifts that they came bearing were providential in nature... to enable Joseph and Mary to have the means to take Jesus into Egypt until the danger was passed.

Sorry, hadn't read all the above recounting of the advent and realized that you had already stated some of what I did....
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0