Hmmm, another Trinity question.

[d0c markus]

I was reading the thread by 2Timothy2 in this forum concerning the trinity and the second post mentioned this verse from as hardcore biblical support for the trinity. To my knowledge I had always heard that the trinity is only alluded to, so I looked it up in my Bible (ESV).

KJV - 1 John 5:7-8 For there are 3 that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost: and these 3 are one.

ESV - 1 John 5:7-8 For there are 3 that testify: the Spirit and the water and the Blood; and these 3 agree.

NASB - 1 John 5:7-8 For there are 3 that testify: the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.

NIV - 1 John 5:7-8 For there are three that testify: the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.

Which one is right? In the greek is the Father mentioned in these verses? (the greek word if I remember is patris no?)

So far, at least on the surface the KJV seems to be in error on this point.

 

[@@Paul@@]

I believe the KJV is the only right one!! I posted this in the other thread, but i'll repost here.

This verse controversy is known the "The Johannine Comma".. These verses are questionable because portions of verse (7) and (8) are only found in the latin manuscripts and a few late greek mss...

So, some think the verses should read as follows:

1Jo 5:8-8 KJV
(7) For there are three that bear record...(8) ...the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.​

And not (omitted words added in green)...

1Jo 5:7-8 KJV
(7) For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
(8) And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.​

Personally i feel it should be in there >> the statements fit the context.. That's simply my personal opinion.

 

[seebs]

The "extra" text is probably true, but is probably nonetheless not part of the original text. There was a thread on this in Bibliology a while back.

 

[@@Paul@@]

Posts: 23,598??? WOW, nice Job!!

 

[d0c markus]

I believe the KJV is the only right one!! I posted this in the other thread, but i'll repost here.


Personally i feel it should be in there >> the statements fit the context.. That's simply my personal opinion.

I dont know if I'd say the context fits it, as the father is not mentioned, rather he is at least reffered to in verse 9. Jesus and baptism are touched on heavily.

1Jo 5:7-8 KJV
(7) For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
(8) And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

​

Im have a thought, but its not allowing me put it into words right now.. If my brain cooperates later I'll relay them to you .

 

[d0c markus]

Posts: 23,598??? WOW, nice Job!!

He's an addict... we should pray for him