Hitler doesn't matter!

[tocis]

This is aimed at those who want to claim that "Hitler was a (whatever), so (whoever happens to share that trait with hitler) is eeeeeeebil!!!". If that doesn't concern you, feel free to ignore this thread.

So, for all you christians who like to claim "Hitler was an atheist so atheism is eeeeevil!!!" or similar (You know who you are, so I won't state any names here ):

Let's assume that indeed hitler was an atheist (and possibly an evolutionist(TM), and whatever evil traits you'd like to assign to the moustached madman)...

...did the dictator commit all those inhumanly disgusting crimes all by itself? Or could it be that those who gladly obeyed his orders were... at least predominantly... christians?

Remember: If you aren't one of those who base any arguments/claims on hitler, feel free to ignore this thread!

(For those who'd like to ask: I refuse to grant any human gender to this madman, so I'll refer to hitler as an "it" whenever I think of it...)

 

[ChristianCenturion]

This is aimed at those who want to claim that "Hitler was a (whatever), so (whoever happens to share that trait with hitler) is eeeeeeebil!!!". If that doesn't concern you, feel free to ignore this thread.

So, for all you christians who like to claim "Hitler was an atheist so atheism is eeeeevil!!!" or similar (You know who you are, so I won't state any names here ):

Let's assume that indeed hitler was an atheist (and possibly an evolutionist(TM), and whatever evil traits you'd like to assign to the moustached madman)...

...did the dictator commit all those inhumanly disgusting crimes all by itself? Or could it be that those who gladly obeyed his orders were... at least predominantly... christians?

Remember: If you aren't one of those who base any arguments/claims on hitler, feel free to ignore this thread!

(For those who'd like to ask: I refuse to grant any human gender to this madman, so I'll refer to hitler as an "it" whenever I think of it...)

Besides the fact that it is talking about an ad hominem fallacy, the opening has the context of a complaint and the general complaint may be committing hypocrisy.

If the complaint is about people associating Hitler's actions with Atheism (or whatever), why would associating those that followed the orders of Hitler with Christianity be more acceptable?

By today's relativist standard, any claim that X group is/was Christian (Atheist, Jew, or whatever) typically relies on the group's self-assertion. In contrast to that qualifier, the basis of Christendom (Jesus Christ and related Christian doctrine) outlines what a Christian is.

Of course, there is sometimes the occasional no true Scotsman fallacy thrown up as a claimed confirmation, but such a rebuttal dismisses that there is an established definition or qualifier found in Christian doctrine. One position may attempt to say self-designation is the accepted definition, but the foundation of Christendom declares something else altogether.

So, if the self-assertion does not match the foundation, then the reflection or traits would be applicable to the group as opposed to the reference foundation. Would it not?

BTW - Godwin's Law.

 

[tocis]

Besides the fact that it is talking about an ad hominem fallacy, the opening has the context of a complaint and the general complaint may be committing hypocrisy.

If the complaint is about people associating Hitler's actions with Atheism (or whatever), why would associating those that followed the orders of Hitler with Christianity be more acceptable?

Good question, ain't it?

Seriously now, I admit that not every christian thinks like that... but considering how often I meet this kind of thinking (not necessarily in this place I admit), I think it's kind of fair to ask this question.
If it turns out that most christians (at least in this place) do not share this opinion, so much the better.

 

[Robbie_James_Francis]

I think you're totally missing the point here, CC. It is not an attempt to argue against Christianity by pointing out that most of the Nazi party were self-professed Christians. It is pointing out that to make a claim about atheism based on Hitler being an atheist, which we can't say he really was, is ludicrous.

peace

 

[tocis]

I think you're totally missing the point here, CC. It is not an attempt to argue against Christianity by pointing out that most of the Nazi party were self-professed Christians. It is pointing out that to make a claim about atheism based on Hitler being an atheist, which we can't say he really was, is ludicrous.

Yep,. that pretty much explains what I had in mind

 

[metherion]

ARGUMENTUM AD HITLERIUM FTW!


rofl

Metherion

 

[ChristianCenturion]

I think you're totally missing the point here, CC. It is not an attempt to argue against Christianity by pointing out that most of the Nazi party were self-professed Christians. It is pointing out that to make a claim about atheism based on Hitler being an atheist, which we can't say he really was, is ludicrous.

peace

If you read my post again, you will note that I stated it was an ad hominem fallacy and I had used other groups in the principle I explained.

I think you've missed the point that I was somewhat in agreement with referenced practice being in error - generally speaking.

 

[loudatheist101]

First of all, Hitler was a Catholic, and second of all, even if he was an atheist, he didn't kill Jews in the name of atheism...

 

[Voegelin]

First of all, Hitler was a Catholic, and second of all, even if he was an atheist, he didn't kill Jews in the name of atheism...

No he didn't. Lenin, Trotsky, Zinoviev, Dzerzhinsky, Iagoda, Ezhov and Stalin did.

 

[loudatheist101]

Evidence please. And if they did, do you seriously now think that every atheist is going to act like Joseph Stalin?

 

[rebelEnigma]

So, for all you christians who like to claim "Hitler was an atheist so atheism is eeeeevil!!!" or similar (You know who you are, so I won't state any names here ):

Let's assume that indeed hitler was an atheist (and possibly an evolutionist(TM), and whatever evil traits you'd like to assign to the moustached madman)...

...did the dictator commit all those inhumanly disgusting crimes all by itself? Or could it be that those who gladly obeyed his orders were... at least predominantly... christians?

Surely you in all your wisdom could see that they were not Christian. No, they were not Christians, they were atheists like their leader. I'm sure a few called themselves Christians, but mostly there were atheists.

Trust me, there's a difference between saying you're a Christian and being a Christian.

Also

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/t...headline=thou-shalt-slaughter--name_page.html

A BIBLE featuring Adolf Hitler's version of the Ten Commandments has been discovered.
The dictator ordered the book rewritten to remove all references to lews.
In the Nazi bible, found in a German church, the regime who stole, murdered and plundered their way across Europe scrapped the likes of Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal and Thou shalt not covet your neighbour's wife.
And Hitler got his theorists to alter the Commandments - and add two more - in a bid to further the Aryan ideal for the book Germans With God.
New "Commandments" included Honour your Fuhrer and your master, Avoid all hypocrisy, and Keep the blood pure and your honour holy.
The book, printed in 1941 and sent thousands of churches, was meant to be essential reading in every home in Nazi Germany alongside Hitler's autobiography, Mein Kampf.

Hitler hated the church's teachings, believing they had no place in his vision of Germanic supermen ruling lesser races devoid of "outdated" concepts such as mercy and love.

But he knew the power of the church in Germany and couldn't banish it overnight. Instead, his plan was to gradually "Nazify" the church, beginning with a theological centre he set up in 1939 to rewrite the Bible.

He appointed professors to work on the Nazi version and remove all references to Jews and compassion.

But more important for Hitler was the eradication of Jewish words, including Hallelujah, Jehovah and even Jerusalem, which became "the eternal city of God".

Hitler, in a memo, said: "The book will have to serve the fight against the immortal Jewish enemy."

Christians are believed to have destroyed most copies.

 

[metherion]

Ah, the "No True Scotsman" fallacy comes up!

Metherion

 

[Phil4987]

(For those who'd like to ask: I refuse to grant any human gender to this madman, so I'll refer to hitler as an "it" whenever I think of it...)

True, most of us are capable of doing what Hitler did. It doesn't matter what we have faith in. We are human.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

No he didn't. Lenin, Trotsky, Zinoviev, Dzerzhinsky, Iagoda, Ezhov and Stalin did.

No, I don't think they did either.

Can anybody tell me any atheists who committed major crimes because of their atheism?

 

[tocis]

Surely you in all your wisdom could see that they were not Christian. No, they were not Christians, they were atheists like their leader.

A christian is someone who believes that Jesus was the Christ, savior of humankind. Of course some atheists will have been among those obeying the (beep)ard, but most were christians. Unless you want to change the definition of "christian" into whatever else, there's no way around that.

 

[tocis]

Can anybody tell me any atheists who committed major crimes because of their atheism?

Why am I not surprised?

 

[Futuwwa]

You're right, what Hitler was doesn't matter. Neither does it matter what Einstein was.