History of the Trinity

[Andrewn]

the Syriac Orthodox have according to reliable reports become the third church (after the two branches of the Church of the East) to reciprocate the offer of communion from Rome to Eastern Christians, albeit on a limited basis, in Turkey, where persecution of all Christians has been increasing.

My observation is that OO are doctrinally closer to the RCC than EO are, with the exception of the Filioque issue and Pope infallibility. This is perhaps attributable to significant deterioration of OO theology under Islamic rulers followed by some sort of a renaissance during a time when Catholic activity in the Middle East increased and OO clergy were sent to Rome for education.

I think theologically OO are somewhere in the middle between EO and the RCC. EO theology is more pure.

 

[The Liturgist]

My observation is that OO are doctrinally closer to the RCC than EO are, with the exception of the Filioque issue and Pope infallibility. This is perhaps attributable to significant deterioration of OO theology under Islamic rulers followed by some sort of a renaissance during a time when Catholic activity in the Middle East increased and OO clergy were sent to Rome for education.

I think theologically OO are somewhere in the middle between EO and the RCC. Except for the issue of distinguishing Essence and Energies, the EO theology is more pure.

I think what you say is only true in the case of the Armenian Orthodox Church, because it nearly reunited with Rome and it adopted Roman liturgical practices. The Copts, Ethiopians and Syriac Orthodox are much closer to the Eastern Orthodox, and the Armenian similarity to Rome is superficial; as conditions improved for the Oriental Orthodox churches, they reasserted an Easterness.

I would say the Eastern Orthodox are actually closer to Rome when it comes to theology because of the fourth through seventh ecumenical councils, and also the recent impact the Eastern Orthodox have had on Rome through the Eastern Catholic churches and the Vatican II constitution Lumen Gentium.

Also, of the Eastern churches, the Assyrian Church of the East usually tends to have the friendliest relations with the Roman Catholics these days.

 

[Andrewn]

The Copts, Ethiopians and Syriac Orthodox are much closer to the Eastern Orthodox,

We'll have to disagree about this. Remember the conflict between Patriarch Shenouda III and Abbot Matta el-Meskeen? The latter had EO leaning that went against the Catholic leanings of majority of the hierarchy.

 

[The Liturgist]

We'll have to disagree about this. Remember the conflict between Patriarch Shenouda III and Abbot Matta el-Meskeen? The latter had EO leaning that went against the Catholic leanings of majority of the hierarchy.

I do recall that conflict, to some extent, although it struck me as insignificant compared to the conflicts between Abbot Matta, Memory Eternal, and Pope Shenouda’s predecessors. It did not strike me as an EO vs. RC thing. Also, Pope Shenouda, Memory Eternal, while a great leader, was not infallible - Papal infallibility is not claimed by either the Greek or Coptic Popes of Alexandria, although the Greek Pope is styler His Beatitude Theodore II, Pope and Patriarch of Alexandria and All Africa, 13th Apostle and Judge of the Universe, despite being second in dignity among EO Patriarchs after His All Holiness Bartholomew, the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople.

Now, part of the reason why I don’t interpret the incident with Matta el Meskeen as being some kind of EO apologia within a Coptic context, is because the two generally got on well and were reconciled before the Abbot’s death, when Pope Shenouda visited him in 1996; the reforms of Coptic monasticism, which have an Athonite flavor, implemented by Abbot Mesheen, continue to stand, and also around the same time as their final brotherly retreat together, or shortly after, at some point in the 1990s, Pope Shenouda entered into an ecumenical agreement with his Greek Orthodox counterpart, whose name escapes me, but may his memory be eternal, who was killed if I recall in a helicopter crash, which established limited intercommunion so that Copts and Alexandrian Greeks, including converts in the mission field and members of the then-growing diaspora in South Africa, could freely marry each other and their children could be baptized in either church and they could receive the Eucharist in either church. It was not as emcompassing as the 1991 agreement between His Beatitude Patriarch Ignatius IV, memory eternal, and His Holiness Patriarch Ignatius Zakka Iwas, memory eternal, both of Antioch, the former of the Antiochian Orthodox Church and the latter of the Syriac Orthodox Church, but it was still a major breakthrough, and my understanding is that in practice, relations are even warmer.*

Now, that said, if you want to share why you feel the way you do, I am happy to hear you out; rather than agreeing to disagree, I prefer to think I am of sufficient humility to find out and update my mental model of the world when someone who is more knowledgeable does me the service of providing accurate correction, and from my interactions with you I have invincible confidence that you share this trait with me, and I am curious why you felt that way, because I had interpreted Matta El Meskeen’s Eastern Orthodox style reforms as being something that were resisted by Pope Shenouda’s predecessors, who did have a serious mistrust towards him, but were embraced by Pope Shenouda and are part of his legacy.

This is why the Jesus Prayer, for example, has become extremely popular in Coptic Orthodox monasticism, whereas previously it was memorization and recitation of the canonical hours and especially the Psalms proper to them in the Agpeya (the part of the Divine Office, specifically the prayer book in which most of the Psalter except for those Psalms used liturgically or as Odes in the Psalmody, are contained, and divided between the canonical hours of Prime, Terce, Sext, Noone, the 11th Hour, the 12th Hour, and the Prayer of the Veil, used mainly by clergy and monks before retiring; each office is fixed (the hours are the same every day except in Holy Week) unlike the Psalmody, which changes daily and consists of Vespers, Nocturns and Matins (the other part of the Coptic Divine Office is the Morning and Evening Raising of Incense; each of these likely originated differently, with the Psalmody and the Agpeya probably representing two schools among the early monastics, with the Morning and Evening Raising of Incense being remnants of a Cathedral Office; this is the opinion of Fr. Robert Taft, SJ, Memory Eternal, and I share it).

However, I am not familiar with every detail of the drama and I do know of the tensions that did occur, but not their full extent, because there have been other incidents more dramatic, such as the schism in the Ethiopian church, between the Ethiopians and the Copts after the Copts granted autocephaly to the Eritreans, after the Eritreans became de facto independent, and then the horrible schism between the two main Syriac Orthodox jurisdictions in India, and now the tragedy in Eritrea and the state control and persecution of the Eritrean church and the Islamic State incidents.

*I have also reliable reports of Copts receiving communion at St. Catharine’s Monastery, which is the seat of the autonomous Archbishop of Sinai, the Church of Sinai being the smallest autonomous Eastern Orthodox Church (autonomous but not autocephalous; they are under the Omophorion of the Patriarch of Jerusalem whose Holy Synod gets to appoint the Archbishop, much like any other autonomous Orthodox church like the Jacobite Church in India, the Maphrian of which is appointed by the Syriac Orthodox Patriarch of Antioch,* or the Finnish Orthodox Church, which is under the Omophorion of the Ecumenical Patriarchate, or the Orthodox Church of Japan, which is under the Omophorion of the Moscow Patriarch, or the Church of Montenegro, which is under the Omophorion of the Serbian Patriarch.



**there is a nasty schism with that church and the Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church, which I feel has not been charitable with the Jacobites, although both are in communion with the Copts and Armenians; hopefully it will be temporary, like the Soviet-era schism between the Armenian Catholicos of Holy Etchmiadzin, in Soviet-occupied Armenia, and his counterpart in free Lebanon, the Catholicos of the Great House of Cilicia; the two organized rival hierarchies in the US which still exist, but are no longer rivals, the animosity subsiding, and of course Constantinople and Jerusalem are under Patriarchs and are autocephalous Armenian churches, just as the Catholicoi are autocephalous, so there are actually nine autocephalous Oriental Orthodox churches, not counting the Malankara Independent Syriac Church, which while Orthodox in liturgy and praxis, is only in communion with the Protestant Mar Thoma Syrian Church, which is part of the Anglican Communion.

 

[Andrewn]

13th Apostle and Judge of the Universe,

Fascinating . How about the Lord's 70 apostles and the Apostle Paul?

I had interpreted Matta El Meskeen’s Eastern Orthodox style reforms as being something that were resisted by Pope Shenouda’s predecessors, who did have a serious mistrust towards him, but were embraced by Pope Shenouda and are part of his legacy.

No, the conflict was a lot worse with Patriarch Shenouda.

"But there seems to have been some major disagreements between both leaders and their followers,[1][15][16][17][18] e.g., in relation to the concept of theosis[19][20][21] and also regarding Father Matta's position on Mark 16.[22][23] Pope Shenouda's reply concerning the theological and dogmatic opinions of Fr. Matta.[24][25] (Arabic RealAudio; recorded in 1991/2003)[26] and H.E. Metropolitan Bishoy's lecture about Fr. Matta.[27]"

"A dispute between Bishop Shenouda and Father Matta began to grow, as Shenouda explicitly denounced Matta's thoughts, labelling some of his writings “heresies”. By 1971, Bishop Shenouda had become Pope Shenouda III, beginning an approximately four-decade spell during which he restricted Father Matta to the monastery and banned his books in Coptic churches."

In 2018, Bishop Epiphanius, who was one of Father Matta's disciples and who succeeded Father Matta as abbot of the Monastery of Saint Macarius, was murdered by 2 monks whom Patriarch Shenouda had installed in the monastery.

How a bishop's murder could change Egypt's Coptic church

The Monk and the Pope .. The relationship of the Coptic Church and the state with Father Matta al-Miskeen | tellerreport.com

 

[The Liturgist]

Fascinating . How about the Lord's 70 apostles and the Apostle Paul?


No, the conflict was a lot worse with Patriarch Shenouda.

"But there seems to have been some major disagreements between both leaders and their followers,[1][15][16][17][18] e.g., in relation to the concept of theosis[19][20][21] and also regarding Father Matta's position on Mark 16.[22][23] Pope Shenouda's reply concerning the theological and dogmatic opinions of Fr. Matta.[24][25] (Arabic RealAudio; recorded in 1991/2003)[26] and H.E. Metropolitan Bishoy's lecture about Fr. Matta.[27]"

"A dispute between Bishop Shenouda and Father Matta began to grow, as Shenouda explicitly denounced Matta's thoughts, labelling some of his writings “heresies”. By 1971, Bishop Shenouda had become Pope Shenouda III, beginning an approximately four-decade spell during which he restricted Father Matta to the monastery and banned his books in Coptic churches."

In 2018, Bishop Epiphanius, who was one of Father Matta's disciples and who succeeded Father Matta as abbot of the Monastery of Saint Macarius, was murdered by 2 monks whom Patriarch Shenouda had installed in the monastery.

How a bishop's murder could change Egypt's Coptic church

The Monk and the Pope .. The relationship of the Coptic Church and the state with Father Matta al-Miskeen | tellerreport.com

Oh, I remember that conflict now now. Pope Shenouda was opposed to the doctrine of Theosis but that actually set him against the Eastern Catholic Church, and furthermore, with his death, that position died. So you were correct on that point, and I was wrong. However, it was only in regards to Theosis that Pope Shenouda departed from Eastern Orthodox theology, and he was severely criticized for doing so. Also, unlike in the Roman Catholic Church, the Coptic Pope is not primus sine paribus but rather primus inter pares. I believe you are familiar with the story, which I have told a couple of times, about a Coptic Pope getting his mitre trounced for starting a divine liturgy without waiting for the arrival of the local diocesan bishop with whom he was to concelebrate? The Pope accepted the rebuke because his acts were a violation of the ancient canons concerning not intruding in another bishop’s diocese.

Now, regarding the murder, the likelihood of that being a “long game” conspiracy seems extremely slim. Rather, it is a fact that, on occasion, it is a documented fact of the church, especially the Eastern churches, that monks in the desert go insane due to, frankly, demonic attacks. Sometimes they commit suicide. Sometimes they become homicidal. A novice monk left St. Anthony’s Greek Orthodox Monastery in Florence, then drove back some time later with an SUV packed with an arsenal of weapons, and enough ammo to kill every monk and pilgrim. The unarmed monk who serves as night watchman, who is a former police officer, who I am privileged to have spent some time with (at the monastery, not on the force), due to what one might call fellow-pilgrim induced insomnia (the basement dormitories at St. Anthony’s can become less than conducive to sleep before the main liturgy at midnight on Sunday due to the crowd), pulled his old SUV up to meet the returning novice, who immediately committed suicide. Had the night watchman not pulled up with his truck, which has extra lighting for seeing on the unlit dirt roads and which the monk would have recognized, I have no doubt he would have killed everyone there.

Of course, I could be wrong about their motives, but I would be shocked if Pope Shenouda planted them, and I would still in any possible event regard it as a demonic attack within the monastery. Whatever your motive, if you kill a fellow monk, even your superior, you have committed fratricide, and this is by nature the realm of the diabolical.

 

[Andrewn]

@The Liturgist

I think theologically OO are somewhere in the middle between EO and the RCC. EO theology is more pure.

- Due to long centuries of Islamic rule there was significant deterioration of clergical education in both EO and OO churches and there were several attempts of union with the Catholic Church.

- "The Council of Ferrara-Florence in 1438-1445 was the most notable historic effort towards achieving ecumenical unity. The Western Church sent letters to their Greek counterparts enthusiastic about future unity. They gathered with the intent of doctrinal agreement and ending the schism. The Greeks in attendance did eventually accept the filioque clause, as well as the Latin perspective on the Eucharist, purgatory and papal primacy."

- "The bull of unity, Laetentur Caeli, brought about a complete reunification; having been proclaimed by the representatives of all five patriarchal sees. The evidence of unity was most sensationally seen in the participation in each other's liturgies,[29] as well as growing appreciation for respective patristic traditions."

- "The reunion of the Copts with Rome during the Council of Florence in 1442 and its acceptance by the Coptic pope JOHN XI (1427-1452) found no support among the Coptic people."

- "Unfortunately, this was short lived, due to the Eastern Orthodox deciding to later reject the union,[30] driven by the lower class’ anti-western sentiments and the fall of Constantinople to the Turks in 1453. Along with the antagonism was an ongoing disagreement over those theological issues dealt with in the Council: the filioque, purgatory and papal primacy.[31] The Orthodox argued that Florence should not be considered a valid Ecumenical Council, as it didn't follow the traditional method.[32]Ultimately, Florence served to highlight the overwhelming difficulty of unification."

- "In 1576, Pope Gregory XIII had established the Greek College in Rome with the stipulation that the students be instructed in Greek language, literature, theology, and ecclesiastical rites, and he prohibited the use of Latin. All this was soon ignored, and the Greek College became a tool of the Latinization of the Greeks and other Eastern Christians, including the Copts."

- The influences of Catholic theology permeated the ecclesiology, ethics, and spirituality of EO and OO churches for centuries.

- Since 1936, EO theologians started the neo-patristic movement in order to (i) recover the independence of Orthodoxy from Western scholastic patterns of thought and (ii) embrace a patristic-oriented approach to theology.

- The theology of Abbot Matta el Meskeen in the Coptic Church may be related to this corrective movement in Orthodox churches.

- While the neo-patristic movement succeeded in reforming EO, theology, the majority of Coptic clergy continue to adhere to Catholic theological views that have come to be considered the standard Coptic views in opposition to EO views.

- The Coptic Church does not accept the Filioque, purgatory, or Papal primacy. But most clergy believe the Catholic Satisfaction theory, inherited original sin, etc.

Catholic–Eastern Orthodox relations - Wikipedia

REVISITING THE AGENDA OF THE NEO-PATRISTIC MOVEMENT by Viorel Coman

Passing Beyond the Neo-Patristic Synthesis

https://coptic-wiki.org/coptic-relations-with-rome?amp&pdf=5181

 

[prodromos]

The Greeks in attendance did eventually accept the filioque clause, as well as the Latin perspective on the Eucharist, purgatory and papal primacy."

They were basically held under house arrest until they did. They were housed and fed at the Pope's pleasure and needed funds from the Pope to return home, none of which was forthcoming if they didn't capitulate to the terms dictated by Rome. That is why the union failed. The 'agreement' was reached under duress.

 

[The Liturgist]

@The Liturgist


- Due to long centuries of Islamic rule there was significant deterioration of clergical education in both EO and OO churches and there were several attempts of union with the Catholic Church.

- "The Council of Ferrara-Florence in 1438-1445 was the most notable historic effort towards achieving ecumenical unity. The Western Church sent letters to their Greek counterparts enthusiastic about future unity. They gathered with the intent of doctrinal agreement and ending the schism. The Greeks in attendance did eventually accept the filioque clause, as well as the Latin perspective on the Eucharist, purgatory and papal primacy."

- "The bull of unity, Laetentur Caeli, brought about a complete reunification; having been proclaimed by the representatives of all five patriarchal sees. The evidence of unity was most sensationally seen in the participation in each other's liturgies,[29] as well as growing appreciation for respective patristic traditions."

- "The reunion of the Copts with Rome during the Council of Florence in 1442 and its acceptance by the Coptic pope JOHN XI (1427-1452) found no support among the Coptic people."

- "Unfortunately, this was short lived, due to the Eastern Orthodox deciding to later reject the union,[30] driven by the lower class’ anti-western sentiments and the fall of Constantinople to the Turks in 1453. Along with the antagonism was an ongoing disagreement over those theological issues dealt with in the Council: the filioque, purgatory and papal primacy.[31] The Orthodox argued that Florence should not be considered a valid Ecumenical Council, as it didn't follow the traditional method.[32]Ultimately, Florence served to highlight the overwhelming difficulty of unification."

- "In 1576, Pope Gregory XIII had established the Greek College in Rome with the stipulation that the students be instructed in Greek language, literature, theology, and ecclesiastical rites, and he prohibited the use of Latin. All this was soon ignored, and the Greek College became a tool of the Latinization of the Greeks and other Eastern Christians, including the Copts."

- The influences of Catholic theology permeated the ecclesiology, ethics, and spirituality of EO and OO churches for centuries.

- Since 1936, EO theologians started the neo-patristic movement in order to (i) recover the independence of Orthodoxy from Western scholastic patterns of thought and (ii) embrace a patristic-oriented approach to theology.

- The theology of Abbot Matta el Meskeen in the Coptic Church may be related to this corrective movement in Orthodox churches.

- While the neo-patristic movement succeeded in reforming EO, theology, the majority of Coptic clergy continue to adhere to Catholic theological views that have come to be considered the standard Coptic views in opposition to EO views.

- The Coptic Church does not accept the Filioque, purgatory, or Papal primacy. But most clergy believe the Catholic Satisfaction theory, inherited original sin, etc.

Catholic–Eastern Orthodox relations - Wikipedia

REVISITING THE AGENDA OF THE NEO-PATRISTIC MOVEMENT by Viorel Coman

Passing Beyond the Neo-Patristic Synthesis

https://coptic-wiki.org/coptic-relations-with-rome?amp&pdf=5181

The Roman Catholic influence on the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox churches pre-1936 is greatly overstated. Mount Athos, for example, remained a bastion of EO purity, suspicious of anything Latin, which anyone who reads the works edited by St. Nicodemus the Hagiorite such as the Philokalia (co-edited by St. Macarius of Corinth) and the Pedalion can attest.

The same was true of the Russian church until the Nikonian reforms and the reign of Czar Peter the Great and his Westernizing heirs, however, an Athonite-influenced, Hesychast-inspired Patristic anti-Latinism blossomed in the 19th century, with The Way of the Pilgrim, the writings of St. Ignatius of Brianchaninov such as The Arena and On The Prayer of Jesus, et cetera.

Thus there has been a continual battle of will between East and West, and I would say among devout Roman Catholics, the East basically won, with Latinization being prohibited with Orientalium Dignitatis, and practices like the Jesus Prayer becoming widely accepted. And if you look at my favorite traditionalist Catholic website, the New Liturgical Movement, nearly half their content involved Byzantine or Eastern Rite Catholicism.

 

[The Liturgist]

They were basically held under house arrest until they did. They were housed and fed at the Pope's pleasure and needed funds from the Pope to return home, none of which was forthcoming if they didn't capitulate to the terms dictated by Rome. That is why the union failed. The 'agreement' was reached under duress.

And rendered moot through the actions of St. Mark of Ephesus and the Athonite Monks.

Basically the Orthodox Christians of what was left of the Byzantine Empire sacrificed that Empire to retain their religious identity and autonomy. Accepting Turkocratia was a dreadful sacrifice to make, a heroic sacrifice, but they made it, and it was successful.

Ironically the Copts made the same sacrifice; unity with the Chalcedonians might have kept the Muslims out of Egypt but it would have destroyed Coptic Orthodoxy, and I think Eastern Orthodoxy benefitted from this, because Oriental Orthodoxy has consistently been Theopaschite and Icononodulist, and there have been periods of positive relations, which are reflected by liturgical influences (thus the Copts and the Eastern Orthodox have an almost identical Holy Unction liturgy, which the Copts and Russians still observe on the Friday before the Lazarus Saturday and Palm Sunday, the Syriac Orthodox have Byzantine Canons, and some Qanones written in the same format, and the Eastern Orthodoxy have Theopaschitism and the hymn Ho Monogenes and the Liturgy of the Presanctified (both of which appear to have originated with St. Severus of Antioch).

 

[Andrewn]

The same was true of the Russian church until the Nikonian reforms and the reign of Czar Peter the Great and his Westernizing heirs, however, an Athonite-influenced, Hesychast-inspired Patristic anti-Latinism blossomed in the 19th century, with The Way of the Pilgrim, the writings of St. Ignatius of Brianchaninov such as The Arena and On The Prayer of Jesus, et cetera.

In Russia there was significant religious decline before the fin-de-siècle religious renaissance. A study of EO and OO religious education, seminaries, and theological tendencies in the Middle Ages, would be most interesting. Perhaps you can shed light on this subject?

 

[The Liturgist]

In Russia there was significant religious decline before the fin-de-siècle religious renaissance. A study of EO and OO religious education, seminaries, and theological tendencies in the Middle Ages, would be most interesting. Perhaps you can shed light on this subject?

Well the decline really occurred during the 18th century, due to the Westernizing policies of Czar Peter and his successors, and their uncanonical control over the Russian Orthodox Church. However, even then, Russian monasteries still managed to be in operation, Russian monks were in Mount Athos, which was undergoing a Hesychast renaissance under the guidance of a select range of Greek monks like St. Nicodemus the Hagiorite and St. Macarius of Corinth, which spread to Russia, which contributed, along with St. Seraphim of Sarov, who many Eastern Orthodox regard as their answer to St. Francis of Assisi, to the spiritual revitalization of Russian Orthodoxy, Ukrainian Orthodoxy, and also the Eastern Catholic Churches.

The 18th century was also the era of one of the two most gifted Russian Orthodox sacred music composers, the Ukrainian Dmitri Bortnianski, who along with Pavel Chesnokov, a Russian who died of malnutrition in a bread line in 1944, who stopped composing music after Stalin blew up (not demolished, but exploded) the now rebuilt Cathedral of the Holy Savior in Moscow. Rachmaninoff is also immensely talented, a view shared by my Australian friend @Paidiske , but unfortunately he only gave us one set of music, a setting of the All Night Vigils and of the Divine Liturgy. And these works are not always accessible to church choirs (although I have seen some remarkably good small choirs in Russian and Ukrainian churches).

I think there was Pan-Orthodox suffering however at times, due mainly to Islamic persecution, or governmental interference from Byzantine Constantinople and then Turkish-occupied Constantinople or Moscow, but I would not call it spiritual decline. The same is I believe is true of the Oriental Orthodox churches. There were brief periods of stagnation, usually more than one per church, but they have always come out of it, probably due to the tendency of Eastern Christians to resist change, which I think leads to an awareness of a decline in faith, which results in revitalization.

By the way, regarding seminaries, as we now understand them, these were a product of the Counter Reformation which was then adapted by Protestantism, as the ideal means of spiritual formation of clergy. This eventually reached Eastern Orthodoxy. Even today however, some jurisdictions such as the autonomous Russian Orthodox Church Abroad (ROCOR, whose Ukrainian leader Metropolitan Hilarion Kapral, died in May sadly), will ordain people without them going through their own seminary, Holy Trinity in Jordanville. Likewise, it is uncommon for Coptic priests to have gone to seminary. My understanding is that it is more common among the Syriac Orthodox, and even more common under the Armenian Orthodox.

However, the lack of seminaries did not equate to intellectual stagnation. Just as the work of the ancient Patristic schools of Alexandria and Antioch was assumed by monasteries. This is something we see click remarkably into place after the birth of the cenobitic monastery under St. Pachomius, which then spread north from Egypt to Cappodacia, across Syria, creating an almost linear highway of monasteries, and thence to Europe with the Benedictine monasteries and the work of St. Augustine and especially St. John Cassian, whose Conferences were commonly read in the refectory (also known as a trapeza or dining hall) in Western monasteries until the High Middle Ages and the emergence of Scholastic theology, and who still is
extremely important in Eastern Christianity, as the main reference on rejecting Pelagianism, which is regarded as a particularly nasty heresy in the Eastern churches. The Oriental Orthodox scarcely even bothered with him and have never embraced Pelagianism.

In general, the scholarship of these churches occurred within monasteries, and even today, many seminaries are also monasteries, for example, the Syriac Orthodox monastery-seminaries in Switzerland, Bavaria, the Netherlands and Sweden, or ROCA’s aforementioned Holy Trinity Monastery and Seminary in Jordanville, or St. Tikhon’s Monastery and Seminary, which was, like Russia, part of the Russian Orthodox Church; they were slightly less hardline regarding the Moscow Patriarchate during the communist period, and the OCA received a Tomos of Autocephaly from the MP in 1970, whereas ROCA reconciled with the MP in 2007 (a similar but more intense flare up did occur in the Armenian Apostolic Church).