History of Christmas

[Avodat]

Still doesn't make sense - never mind.

 

[Patricio]

Well probably the reason why you don't understand is because you don't want to.

All doctrines, rules, rituals and writings that contradicts the Torah are just merely men's opinions, these include Talmud and Kabbalah. And all that stuff, because they aren't written in the Torah are not worth studying and practicing.

Adonai simply wants us to obey Him. That's all!

 

[Marahuta]

Oh, dear we've been through this Christmas debate before, several times over! I wish people would read up what we have said previously by looking back through threads, before starting yet another thread on an already worn out subject! Don't know about others but I am tired of posting on this subject!

I find it very funny and highly hypocrytical how you bash me for answering to a new thread on an old topic *sigh* but completely ignore the fact that the thread itself was not created by me. So instead of shooting your sadness and mizery towards me, how about you tell ask person that created this thread why he created it? Hm?

Furthermore, nobody is forcing you to read any of the threads and posts, or reply to them, so if you are tired of doing that, then simply stop doing it. Common sense, right ?

 

[Avodat]

Well probably the reason why you don't understand is because you don't want to.

All doctrines, rules, rituals and writings that contradicts the Torah are just merely men's opinions, these include Talmud and Kabbalah. And all that stuff, because they aren't written in the Torah are not worth studying and practicing.

Adonai simply wants us to obey Him. That's all!

I might agree, but just remember who wrote Torah. A group of men!

 

[Avodat]

I find it very funny and highly hypocrytical how you bash me for answering to a new thread on an old topic *sigh* but completely ignore the fact that the thread itself was not created by me. So instead of shooting your sadness and mizery towards me, how about you tell ask person that created this thread why he created it? Hm?

Furthermore, nobody is forcing you to read any of the threads and posts, or reply to them, so if you are tired of doing that, then simply stop doing it. Common sense, right ?

Don't flatter yourself - I wasn't responding to you.

 

[Steve Petersen]

You read your Bible, you are reading it through your interpretive lense. You have just established your own 'tradition.'

Don't kid yourself about not accepting the 'traditions of men.' You are one.

 

[yedida]

Well probably the reason why you don't understand is because you don't want to.

All doctrines, rules, rituals and writings that contradicts the Torah are just merely men's opinions, these include Talmud and Kabbalah. And all that stuff, because they aren't written in the Torah are not worth studying and practicing.

Adonai simply wants us to obey Him. That's all!

How do you obey God's commands? How do you worship, when and why? How do you observe the dietary laws and know you're obeying? I'm curious.

 

[Patricio]

I might agree, but just remember who wrote Torah. A group of men!

Yeah a Group of Men who followed the Torah and didn't opposed His Mitzvot by adding their opinions there.

 

[Patricio]

How do you obey God's commands?

Being Torah observant doesn't means to keep all "613" original mitzvot. Since as we all know, some mitzvot were directed at the cohens (priests) only; some were only for men; some only for women, and some were only for a certain timeframe. But some were perpetual commandment,and I believe those are the ones that believers must pay attention to. Like, His Shabbat, His Moedim (the festivals), His Ten Words, and miscellaneous instructions such as wearing tzit tzit, commandments about mikvah, and so on and so forth...

And also as a follower of Yeshua, I chose to imitate Him. He and the Abba was ONE so I think one of his purpose why He came here on Earth was to be a role model and show us how to obey His mitzvot (as Adonai clearly saw How the Ancient Sages add talmudic commandments to the Torah)

How do you worship, when and why?

I praise and worship Him everyday. But I serve Him during His appointed time. Every Shabbat, Pesach, Hag HaMatzoh, Hag Bikkurim, Shavuot, Yom Teruah, Yom Kippur and Sukkoth. I also serve Him during Hannukah as Yeshua acknowledge it but I dont light candles. I only do and practice what was outlined in the Torah. Nothing more, nothing less.

I do this not because I want to be saved but because Yeshua saved me from pit of lies and deceptions. This is just my sign of gratitude to Him.

How do you observe the dietary laws and know you're obeying?

I only eat "clean" foods since that particular mitzvot was never negated. Kosher Law always was, and still is, Adonai's Commandment. He never said pork, shellfish, etc. were food so I dont consider them as a food.

 

[yedida]

Being Torah observant doesn't means to keep all "613" original mitzvot. Since as we all know, some mitzvot were directed at the cohens (priests) only; some were only for men; some only for women, and some were only for a certain timeframe. But some were perpetual commandment,and I believe those are the ones that believers must pay attention to. Like, His Shabbat, His Moedim (the festivals), His Ten Words, and miscellaneous instructions such as wearing tzit tzit, commandments about mikvah, and so on and so forth...

And also as a follower of Yeshua, I chose to imitate Him. He and the Abba was ONE so I think one of his purpose why He came here on Earth was to be a role model and show us how to obey His mitzvot (as Adonai clearly saw How the Ancient Sages add talmudic commandments to the Torah)



I praise and worship Him everyday. But I serve Him during His appointed time. Every Shabbat, Pesach, Hag HaMatzoh, Hag Bikkurim, Shavuot, Yom Teruah, Yom Kippur and Sukkoth. I also serve Him during Hannukah as Yeshua acknowledge it but I dont light candles. I only do and practice what was outlined in the Torah. Nothing more, nothing less.

I do this not because I want to be saved but because Yeshua saved me from pit of lies and deceptions. This is just my sign of gratitude to Him.



I only eat "clean" foods since that particular mitzvot was never negated. Kosher Law always was, and still is, Adonai's Commandment. He never said pork, shellfish, etc. were food so I dont consider them as a food.

I don't know if you caught it or not. but what little you listed off actually is not in Torah. The "to do" IS, the "how to do", very little is actually in Torah.
It's great that you are trying to eat kosher, but like Chava and Lulav have pointed out - if you eat a scrambled egg at McDonald's, that egg was scrambled on the same grill that moments before fried up some bacon or a sausage patty totally unkoshering the egg! Yeah, yeah, I know, God looks on the heart and intentions. That was good and fine when you didn't know....problem with forums = you learn. Now for all purposes you might as well order the bacon to eat along with the egg or make sure of how foods are cooked where you order fast foods.

And Yeshua also said of the priests and scribes of his day, that they sit in Moses' seat, therefore, what they tell you to do, do it. Just don't do as they do for they are hypocritical. So, Yeshua was not against many of the man-made traditions, just those that were kept in place of God's commands. He observed Chanukkah - that is not one of God's commanded feast days!

I felt the same way you do many years ago. But the Talmud is not the bad book many make it out to be. There are thousands of years of godly men's studies & discussions tied up in it - some great, some ho-hum, some not so much of either of those. But it's a worthwhile book to listen to most of the time; or turn to someone who knows what's in it or where to find the answer you need. Take their guidance, do some further studying and some praying and see how it goes. But to just flatly call it "man's traditions" is not wise. After all, much of what's found it in was known in Yeshua's day, he knew of it (at least the Gemara and Mishna), and so did the apostles! Still just "men's traditions"?

 

[Patricio]

I don't know if you caught it or not. but what little you listed off actually is not in Torah. The "to do" IS, the "how to do", very little is actually in Torah.

Oh so I need to specify them all on how I celebrate Shabbat and the feasts?

Well this will be a long post then, if I type them all here!

It's great that you are trying to eat kosher, but like Chava and Lulav have pointed out - if you eat a scrambled egg at McDonald's, that egg was scrambled on the same grill that moments before fried up some bacon or a sausage patty totally unkoshering the egg! Yeah, yeah, I know, God looks on the heart and intentions. That was good and fine when you didn't know....problem with forums = you learn. Now for all purposes you might as well order the bacon to eat along with the egg or make sure of how foods are cooked where you order fast foods.

I dont eat at McDonalds because I didnt trust their ingredients really. But I ate on two specific fast food chain that separate their cooking pots, utensils and others by labeling those as pork, seafoods, vegetables, beef and chicken

And Yeshua also said of the priests and scribes of his day, that they sit in Moses' seat, therefore, what they tell you to do, do it. Just don't do as they do for they are hypocritical. So, Yeshua was not against many of the man-made traditions, just those that were kept in place of God's commands. He observed Chanukkah - that is not one of God's commanded feast days!

I felt the same way you do many years ago. But the Talmud is not the bad book many make it out to be. There are thousands of years of godly men's studies & discussions tied up in it - some great, some ho-hum, some not so much of either of those. But it's a worthwhile book to listen to most of the time; or turn to someone who knows what's in it or where to find the answer you need. Take their guidance, do some further studying and some praying and see how it goes. But to just flatly call it "man's traditions" is not wise. After all, much of what's found it in was known in Yeshua's day, he knew of it (at least the Gemara and Mishna), and so did the apostles! Still just "men's traditions"?

Yedida, that was not my understanding but I'm still a student. Until the Ruach HaKodesh corrects me I'm gonna say NO!.

There was a passage in NT which indicates Yeshua took away the yoke of slavery.

In Galatians 5:1,
What the Messiah has freed us for is freedom! Therefore, stand firm, and don’t let yourselves be tied up again to a yoke of slavery.

Yeshua has freed all believers from something Paul calls "a yoke of slavery". This particular verse has been used as an allegory on Christian freedom (4:21-31).The Christians believe that the yoke of slavery is the burden of the whole Old Testament (Torah). But it is not and it was not.

And also a surface reading of Colossians 2:13–14 would appear to say that the Torah has been nailed to the Cross, but this is not the case. This is one of the often misunderstood passages by the Christians, Paul speaks of a written dogmatic and fanatic doctrine or rite of condemnation that was nailed to the cross. This document is frequently misinterpreted as the Torah. But again, it is not and it was not.

Col 2:14 blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and has taken it out of the way, nailing it to the cross.

In Colossians 2:14, The word “ordinances” comes from the Greek word “Dougma” the word Dougma means the “teachings of men” or man made law. I know you will agree to me that it is not the Torah which Yeshua nailed to the cross but what is it?

It is the teachings of men (The Talmud). What Paul was saying is that the commandments of man that they add to the Torah which consists of decrees against us for our sins, were being cancelled. The added commandments brought some burden to the Israel and it resulted to condemnation and guilt.

In the Col 2:23, Paul shows the intent of his instruction, which is to head off the invention of more man made opinion about how we should act. “Which things have indeed a show of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honor to the satisfying of the flesh.”

 

[yedida]

Oh so I need to specify them all on how I celebrate Shabbat and the feasts?

Well this will be a long post then, if I type them all here!



I dont eat at McDonalds because I didnt trust their ingredients really. But I ate on two specific fast food chain that separate their cooking pots, utensils and others by labeling those as pork, seafoods, vegetables, beef and chicken





Yedida, that was not my understanding but I'm still a student. Until the Ruach HaKodesh corrects me I'm gonna say NO!.

There was a passage in NT which indicates Yeshua took away the yoke of slavery.

In Galatians 5:1,
What the Messiah has freed us for is freedom! Therefore, stand firm, and don’t let yourselves be tied up again to a yoke of slavery.

Yeshua has freed all believers from something Paul calls "a yoke of slavery". This particular verse has been used as an allegory on Christian freedom (4:21-31).The Christians believe that the yoke of slavery is the burden of the whole Old Testament (Torah). But it is not and it was not.

And also a surface reading of Colossians 2:13–14 would appear to say that the Torah has been nailed to the Cross, but this is not the case. This is one of the often misunderstood passages by the Christians, Paul speaks of a written dogmatic and fanatic doctrine or rite of condemnation that was nailed to the cross. This document is frequently misinterpreted as the Torah. But again, it is not and it was not.

Col 2:14 blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and has taken it out of the way, nailing it to the cross.

In Colossians 2:14, The word “ordinances” comes from the Greek word “Dougma” the word Dougma means the “teachings of men” or man made law. I know you will agree to me that it is not the Torah which Yeshua nailed to the cross but what is it?

It is the teachings of men (The Talmud). What Paul was saying is that the commandments of man that they add to the Torah which consists of decrees against us for our sins, were being cancelled. The added commandments brought some burden to the Israel and it resulted to condemnation and guilt.

In the Col 2:23, Paul shows the intent of his instruction, which is to head off the invention of more man made opinion about how we should act. “Which things have indeed a show of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honor to the satisfying of the flesh.”

I won't argue further with you on this - you'll learn as you grow.

 

[Patricio]

I won't argue further with you on this - you'll learn as you grow.

THANK YOU!

But I have a question for you, how will you explain the particular commandment of Adonai about adding on the Torah?

 

[yedida]

THANK YOU!

But I have a question for you, how will you explain the particular commandment of Adonai about adding on the Torah?

Most of what you're fighting is not adding on to the Torah - that would be whole new commandments. Thy car shall be red, and only red. This is a commandment. It doesn't say a specific shade of red. So, light red, pinkish red, ruby red, coral red, orange red, etc., are all useable. Changing the command would be Thy car shall be red, and only red, and only fire-engine red. The Talmud doesn't do that. It does not add to the commandment. It does sometimes build fences so that the command won't be broken, but those aren't all bad, nor are they all good either - those you just have to pray about.

 

[Patricio]

Most of what you're fighting is not adding on to the Torah - that would be whole new commandments. Thy car shall be red, and only red. This is a commandment. It doesn't say a specific shade of red. So, light red, pinkish red, ruby red, coral red, orange red, etc., are all useable. Changing the command would be Thy car shall be red, and only red, and only fire-engine red. The Talmud doesn't do that. It does not add to the commandment. It does sometimes build fences so that the command won't be broken, but those aren't all bad, nor are they all good either - those you just have to pray about.

Thank you!

But since I am still a newbie in this faith, I suppose I need to concentrate on the written Torah first before dwelling on the Oral ones.

 

[Patricio]

Most of what you're fighting is not adding on to the Torah - that would be whole new commandments. Thy car shall be red, and only red. This is a commandment. It doesn't say a specific shade of red. So, light red, pinkish red, ruby red, coral red, orange red, etc., are all useable. Changing the command would be Thy car shall be red, and only red, and only fire-engine red. The Talmud doesn't do that. It does not add to the commandment. It does sometimes build fences so that the command won't be broken, but those aren't all bad, nor are they all good either - those you just have to pray about.

Alright, upon making some series of thorough reflections, I realized that some talmudic teachings aren't all bad and some of them I even practiced unaware since I do inquire of extra biblical sources.

For example, every Friday evening we begin our Shabbat service by distinguishing the "kodesh," that which is holy, and that which is "chol," or profane as commanded in Leviticus, with special Sabbath blessings -- this is what we call Erev Shabbat (I know you already that). During our Erev service we are always reciting the blessings for the candles, bread, and wine. We see these elements as symbols. Yeshua used these symbols to describe himself. These are customs which connect the Messiah to the thread of the Jewish tradition.

The Light of the World — John 8: 12
The Living Water — John 7: 37- 38
The Bread of Life — John 6:35

But these were all came from Talmud. I am not really sure what part but I think there's nothing wrong with them. Although, they are man's writings,they aren't just there opinions! Because I can see they are God-inspired.

 

[Avodat]

Alright, upon making some series of thorough reflections, I realized that some talmudic teachings aren't all bad and some of them I even practiced unaware since I do inquire of extra biblical sources.

For example, every Friday evening we begin our Shabbat service by distinguishing the "kodesh," that which is holy, and that which is "chol," or profane as commanded in Leviticus, with special Sabbath blessings -- this is what we call Erev Shabbat (I know you already that). During our Erev service we are always reciting the blessings for the candles, bread, and wine. We see these elements as symbols. Yeshua used these symbols to describe himself. These are customs which connect the Messiah to the thread of the Jewish tradition.


The Light of the World — John 8: 12
The Living Water — John 7: 37- 38
The Bread of Life — John 6:35

But these were all came from Talmud. I am not really sure what part but I think there's nothing wrong with them. They are man made yes! But I can see they are God-inspired.

So you have set up a mini-sect!

 

[Patricio]

So you have set up a mini-sect!

Mini-sect? Why?

 

[Avodat]

As you are the final arbiter as to what is right and acceptable, with no one to whom you need to answer (except what you, personally, perceive G_d to be saying to you) and no external accountability, you are a mini-sect.

 

[pat34lee]

As you are the final arbiter as to what is right and acceptable, with no one to whom you need to answer (except what you, personally, perceive G_d to be saying to you) and no external accountability, you are a mini-sect.

Isn't that as it should be? The man is to be the leader and priest in his home.