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History of Charismatic Renewal

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CatholicFlame

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Here is a reference for that person,..

http://www.biblestudying.net/charismatic17.html



She was not the first person to speak in tongues for any pentecostal movement, just the first of that guys students.


Here's a reference for Maria,..




http://enrichmentjournal.ag.org/199901/086_woodsworth_etter.cfm

BTW, tongues are only one of the gifts. There are greater ones that we are to seek from GOD also, such as the power gifts, like working of miracles and gifts of healing. They are the hardest to receive and maintain. Tongues is but a stepping stone for a born-again Christian.

I do not doubt that this lady had gifts of the Spirit, but I still haven't heard of any other person besides Agnes Oznam who was the first to pray in tongues to begin this great move of the holy Spirit.

Tell me if you find some other links Arbiter, Mrs. Oznam is the first that I have found.
 
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CatholicFlame

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I was just reading one of the articles that I had posted in the OP and this totally caught my eye:

On the promptings of Sr. Elena, Pope Leo XIII issued several important documents concerning the Holy Spirit. First in 1895, he wrote an apostolic letter, Provida Matris Caritate, which he ended by asking all the faithful to celebrate a solemn novena (nine days of prayer) to the Holy Spirit between the feasts of Ascension and Pentecost for the intention of the reunion of Christianity.

Is God good or what? The holy Spirit is doing miracles for the whole church, and we are seeing it happen before our very eyes.

here is the whole article again to put this quote in context:
http://burningbush.beatitudes.org/english/history.htm
 
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ARBITER01

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I do not doubt that this lady had gifts of the Spirit, but I still haven't heard of any other person besides Agnes Oznam who was the first to pray in tongues to begin this great move of the holy Spirit.

Tell me if you find some other links Arbiter, Mrs. Oznam is the first that I have found.

It seems you may be going on a few assumptions here. The gift of tongues is not always present when a person has the infilling of The Spirit, or what is called the baptism of The Spirit. Many folks of the charismatic circles report this, and it was my experience at first also. I prophesied instead of tongues, but had the gift of tongues manifest later after fasting and seeking GOD for it.

The idea that the baptism of The Spirit is only relevent if tongues is present is a doctrine that comes predominantly from my denominational circle, the pentecostals. It is not scripturally sound, and not all us believe that way. Any of the vocal gifts can be manifested at a persons infilling.

The gift of tongues is to be adamantly persued by the believer though, until evident in a persons life, since it is the only gift that will allow a person to "build up in your most holy faith, praying in The Holy Spirit." You can't do it any other way.

Also,.... The Holy Spirit has never stopped handing out His gifts to believers over the years, so it is sort of hard to pinpoint a time when any movement began with the gifts being the criteria. Movements of GOD start with long prayer times, just like our forefathers up in the upper room. It takes a perseverance out of believers, and that means hours on end.

Back to Maria, the gift of tongues were always present at her meetings, I could probably go through one of her books that I have and give dates and places. In fact, she was skeptical at first of the movement out of Asuza street since they laid so much importance on tongues, but she eventually accepted it as a movement from GOD.
 
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CatholicFlame

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It seems you may be going on a few assumptions here. The gift of tongues is not always present when a person has the infilling of The Spirit, or what is called the baptism of The Spirit. Many folks of the charismatic circles report this, and it was my experience at first also. I prophesied instead of tongues, but had the gift of tongues manifest later after fasting and seeking GOD for it.

The idea that the baptism of The Spirit is only relevent if tongues is present is a doctrine that comes predominantly from my denominational circle, the pentecostals. It is not scripturally sound, and not all us believe that way. Any of the vocal gifts can be manifested at a persons infilling.

The gift of tongues is to be adamantly persued by the believer though, until evident in a persons life, since it is the only gift that will allow a person to "build up in your most holy faith, praying in The Holy Spirit." You can't do it any other way.

Also,.... The Holy Spirit has never stopped handing out His gifts to believers over the years, so it is sort of hard to pinpoint a time when any movement began with the gifts being the criteria. Movements of GOD start with long prayer times, just like our forefathers up in the upper room. It takes a perseverance out of believers, and that means hours on end.

Back to Maria, the gift of tongues were always present at her meetings, I could probably go through one of her books that I have and give dates and places. In fact, she was skeptical at first of the movement out of Asuza street since they laid so much importance on tongues, but she eventually accepted it as a movement from GOD.

No sir, I totally agree with you about what you have said here about the teaching of baptism in the Holy Spirit. That is a very sound teaching you are giving right there.

All I am saying really is that from all my search, I can find no other person who was the first to pray in tongues in this new move of God besides Agnes Oznam.

I'm really talking particularly about the gift of tongues in this.

If you have some link online, I would really love to read it though.

Thanks!
 
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ARBITER01

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No sir, I totally agree with you about what you have said here about the teaching of baptism in the Holy Spirit. That is a very sound teaching you are giving right there.

All I am saying really is that from all my search, I can find no other person who was the first to pray in tongues in this new move of God besides Agnes Oznam.

I'm really talking particularly about the gift of tongues in this.

If you have some link online, I would really love to read it though.

Thanks!


Did a movement of GOD erupt from the place she was at when she spoke in tongues?
 
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CatholicFlame

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Did a movement of GOD erupt from the place she was at when she spoke in tongues?

Yes I believe so... I think she was the first person to pray in tongues and it spread from there.

LOL of course like I said, she is not the first, the apostles did of course and the early church too, even some saints throughout history did.

But she was the first at the beginning of the pentecostal revival, from what I have read.
 
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ARBITER01

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Yes I believe so... I think she was the first person to pray in tongues and it spread from there.

LOL of course like I said, she is not the first, the apostles did of course and the early church too, even some saints throughout history did.

But she was the first at the beginning of the pentecostal revival, from what I have read.

Here is something I found about Miss Ozman,..

Agnes Ozman (1870-1937) was a female student at Charles Fox Parham's Bible School in Topeka Kansas. In 1901 she made Pentecostal history by being the first member of this Bible school to speak with other tongues. When she got the "gift" it is recounted that she could not speak a word of English for three days! Many credit her experience with the initial flood of spiritual gifts being released into the Church, yet a careful reading of Church history proves that people had already been speaking in other tongues via Sister Etter's meetings some eleven years prior to Agnes Ozman's experience. However, it was a black man and woman named William Seymour and Lucy Farrow who were students at Parham's school who took this new experience with them to Los Angeles and from Azusa street the neo-Pentecostal movement was birthed.

It is from here,..

http://www.discernment.org/articles/womenof.htm

Although I think that site is anti-women in positions of authority, they did find what I was talking about.

Maria was already on the field leading the charge through the gifts, all of them.
 
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ARBITER01

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Found it. It was on a site that I previously posted from,..

4. Maria Beulah Woodworth, The Life, Work, and Experiences of Maria Beulah Woodworth (St. Louis: by author, 1894), 54. I have found only one reference to speaking in tongues [in her 1885 book] prior to 1900. She told of her husband's conversion in 1885 when he "seemed to speak with other tongues."

It was from this site,..

http://enrichmentjournal.ag.org/199901/086_woodsworth_etter.cfm

So the Spiritual gifts were documented in operation in America prior to the 1901 Kansas event, although some sites are still erroneously crediting the Ozman event as the first that somehow sparked a movement here.
 
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It seems you may be going on a few assumptions here. The gift of tongues is not always present when a person has the infilling of The Spirit, or what is called the baptism of The Spirit. Many folks of the charismatic circles report this, and it was my experience at first also. I prophesied instead of tongues, but had the gift of tongues manifest later after fasting and seeking GOD for it.

The idea that the baptism of The Spirit is only relevent if tongues is present is a doctrine that comes predominantly from my denominational circle, the pentecostals. It is not scripturally sound, and not all us believe that way. Any of the vocal gifts can be manifested at a persons infilling.

The gift of tongues is to be adamantly persued by the believer though, until evident in a persons life, since it is the only gift that will allow a person to "build up in your most holy faith, praying in The Holy Spirit." You can't do it any other way.

Also,.... The Holy Spirit has never stopped handing out His gifts to believers over the years, so it is sort of hard to pinpoint a time when any movement began with the gifts being the criteria. Movements of GOD start with long prayer times, just like our forefathers up in the upper room. It takes a perseverance out of believers, and that means hours on end.

Back to Maria, the gift of tongues were always present at her meetings, I could probably go through one of her books that I have and give dates and places. In fact, she was skeptical at first of the movement out of Asuza street since they laid so much importance on tongues, but she eventually accepted it as a movement from GOD.


I am at work so cannot spend as much time as I want reading your posts.
I am interested in the fact that you propheied before receiving the gift of tongues.
Have you found this to be rather rare occurance?
I have felt that tongues was a much commoner occurance, prayer tongues, that is than prophesy.

I think you have some great stuff to share here. I look forward to chatting with you.
Blessings.
 
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ARBITER01

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I am at work so cannot spend as much time as I want reading your posts.
I am interested in the fact that you propheied before receiving the gift of tongues.
Have you found this to be rather rare occurance?
I have felt that tongues was a much commoner occurance, prayer tongues, that is than prophesy.

I think you have some great stuff to share here. I look forward to chatting with you.
Blessings.

My experience is more common to charismatic circles, not pentecostal circles. Charismatics don't believe that the gift of tongues is evidence of the infilling. That is why under their forum specific rules you see this disclaimer,...

We do not believe that there is any gift that is 'evidence' of the filling of the Holy Spirit, rather that the Holy Spirit gives gifts as he chooses for the purposes of the Building up of the Body of Christ. The fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23), as seen in a change of character, is a better indication of the filling of the Spirit.

That is mostly in response to us pentecostals since most of our denominational doctrines ascribe the baptism of The Holy Spirit as only evident when a person speaks in tongues, and they don't like hearing that. The gifts and fruit go together, and you see them wrongly leaning towards some evidence of fruit only.

Anyways, it is not as uncommon as many think. I knew I had to have the gift of tongues as my prayer language, so I persued it till I recieved it from GOD. I've met others over the years that have had the infilling, who demonstrate different Spiritual gifts in their ministries, but don't have the gift of tongues predominant in their lives, or only speak it when The Holy Spirit prompts them from inside.

Prime example,..the very person I'm talking about in this thread, Maria Etter, she did not speak in tongues till around 1912, but she demonstrated probably ever other gift through her ministry for years up to that point.

No one can do healing without the gifts of healings flowing through them, same with Miracles and the working of miracles, so she definitely had the infilling way before she ever spoke in tongues. That is why she had some reservations about the outbreak at Azusa and them laying such stress on tongues, since she herself did not speak in them at that point.
 
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CatholicFlame

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Found it. It was on a site that I previously posted from,..



It was from this site,..

http://enrichmentjournal.ag.org/199901/086_woodsworth_etter.cfm

So the Spiritual gifts were documented in operation in America prior to the 1901 Kansas event, although some sites are still erroneously crediting the Ozman event as the first that somehow sparked a movement here.

Ya know, you may be right that others had the gift before her. After all, in the cahtolic church we have had teh spiritual gifts with us for many years.

Maybe Agnes Oznam is given so much credit because from her gift, the Azusa revival came about and nearly eveyone received the great ourpouring that came from that.

I don't know how many Catholics have heard of Asuza Street, but from my understanding it was the catalyst that put so much in motion.
 
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CatholicFlame

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Prime example,..the very person I'm talking about in this thread, Maria Etter, she did not speak in tongues till around 1912, but she demonstrated probably ever other gift through her ministry for years up to that point.

No one can do healing without the gifts of healings flowing through them, same with Miracles and the working of miracles, so she definitely had the infilling way before she ever spoke in tongues. That is why she had some reservations about the outbreak at Azusa and them laying such stress on tongues, since she herself did not speak in them at that point.

Hey wait a minute! I just read this and you just said that she didn't pray in tongues before Azusa St.!!!

Arbiter, it seems that I was right about Agnes Oznam after all!
 
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ARBITER01

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Hey wait a minute! I just read this and you just said that she didn't pray in tongues before Azusa St.!!!

Arbiter, it seems that I was right about Agnes Oznam after all!

As I said, she witnessed her husband speaking in tongues, which she reported this in 1885, well before the 1900 dating.

Additionally, tongues is not the measure of some movement of GOD. I don't know how much more I can state that to you. People can pray in tongues all they want and never be used of GOD greatly, ever. We have loads of pentecostal and charismatic followers, and nothing grand from GOD has been happening for years already.

A movement of GOD is dependant on more than just recieving the gifts, or operating in them.
 
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ARBITER01

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I was hoping I would get home early enough tonight to chat with you about this.
It was my sons birthday and it just took too long.
I hope you will be here tomorrow after I get in from work.
I can see you have some good stuff to share.

Blessings

What question did you have?
 
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ARBITER01

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I would like to hear about our gift of Prophesy.

Well, in relation to prophecy, we have Peter relating the bit that Joel spoke about it,..

17 (ASV) {1} And it shall be in the last days, saith God, I will pour forth of my Spirit upon all flesh: And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, And your young men shall see visions, And your old men shall dream dreams: {1) Joe 2:28 ff}

I do think my experience of prophesying at first instead of tongues was related to that prophecy of Joels, and there has been others who have had this same experience as I. So for me, tongues wasn't the witness of the infilling, prophecy was.
 
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