His Will

[visionary]

Aren't we supposed to "surrender" to the "Will" of the Father? Is it not His will that we should have His Torah written upon our hearts? If His will is that we should, "guard to do all that is written in this book of the Torah".


What does it really mean to "surrender to His will"?

 

[dfw69]

Aren't we supposed to "surrender" to the "Will" of the Father? Is it not His will that we should have His Torah written upon our hearts? If His will is that we should, "guard to do all that is written in this book of the Torah".


What does it really mean to "surrender to His will"?

Believe his son...obey his son...love one another.....forgive sin 70x7 in one day...love enemies...judge not condemn not by any law...and keep the faith..

Man is God ..we are his image ..if you spit in man's face you spit in God's eye...Christ followers are know by the way they love mankind

..but the enemy comes in sheep's clothing but are thieves and raving wolves...who hate mankind and seek to kill steal and destroy....by their fruits you know them...

 

[GloryToGod91]

Reminds me of this- "One famous account in the Talmud tells about a gentile who wanted to convert to Judaism. This happened not infrequently, and this individual stated that he would accept Judaism only if a rabbi would teach him the entire Torah while he, the prospective convert, stood on one foot. First he went to Shammai, who, insulted by this ridiculous request, threw him out of the house. The man did not give up and went to Hillel. This gentle sage accepted the challenge, and said:

"What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation of this--go and study it!"

 

[daq]

Reminds me of this- "One famous account in the Talmud tells about a gentile who wanted to convert to Judaism. This happened not infrequently, and this individual stated that he would accept Judaism only if a rabbi would teach him the entire Torah while he, the prospective convert, stood on one foot. First he went to Shammai, who, insulted by this ridiculous request, threw him out of the house. The man did not give up and went to Hillel. This gentle sage accepted the challenge, and said:

"What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation of this--go and study it!"

Welcome to the board!
And probably because the Prophets expound Torah Yeshua adds Prophets:

Therefore all things whatsoever you would that men should do to you, do you even so to them: for this is the Torah and the Prophets. Matthew 7:12.

 

[rick357]

Believe his son...obey his son...love one another.....forgive sin 70x7 in one day...love enemies...judge not condemn not by any law...and keep the faith..

Man is God ..we are his image ..if you spit in man's face you spit in God's eye...Christ followers are know by the way they love mankind

..but the enemy comes in sheep's clothing but are thieves and raving wolves...who hate mankind and seek to kill steal and destroy....by their fruits you know them...

Yeshua called disciples not students
A student would be the relationship of Plato to Socrates and Aristotle to Plato...men who sat under thier teachers to learn all thier thought and enlarge it
A disciple is quite different...he leaves behind all of himself to learn of his masters thought teaching and living with the goal that he would become exactly as his master is.
We must see the word made flesh by all the word.we can learn some of Yeshua teaching but all his conclusion come from within and he is the living word...if he was differant from the written word then he can not be the word incarnate and we must as him become the living word...we must do this by the same way he did it....it was a work of YHWH he came from the Father and returned to the Father showing he was one with the Father. He did not come out from the earth and did not return to it showing his life is apart from the earth.
The disciple starts from the position of the later and must give up to death that position hence the old man must be crucified in Messiah
That the new man may be given life from the Father by the son through the Spirit.

 

[daq]

Aren't we supposed to "surrender" to the "Will" of the Father? Is it not His will that we should have His Torah written upon our hearts? If His will is that we should, "guard to do all that is written in this book of the Torah".

What does it really mean to "surrender to His will"?

We all probably know this one:

Not every one that says unto me, Master Kyrie, shall enter into the kingdom of the heavens; but he that does the will of my Father which is in the heavens. Matthew 7:21.

But what is the will of the Father according to some other passages?

Hebrews 10:35-39 KJV
35. Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
36. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
37. For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
38. Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
39. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

1 Thessalonians 4:1-8 KJV
1. Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more.
2. For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.
3. For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
4. That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;
5. Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:
6. That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.
7. For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.
8. He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.

 

[dfw69]

Yeshua called disciples not students
A student would be the relationship of Plato to Socrates and Aristotle to Plato...men who sat under thier teachers to learn all thier thought and enlarge it
A disciple is quite different...he leaves behind all of himself to learn of his masters thought teaching and living with the goal that he would become exactly as his master is.
We must see the word made flesh by all the word.we can learn some of Yeshua teaching but all his conclusion come from within and he is the living word...if he was differant from the written word then he can not be the word incarnate and we must as him become the living word...we must do this by the same way he did it....it was a work of YHWH he came from the Father and returned to the Father showing he was one with the Father. He did not come out from the earth and did not return to it showing his life is apart from the earth.
The disciple starts from the position of the later and must give up to death that position hence the old man must be crucified in Messiah That the new man may be given life from the Father by the son through the Spirit.

I believe that the new man given to us is the new body of incorruption.....that the father will give us after the end of our faith...at an appointed time ...which is all possible because of the son...who made atonement for all...that our new bodies are given to us at the resurrection through the power of the holy spirit....yes...

But to say that new creation is given to us now...is technically not correct...we are called a new creation by the father now in spirit.....but we will receive the fullness of that new creation at the appointed time....for now... mans spirit wars with the flesh ...but one day that will end when corruption puts on incorruption....and we will be like him...

Thus the need to forgive our nieghbors friends enemies even the saints who are not perfect until the time that hashem makes us perfect ...for now we must be as the father ...who forgives and has mercy upon those whom are called by his name..and obey his son...nor are we ever called to judge and condemn anyone by any law...we must look at all men as children of hashem....and let hashem be the judge of mankind...just as yahshua judge not nor threw one stone....but came to serve...so must we...until he returns

 

[rick357]

I believe that the new man given to us is the new body of incorruption.....that the father will give us after the end of our faith...at an appointed time ...which is all possible because of the son...who made atonement for all...that our new bodies are given to us at the resurrection through the power of the holy spirit....yes...

But to say that new creation is given to us now...is technically not correct...we are called a new creation by the father now in spirit.....but we will receive the fullness of that new creation at the appointed time....for now... mans spirit wars with the flesh ...but one day that will end when corruption puts on incorruption....and we will be like him...

Thus the need to forgive our nieghbors friends enemies even the saints who are not perfect until the time that hashem makes us perfect ...for now we must be as the father ...who forgives and has mercy upon those whom are called by his name..and obey his son...nor are we ever called to judge and condemn anyone by any law...we must look at all men as children of hashem....and let hashem be the judge of mankind...just as yahshua judge not nor threw one stone....but came to serve...so must we...until he returns

I am in agreement with the first half of what you have said...as to judgment I do not judge any man by the law...the law has already showed us what sin is and also that we were slaves to sin and could not keep it...no one needs that explained to them...the Holy Spirit convictes of sin...my job is to witness that Yeshua has freed us from sin and restored us to YHWH. Now follow the following math
The wages of sin is death
Even when I agree the law is good sin is in me
YHWH is no respector of persons the soul that sins shall die
So keeping the law is life for Moses testified that we must choose life (law keeping) or death(law breaking)
I can not obtain to life for death is presant in me
Yashua came that I could have life and life more abundant
The old Adamic man must die that the new man from The Father may be joined to me
Yeshua has freed me from sin how can I remain there
The man of sin dies with Messiah the Spirit animates my flesh and gives me life
That the righteousness of the law may be fulfilled in us who walk not by the flesh but by the Spirit
The commandment stop being my judge and become my promise that by the Spirit I shall not lie steal kill destroy offend YHWH
so work out your salvation
And trust him completly leaning no trust on the dead man for deliverance

 

[dfw69]

I am in agreement with the first half of what you have said...as to judgment I do not judge any man by the law...the law has already showed us what sin is and also that we were slaves to sin and could not keep it...no one needs that explained to them...the Holy Spirit convictes of sin...my job is to witness that Yeshua has freed us from sin and restored us to YHWH. Now follow the following math
The wages of sin is death
Even when I agree the law is good sin is in me
YHWH is no respector of persons the soul that sins shall die
So keeping the law is life for Moses testified that we must choose life (law keeping) or death(law breaking)
I can not obtain to life for death is presant in me
Yashua came that I could have life and life more abundant
The old Adamic man must die that the new man from The Father may be joined to me
Yeshua has freed me from sin how can I remain there
The man of sin dies with Messiah the Spirit animates my flesh and gives me life
That the righteousness of the law may be fulfilled in us who walk not by the flesh but by the Spirit
The commandment stop being my judge and become my promise that by the Spirit I shall not lie steal kill destroy offend YHWH
so work out your salvation
And trust him completly leaning no trust on the dead man for deliverance

Who am I to shipwreck ones faith?... I'm glad you judge no one by the law.....that's good...

But as for me and my house...we serve the Lord yahushuah...we believe in his covering for us ...his shed blood for us...setting us free from the power of the law...that he has obtained the righteousness of the law for us....so we set the law aside...and serve his laws...and hold to the faith .....that he will give us eternal life and give us the promises because he has obtained all the promises.....he is able to give it to us....who trust in him for all things

..I know this is hard for many to accept...but it's what we believe...I rather trust in Christ to fulfill the law for me...than to try to serve the law for myself knowing myself that I cannot please God in this flesh....that's the honest truth...so instead I seek to please God in the spirit by serving him in the faith....loving all men...as if man was Christ before me ..as if everyone ...every man is God in the flesh...that is how I seek to please my father in heaven..

 

[daq]

Who am I to shipwreck ones faith?... I'm glad you judge no one by the law.....that's good...

But as for me and my house...we serve the Lord yahushuah...we believe in his covering for us ...his shed blood for us...setting us free from the power of the law...that he has obtained the righteousness of the law for us....so we set the law aside...and serve his laws...and hold to the faith .....that he will give us eternal life and give us the promises because he has obtained all the promises.....he is able to give it to us....who trust in him for all things

..I know this is hard for many to accept...but it's what we believe...I rather trust in Christ to fulfill the law for me...than to try to serve the law for myself knowing myself that I cannot please God in this flesh....that's the honest truth...so instead I seek to please God in the spirit by serving him in the faith....loving all men...as if man was Christ before me ..as if everyone ...every man is God in the flesh...that is how I seek to please my father in heaven..

Wow that must have been an astounding revelation for you: "...Every man is God in the flesh..." - "...I rather trust in Christ to fulfill the law for me..." - "...so we set the law aside...", (oh, and don't forget: Don't let anyone "shipwreck" your faith!).

A ship with no rudder will wreck of its own accord, being driven under the currents of the sea and of the wind; eventually it will be hammered into the jagged rocks or sandy sludge of whatever coastline it happens to chance upon, and that is only if it is not first broken up by a tempestuous Euroclydon.

 

[aniello]

" tempestuous Euroclydon"

That would really be breaking wind.

 

[HannibalFlavius]

39. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

Son of perdition, lawlessness?

What do you think the definition of lawlessness is Daq?

It couldn't mean having no law, what does it mean?

That word is so hard to define.

It could literally mean anything.

 

[dfw69]

Wow that must have been an astounding revelation for you: "...Every man is God in the flesh..." - "...I rather trust in Christ to fulfill the law for me..." - "...so we set the law aside...", (oh, and don't forget: Don't let anyone "shipwreck" your faith!).

A ship with no rudder will wreck of its own accord, being driven under the currents of the sea and of the wind; eventually it will be hammered into the jagged rocks or sandy sludge of whatever coastline it happens to chance upon, and that is only if it is not first broken up by a tempestuous Euroclydon.

..my rudder is the words of yahushuah

Yes I know I'm a simple man...

But many do not see Muslims also as sons of hashem..and the fact is ...evil men have no regard for human life ..but we Christians believe man is hashem ..yahshua treated all men equal...we must do the same

That is the will of hashem...

 

[HannibalFlavius]

..my rudder is the words of yahushuah

Yes I know I'm a simple man...

But many do not see Muslims also as sons of hashem..and the fact is ...evil men have no regard for human life ..but we Christians believe man is hashem ..yahshua treated all men equal...we must do the same

Christians converted to another religion, and began killing people not like themselves.

I know this because Christians have a completely different worship system apart from God.

God has his Passover, Christians have their bunny.

God has his Sukkot Bull and Christians have an image in the form of a tree.

God has his law, and Christians are against his law.

Let us hope that it's ok to be in another religion, even the Muslims believe and speak of Jesus, even the Hindus.

 

[dfw69]

Christians converted to another religion, and began killing people not like themselves.

I know this because Christians have a completely different worship system apart from God.

God has his Passover, Christians have their bunny.

God has his Sukkot Bull and Christians have an image in the form of a tree.

God has his law, and Christians are against his law.

Let us hope that it's ok to be in another religion, even the Muslims believe and speak of Jesus, even the Hindus.

Is a Jew still a Jew if he kills?..the law says though shalt not kill?

How can a Christian be a Christian if he kills?..a Christians cannot kill....if he did...he is not a Christian...but a son of hasatan ...who comes to kill steal and destroy..

 

[dfw69]

Son of perdition, lawlessness?

What do you think the definition of lawlessness is Daq?

It couldn't mean having no law, what does it mean?

That word is so hard to define.

It could literally mean anything.

I believe it means to break Christ laws...he is antichrist...against Christ sayings and teachings....against his laws..

 

[daq]

" tempestuous Euroclydon"

That would really be breaking wind.

Haha, yea, like those who ignored Paul when he admonished them to winter in a safe harbor after The Fast, (and thus to stay put through Sukkot and Chnukat-Dedications) but they chose to ignore the feasts and proceed with their journey according to their own desires doing things their own way. And in the end they ended up fasting the entire fourteen days, (seven days and seven days; even fourteen days!).

Acts 27:9-33 KJV
9. Now when much time was spent, and when sailing was now dangerous, because the fast was now already past, Paul admonished them,
10. And said unto them, Sirs, I perceive that this voyage will be with hurt and much damage, not only of the lading and ship, but also of our lives.
11. Nevertheless the centurion believed the master and the owner of the ship, more than those things which were spoken by Paul.
12. And because the haven was not commodious to winter in, the more part advised to depart thence also, if by any means they might attain to Phenice, and there to winter; which is an haven of Crete, and lieth toward the south west and north west.
13. And when the south wind blew softly, supposing that they had obtained their purpose, loosing thence, they sailed close by Crete.
14. But not long after there arose against it a tempestuous wind, called Euroclydon.
15. And when the ship was caught, and could not bear up into the wind, we let her drive.
16. And running under a certain island which is called Clauda, we had much work to come by the boat:
17. Which when they had taken up, they used helps, undergirding the ship; and, fearing lest they should fall into the quicksands, strake sail, and so were driven.
18. And we being exceedingly tossed with a tempest, the next day they lightened the ship;
19. And the third day we cast out with our own hands the tackling of the ship.
20. And when neither sun nor stars in many days appeared, and no small tempest lay on us, all hope that we should be saved was then taken away.
21. But after long abstinence Paul stood forth in the midst of them, and said, Sirs, ye should have hearkened unto me, and not have loosed from Crete, and to have gained this harm and loss.
22. And now I exhort you to be of good cheer: for there shall be no loss of any man's life among you, but of the ship.
23. For there stood by me this night the angel of God, whose I am, and whom I serve,
24. Saying, Fear not, Paul; thou must be brought before Caesar: and, lo, God hath given thee all them that sail with thee.
25. Wherefore, sirs, be of good cheer: for I believe God, that it shall be even as it was told me.
26. Howbeit we must be cast upon a certain island.
27. But when the fourteenth night was come, as we were driven up and down in Adria, about midnight the shipmen deemed that they drew near to some country;
28. And sounded, and found it twenty fathoms: and when they had gone a little further, they sounded again, and found it fifteen fathoms.
29. Then fearing lest we should have fallen upon rocks, they cast four anchors out of the stern, and wished for the day.
30. And as the shipmen were about to flee out of the ship, when they had let down the boat into the sea, under colour as though they would have cast anchors out of the foreship,
31. Paul said to the centurion and to the soldiers, Except these abide in the ship, ye cannot be saved.
32. Then the soldiers cut off the ropes of the boat, and let her fall off.
33. And while the day was coming on, Paul besought them all to take meat, saying, This day is the fourteenth day that ye have tarried and continued fasting, having taken nothing.

I guess its a "law thingy" that "God in the flesh" men would not understand . . .

Edit:

Son of perdition, lawlessness?

What do you think the definition of lawlessness is Daq?

It couldn't mean having no law, what does it mean?

That word is so hard to define.

It could literally mean anything.

Lawlessness = Torahlessness

 

[rick357]

Who am I to shipwreck ones faith?... I'm glad you judge no one by the law.....that's good...

But as for me and my house...we serve the Lord yahushuah...we believe in his covering for us ...his shed blood for us...setting us free from the power of the law...that he has obtained the righteousness of the law for us....so we set the law aside...and serve his laws...and hold to the faith .....that he will give us eternal life and give us the promises because he has obtained all the promises.....he is able to give it to us....who trust in him for all things

..I know this is hard for many to accept...but it's what we believe...I rather trust in Christ to fulfill the law for me...than to try to serve the law for myself knowing myself that I cannot please God in this flesh....that's the honest truth...so instead I seek to please God in the spirit by serving him in the faith....loving all men...as if man was Christ before me ..as if everyone ...every man is God in the flesh...that is how I seek to please my father in heaven..

the problem here is you have already said you cant fulfill the law(I agree no son of Adam can) then you say you by your love for Him love all men...yet Yeshua said that is how you fulfill the same law you said you cant keep.one of the two cant be true.
It is not I but christvin me...this is Pauls conclusion
The law is not bondage do you wish to break it...is it not instead how you long to live
Our bondage is to sin these are the things we wish we would not do but find ourself doing
But through Yeshuas sacrifice and the Fathers gift(grace) Holy Spirit works and lives through us leading us to perfect trust in Elohim to be our life..NOT help us live...NOT make us better but to live through us
These things being true when I see myself do things that are against his nature it does not make me say I must keep the law but it shows me I am trusting the old man and drives me into having faith in what he has done that the spirit may walk in and through me

 

[HannibalFlavius]

I believe it means to break Christ laws...he is antichrist...against Christ sayings and teachings....against his laws..

How will you keep from breaking Christ's laws if you don't know them?

If you stand against all that is called of God or that is worshipped, you are standing against God's worship system and his commandments.

If you are lawless, then you are lawless.

We do not have to wonder about what Jesus says on the matter, he doesn't leave any room for opinion.

You have an opinion because you don't believe Christ words, and if you don't believe Christ himself, then how can you follow his laws, or even know his laws?


Jesus came showing the great secrets of Torah, but if you despise and disrespect the Torah, how will you ever know what the secrets of Torah are, and it is not two Torahs, it is one, and neither are against the other.

But unless somebody tells you what the law of Jesus is, why do you speak of it?

Here is a secret of the law Jesus came showing, but it does not cancel out the physical law.

The Rights of the Apostles
…8I am not speaking these things according to human judgment, am I? Or does not the Law also say these things? 9For it is written in the Law of Moses, "YOU SHALL NOT MUZZLE THE OX WHILE HE IS THRESHING." God is not concerned about oxen, is He? 10Or is He speaking altogether for our sake? Yes, for our sake it was written, because the plowman ought to plow in hope, and the thresher to thresh in hope of sharing the crops.…

Jesus came saying that if you hate your brother, you are a murderer, but why do you suppose that murder is not longer sin?

 

[pshun2404]

Let's take an honest poll? Who here keeps the Law perfectly?

Under the Law God demands perfect obedience and man is incapable of providing it (especially how Yeshua more clearly defined it)...God cannot tolerate imperfect obedience under the Law...so who then can be saved? How can a man be made right before a Holy God? Have not all sinned? Repentance is essential but it will happen again (somewhere at some time)...but the children of faith believe God and trust God...while you were yet sinners Messiah died for us. Just remember that. Grace without the Law is meaningless presumption, but the Law without grace is condemnation...strive therefore to enter in at the strait gate and trust Him to cover (kapher) the rest under the blood of His Lamb.