Hillsong!

[Bevlina]

To be absolutely honest with everyone, I don't know enough about Hillsong to be able to comment. I have one CD and liked the music. That's as far as it goes.
Today, I visited an aged lady who used to attend a beautiful little country church near her home. This church was very old, and so quaint that it's photo remained on the web for sometime. Today...is is closed. The stained glass windows have been removed. And, it stands as a silent witness to many people who believed, who loved, who were just country people who loved going to their church.
But that's it. The church didn't "rock".
The pastors only preached the Word of God in there. And...what does it matter if it is now closed. After all...it's only in the country.
Pastor's of churches want the city where the money is.
Forgive me if I sound bitter. Fact is............I am.
Nobody seems to care about the people who live in the country. It's always city...city...city. BIG churches for BIG cities. Forget the little churches and the people who gave their money in the country in order to make the big churches in the city "ROCK".

 

[Droobie]

I think that there is a misconception of WOF that you pray and do nothing. That's not how it works at all. You pray, believing that God is in control and will bless your life... then WORK HARD towards what you pray for. For example, if you are praying for a job. WOF does not mean you pray for a job, then sit on you butt and do nothing. You pray that God will open doors for you when you search for jobs, apply for interviews... that God will be with you during those interviews... etc. WOF is knowing that you have God on your side. That no matter what happens, that God wants and desires to bless you, but not through your laziness or slothfullness. God blesses you through your hard work and your faithfulness in Him.

 

[Wolflily]

I agree with you. God blesses sacrifice, but it's not always financial sacrifice or financial blessing. He has provided my husband and I with so much when we've stepped out in faith obeyed Him in a number of ways over the past few years. But it's not always "material" blessing.

One of the things that makes me wary of not so much "big" churches, but very faith or Spirit-emphasized churches is the false hope that God will bless you financially and make life easy for you if you just ask for it. It's the "name it and claim it" brand of heresy - God doesn't even promise us that all of our blessings will be given to us in this realm. If you look at anyone from the Bible -most of them had it extremely difficult and didn't look for earthly treasure - they knew to store up their treasure in Heaven, which is not something a lot of churches emphasize anymore. Especially here in America!

You've got to be careful of any person who follows the "Faith Movement" - these include Benny Hinn. They teach false doctrine and are misleading people in many areas. Hank Hanegraaf wrote a great book on the Faith Movement called "Christianity in Crisis" - I highly recommend it to give anyone who's interested a clear perspective of this situation in contemporary Christianity today.

 

[LivingWorship]

Hi all hope I don't stir too much of a hornet's nest but I will say a couple of words... as a believer I love the body of Christ so it will not surprise you to find I love the church (ie the people) of Hillsong... there are some really genuine Christians, there, among the most active and passionate I know. However, as a believer who also feels a responsibility to speak the truth - IN LOVE - there is a broader issue here. The truth is, no matter what you say to try and justify the Word/Faith movement, they have another agenda. The vast majority of these mega-churches are Word Faith, and little wonder, the idea of claiming what you believe in faith is admirable... house, fancy car, job - you name it.

Is God a God of faith? You bet!! But one thing people will have noticed is that in the Old Testament, there is much focus on wealth as a blessing from God. In the New, the focus turns to SPIRITUAL wealth - "the Kingdom of God is like a pearl..."; "God has given us every spiritual blessing..."; "seek first the kingdom of God...". Whenever physical wealth is dealt with in the New Testament, it is considered more of a curse than a blessing... didn't Jesus say sell all you have, and command His followers to essentially drop it all and follow Him? I'm not suggesting for us to necessarily do that, but I really feel that my own denomination in my city (I live 10 minutes away from Hillsong) has a lot to answer for.

Truth is Word Faith has tried to combine OT theology (now obsolete because of the New Covenant) and mixed it up with NT doctrine, and we have this doctrine. While it sounds nice and has a lot of people following it we must ensure we preach the UNADULTERATED WORD OF GOD. Also, our focus should always be the Cross. Instead, I find every time I visit Hillsong, it's all about the money. We must learn to tithe, granted but not to be made to feel guilty or to coax people into giving by claiming you'll get it back or whatever, because that's not what we are told by the Bible.

As for linking up with the Benny Hinns and Kenneth Copelands... well these guys have shredded the Word and unless there is repentance and a change in heart (and preaching!) then I will not pay any attention to them, the best way to learn about God and the Bible is to pray and READ THE BIBLE. Please brothers and sisters, I'm not here to bag anyone except warn you of those who seek to take our focus off the Lord. If I am wrong, I pray right now that this post will fall on deaf ears. Praise the Lord, and blessings everyone

 

[Bevlina]

Hey Living!!! Welcome!!! And...what a fantasric post! I agree with every word you say.
I recall I was once fascinated by Marilyn Hickey and also Kenneth Copeland. One morning, I was watching the Marilyn Hickey show and she said "I am looking at millionaires, yes, you heard me, millionaires. I can promise you now that if you plant a seed of faith, you will be a millionaire. You can send me your seed of faith in money and God WILL, and I say WILL make YOU, a millionaire."
She lost me as a fan as from that morning.
I was reading one of Kenneth Copeland's monthly magazines. He was extolling the "partnership" business. I thought that rather strange because, if millions of people became partners...there's millions of dollars. However...I continued to read his book and I read the words which finished me with him.....
"Tell people you can heal them and they will come from anywhere and pay you anything...."
Never, in my life, have I been so disgusted. Using people who were sick to make money. I turned my back on christianity for awhile after reading those words. And, I made certain all my friends read them too.
This is the question I have with Hillsong. The money angle. It all seems to dwell on money these days. And...that is what sickens me.
People don't read their history about the widows mite at the Temple. People don't KNOW how the laws of the land were changed regarding tithing in, I think 1850.
In the catholic church here (and catholics DO know their history) you give what you can afford.
The WOF movement...no, I can only see them as a money drive. And...they make BIG money. I'll search out the figures. It is MEGA. You see...churches are tax exempt I believe. And if so...it's high time the Government's taxed them.
And, what is so sad, it is trusting, honest, hardworking, taxpaying folk they are taking the money from. People who believe GOD will bless them for giving their hard earned money to frauds. But people do not stop to read that Jesus stated...
"It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God."
Name it and claim it? Well...it doesn't work that way.

 

[hillygirl]

Is God a God of faith? You bet!! But one thing people will have noticed is that in the Old Testament, there is much focus on wealth as a blessing from God. In the New, the focus turns to SPIRITUAL wealth - "the Kingdom of God is like a pearl..."; "God has given us every spiritual blessing..."; "seek first the kingdom of God...". Whenever physical wealth is dealt with in the New Testament, it is considered more of a curse than a blessing... didn't Jesus say sell all you have, and command His followers to essentially drop it all and follow Him? I'm not suggesting for us to necessarily do that, but I really feel that my own denomination in my city (I live 10 minutes away from Hillsong) has a lot to answer for.

Truth is Word Faith has tried to combine OT theology (now obsolete because of the New Covenant) and mixed it up with NT doctrine, and we have this doctrine. While it sounds nice and has a lot of people following it we must ensure we preach the UNADULTERATED WORD OF GOD. Also, our focus should always be the Cross. Instead, I find every time I visit Hillsong, it's all about the money. We must learn to tithe, granted but not to be made to feel guilty or to coax people into giving by claiming you'll get it back or whatever, because that's not what we are told by the Bible.

As for linking up with the Benny Hinns and Kenneth Copelands... well these guys have shredded the Word and unless there is repentance and a change in heart (and preaching!) then I will not pay any attention to them, the best way to learn about God and the Bible is to pray and READ THE BIBLE. Please brothers and sisters, I'm not here to bag anyone except warn you of those who seek to take our focus off the Lord. If I am wrong, I pray right now that this post will fall on deaf ears. Praise the Lord, and blessings everyone

Living Worship you have much better skill in describing the situation than I. I feel thats what I meant by the seduction of the theology. Thankyou for your post.

 

[Sharky]

I've been reading a book called the heavenly man recently. It talks about a man called brother yun who undergoes alot of persecution and torture in prison around china. He lives for God and doesn't succumb. It's really touched my heart and woke me up.

I admit there have been times when i would be stingy for God. HA! I look at my 10 dollar note and my 5 dollar note and choose the 5 dollar note. What a pathetic choice that i've chosen for God!

When we give, let's give and expect blessings back. Not nessesarily financial blessing or worldly blessing. But rather blessings from heaven. I look now and see how indeed i've been blessed by God and yet i'm still stingy. It's time for all of us to learn that we should give all we can give to God. I'm not talking about emptying our pockets or selling the house and living in the streets. But giving with a glad heart.

About hillsong, i've been under fire by other christians as well just because i go there and listen to their music. I hate to admit it but sometimes the church is asleep. Yes, hillsong can be asleep sometimes. So can many other churches in australia. Is that a bad thing? Oh yes of course it's a bad thing! The devil wants us to sleep so we don't help others out there who need Jesus.

But not always. Other time hillsong just comes alive like nothing before. People's lives are touched by Jesus, more come to Christ, the Holy Spirit moves powerfully. So no, hillsong isn't generally asleep.

Now this is what ticks me off.

About a year ago, more or less, some christians formed a band of critics to criticise hillsong. One particular 'christian' lady on the tv doco slandered like there was no end she even accused people falling down (at the church would be seen as the holy spirit moving) to be some weird nonsense. No, i don't hate her or any of the other critics, we all make mistakes, criticise and become opinionatedly self righteous at some point.

----

Here's my big gripe. There are christians out there who want to be the only ones saved. They want to make salvation sound so big only THEY can make it into heaven. They push rules into it, make a certain style to worship, a certain style to pray, eat for God, tithe etc. They purposely forget that salvation is for ALL and it is by Grace you are saved not by works so that you can't boast. These christians had better REPENT from that. I'm typing this in the Holy Spirit. This is NOT christianity if such rules come in!

 

[hillygirl]

Here's my big gripe. There are christians out there who want to be the only ones saved. They want to make salvation sound so big only THEY can make it into heaven. They push rules into it, make a certain style to worship, a certain style to pray, eat for God, tithe etc. They purposely forget that salvation is for ALL and it is by Grace you are saved not by works so that you can't boast. These christians had better REPENT from that. I'm typing this in the Holy Spirit. This is NOT christianity if such rules come in!

I know I am trying to have it both ways. I agree with you too Sharky and that's why I wrote -

On the whole I enjoy the enthusiasm and indeed the Vision to see people come to Christ though I am wary of the subtly and seduction of the theology. As with everything else in this world I believe like Paul in Phillipians that so long as Christ is preached whether from false motive or true then God will use it for his purposes and as in Thessalonians test everything.

Hope this helps people understand a little and help people recognise that in this fallen world nothing is perfect but that Gods purposes will be no matter what ones opinion is.

 

[Droobie]

Hey Sharky, why aren't you a mod in this forum?

 

[Bevlina]

As I once stated...I don't know enough about Hillsong to comment. So, I'll back out of this thread.

I do know one thing though. I have been abused terribly by some people of the WOF movement. And in such a way that I've been bruised for life.

 

[LivingWorship]

(Sharky: sorry my fault.)

 

[Sharky]

Sorry livingworship!

I pressed edit instead of quote and ended up replacing your whole post

Anyway in response to your post yes your correct except the last bit.

God is actually happier for 1 person to come back to him than 1000 trained desciples.

 

[LivingWorship]

O, um what I mean by that is disciples who are new converts too... I want to see these disciples who say a year or even a month ago were lost in sin, yes of course I get excited about new converts... maybe I should have said I'd be happier with 5 new converts who go on in discipleship and become effective witnesses for God than 100 new believers who just make up the numbers... make sense?

Yes you are correct God will rejoice over the salvation of one, all I'm saying is too many churches stop there and the whole easy believism thing... it's wrong because the command was not to just make converts but make disciples. God rejoices when the sinner is saved but don't forget His will is for him/her to prosper spiritually and to lead others to Christ, and they are most effective when discipled. Make sense? Cheers and God bless

 

[Sharky]

Ah now that makes sense.

 

[shout2thelord]

ok i think everyone knows how i feel about hillsong - the worship has really affect my christian life challenged me and inspired me to be closer to God in everyway. I have been blessed and encouraged by the church when i was there this summer too. The conference was amazing and i never experienced worship like it. I love the vision hillsong have. I felt more welcome there than at any small church ive been too. our church is quite small that im at here but it was 6months before anyone noticed me - at hillsong they knew when o walked in the door and went out of their way to help me. The teaching was perfect for the issues i was facing at the time and i really like the way they have praise reports before worship!

 

[Sharky]

Long time no see shout.

The college is great. I'm not currently doing it but it's really cool.

 

[shout2thelord]

i been here just hanging out in the greif support section but i think i managed to make myself feel worse. But i feel better now.
anyhow im quite sure i will go to hillsong at some point im just not sure whether to do pastoral counselling or pastoral leadership mmmmmmmmmmm
but judging by the conversation in christian teens and youth i dont think it is easy to be a woman pastor because so many people tell you you cant do it cos your a woman.
ps. ive read the heavenly man too and i bought it 4 a nominal christian friend and it really made her think about stuff. I have a chinese mate as well who is teachin me sum mandarin as well but im not so good my pronounciation is all wrong.

 

[Sharky]

Sorry to hear about that. It's a good idea to get into the pastoral part of things too because there are people who are going through the same things. Anyway we'll talk through pm.

 

[marduke]

yep thats all we use for our worship, i would like to do some planet shakers stuff though, as the hillsong stuff is getting very repetative, im by no means saying i dont like it, i just would like more variety, but our worship team doesnt want to do it....

 

[Wolflily]

Just a little aside - Sharky, I get a real kick out of your illustrations! Very amusing. (I don't mean that in a condescending way!)