Hillsong Pastor Refuses to Condemn Abortion

[HereIStand]

[Carl] Lentz, the pastor of the influential Hillsong Church in New York City, appeared on “The View” last week to talk about his ministry. And the panel – a group of pro-abortion women who love to bash pro-life advocates – asked Lentz about his views on abortion.
...
“So, it’s not a sin in your church to have an abortion?” pro-abortion host Joy Behar asked.

Lentz responded: “That’s the kind of conversation we would have finding out your story, where you’re from, what you believe. … I mean, God’s the judge. People have to live to their own convictions. That’s such a broad question, to me, I’m going higher. I want to sit with somebody and say, ‘What do you believe?’”

http://www.lifenews.com/2017/11/06/...rtion-is-sinful-live-to-your-own-convictions/

 

[JackRT]

I find his refusal to condemn outright both refreshing and wise.

 

[HereIStand]

I find his refusal to condemn outright both refreshing and wise.

Really? How so?

 

[JackRT]

Really? How so?

Among Christians abortion is a hot button issue and so much so that outright condemnation is frequent. In my opinion a great many moral and ethical decisions are not so black-and-white but are such a murky shade of gray that we should withhold judgment until we know the whole story. I believe that abortion should be legal, it should be safe, it should be available and it should be the woman’s informed choice but most important of all --- it should be rare.

 

[Ken Rank]

Really? How so?

I don't know if I go as far as Jack here... but generally, there are times when it is best to say less because of where those you are influencing currently are. For example, to a Joy Behar who probably has no idea about God at all... do you confront her and debate her over abortion when her coming to have some kind of relationship with God would take care of the abortion issue in due course?

 

[Ken Rank]

And for the record, I condemn abortion seeing it as murder. The DNA is written and the heart is beating usually by the time a woman even knows she is pregnant. We have halted construction over insects... we would throw a ticker-tape parade in NYC for the first germ we found on Mars... but we view a life with a beating heart and advanced DNA as being something we discard under certain circumstances? PERHAPS if mom's life is in jeopardy... but I have heard no reason for any other abortion at any time that makes sense to take life. I would rather side on being wrong and attempting to preserve life than to be wrong taking it or condoning the taking of it.

 

[HereIStand]

I don't know if I go as far as Jack here... but generally, there are times when it is best to say less because of where those you are influencing currently are. For example, to a Joy Behar who probably has no idea about God at all... do you confront her and debate her over abortion when her coming to have some kind of relationship with God would take care of the abortion issue in due course?

If he were making a direct Gospel appeal, then it would be permissible to leave abortion out of the conversation. He was asked about it directly though, and gave the impression that being pro-choice is acceptable evangelical belief. It's troubling to me when evangelical can be broadened to accommodate any cultural compromise.

 

[Smidlee]

If he were making a direct Gospel appeal, then it would be permissible to leave abortion out of the conversation. He was asked about it directly though, and gave the impression that being pro-choice is acceptable evangelical belief. It's troubling to me when evangelical can be broadened to accommodate any cultural compromise.

No surprise here since even in the OT we have many examples of paid preachers and prophets. Joel Osteen is a huge success because he refuses to stand and teach doctrine because he knows this will divide people just as Jesus did. A lot of people is saying "Jesus loves you" while sticking their middle finger up as they don't care if people are ultimately condemned.

 

[JackRT]

If he were making a direct Gospel appeal, then it would be permissible to leave abortion out of the conversation. He was asked about it directly though, and gave the impression that being pro-choice is acceptable evangelical belief. It's troubling to me when evangelical can be broadened to accommodate any cultural compromise.

Is this an evangelical thread? I never suggested that my views are evangelical. I regret that you got that impression.

 

[HereIStand]

Is this an evangelical thread? I never suggested that my views are evangelical. I regret that you got that impression.

No regrets needed. Hillsong is an evangelical church though. Their broadness is troublesome. It blurs the boundaries of evangelical distinctions.

 

[Ken Rank]

If he were making a direct Gospel appeal, then it would be permissible to leave abortion out of the conversation. He was asked about it directly though, and gave the impression that being pro-choice is acceptable evangelical belief. It's troubling to me when evangelical can be broadened to accommodate any cultural compromise.

Even when not... you have to speak to people on the level they are at, at the time you speak to them. That is what Paul was saying when he said to "be a gentile to a gentile and a Jew to a Jew." Remember, Paul once quoted a Greek Play in one of his letters... sometimes we have to speak in language and on the level of the one we are talking to.

That said, I don't agree that you go on the View and give abortion a pass... I think if it were me, I would have condemned it without sounding condemning... in other words, I could take my stand but do so in a manner that might leave open a door to communication when it comes to the atheist/agnostic hosts that don't know God well enough to know His will.

 

[HereIStand]

Even when not... you have to speak to people on the level they are at, at the time you speak to them. That is what Paul was saying when he said to "be a gentile to a gentile and a Jew to a Jew." Remember, Paul once quoted a Greek Play in one of his letters... sometimes we have to speak in language and on the level of the one we are talking to.

That said, I don't agree that you go on the View and give abortion a pass... I think if it were me, I would have condemned it without sounding condemning... in other words, I could take my stand but do so in a manner that might leave open a door to communication when it comes to the atheist/agnostic hosts that don't know God well enough to know His will.

Good thoughts. Thanks. My worry is that there is pressure on evangelicals to go with the flow, as it were. A desire for approval becomes an Achilles heel. Younger evangelicals seem especially vulnerable in this regard, which is why the Hillsong pastor (with young celebrities attending his church) might be looked to as a example of how to blend in with the mainstream.

 

[Ken Rank]

Good thoughts. Thanks. My worry is that there is pressure on evangelicals to go with the flow, as it were. A desire for approval becomes an Achilles heel. Younger evangelicals seem especially vulnerable in this regard, which is why the Hillsong pastor (with young celebrities attending his church) might be looked to as a example of how to blend in with the mainstream.

I hear ya and basically agree. I am evangelical but differently than most. I think the first thing we can do that will share God and what messiah did is not speak but live reflecting His character and values through our daily walk. After all, it is God who draws a man unto Himself (John 6:44). The Great Commission does not say to convert the world, it says to teach them. But one needs a willing student (disciple) that wants to learn. So, we have to speak and deal with others so that they hear and see God in our words and actions WITHOUT pushing too hard (before God has drawn them) or overloading them with too much at once. We all grow in progression... milk then solid food and eventually meat... and we need to recognize where one is in that walk. In the case of Beher... she isn't even drinking milk yet so you want to resonate with her but NOT compromise what you know is true. Not an easy task at times.

 

[brinny]

http://www.lifenews.com/2017/11/06/...rtion-is-sinful-live-to-your-own-convictions/

That's not the only thing he doesn't condemn. it might be worthwhile to research Carl Lentz and his church.

I will elaborate if you wish.

 

[Ken Rank]

That's not the only thing he doesn't condemn. it might be worthwhile to research Carl Lentz and his church.

I will elaborate if you wish.

There are, sadly, more and more who for whatever reason, do not reflect some obvious moral traits outlined in Scripture. PC'ism is alive and well in the church.

 

[brinny]

There are, sadly, more and more who for whatever reason, do not reflect some obvious moral traits outlined in Scripture. PC'ism is alive and well in the church.

Well it might be waaaay more than just PC, my friend.

 

[Phil 1:21]

Any dead fish can go with the current.

 

[brinny]

Any dead fish can go with the current.

LOL! Would you care to elaborate?

 

[HereIStand]

That's not the only thing he doesn't condemn. it might be worthwhile to research Carl Lentz and his church.

I will elaborate if you wish.

Sure. Elaborate here or send me a message.

 

[MoonlessNight]

Among Christians abortion is a hot button issue and so much so that outright condemnation is frequent. In my opinion a great many moral and ethical decisions are not so black-and-white but are such a murky shade of gray that we should withhold judgment until we know the whole story. I believe that abortion should be legal, it should be safe, it should be available and it should be the woman’s informed choice but most important of all --- it should be rare.

Imagine that a pastor said: "hatred of another race is a hot button issue in today's society, but we need to be aware that many issues are not so black-and-white as we might think. I think that if someone hates a certain race we need to have a conversation to figure out where he's coming from, and what his convictions are. I mean, God's the judge of this stuff. It's such a broad question to figure out whether hatred of another race is a sin; I'd rather sit down with someone who hates other races and say 'What do you believe?" In the end what really matters is if the person made an informed choice to hate other races."

How many hours do you think would go by until the pastor was completely eviscerated by his critics (perhaps even literally)?