Higher Things

[RadMan]

I so glad to see this site. I've been concerned about the "lost generation" of kids from high school graduation until they reappear in some Lutheran church some years later. From what I heard from a lady at church today it also stresses a conservative, confessional stance and down plays the happy clappy idea.

What makes Higher Things unique among Lutheran youth ministry organizations?
Higher Things is unique because its primary goal is to deliver the Gospel to Lutheran young people without either "dumbing down" our doctrine and theology or relying heavily on entertainment to keep their attention. Higher Things doesn't seek to create a "wow" factor. Our goal is simply to deliver Christ and Him crucified to young people, emphasizing the Theology of the Cross as opposed to a Theology of Glory. Higher Things believes sincerely that Lutheran youth actually want to be Lutheran. Therefore, we are intentionally catechetical in nature and unashamedly committed to centering our activities around Christ Jesus as He comes to us in His Word and Sacrament.
http://www.higherthings.org/faq.html

 

[DaRev]

Higher Things is great. It promotes orthodoxy in both teaching and practice. I'd love to get some of our youth here to attend their conferences so they can see what other orthodox Lutherans do.

Higher Things also publishes a magazine that can be used as Bible study resources. Good stuff.

 

[TCat]

How is Higher Things different than the National Youth Gathering?

 

[RadMan]

From what the lady said in church today the Youth gathering in Florida, I think it was Florida, was just the opposite of what I posted above. She said her kids were at the Florida rally and didn't care for it because it was too "contemporary". and too much entertainment and no emphasis on Law and Gospel. Pretty mature kids I'd say.

 

[DaRev]

The Higher Things conferences are smaller gatherings and are held every year, where the NYG is a huge event and is held every three years. The smaller events of the Higher Things conferences makes them a bit more intimate and allows the worship opportunities to be much more traditional and liturgical, which the massive size and venue of the NYG simply does not allow.
The Higher Things events also focus more on orthodoxy and teaching.

 

[TCat]

Thanks for the info. 54 of our kids went to Fl. this year to NYG, my son is looking forward to the next one. Since he loves contemporary worship I doubt he will ever be interested in Higher Things, he can't stand the litergy and traditional worship right now.

 

[RadMan]

The only thing I can figure about NYG is that they hear the contemporary worship there and maybe at the home church and then if they visit a non-denom, charismatic or pentecostal church they will think that what they hear there is alright to. I could be wrong but that's my feelings.

 

[DaRev]

he can't stand the litergy and traditional worship right now.

That's sad. The fact is that more and more young people favor the traditional liturgical worship than the happy-clappy stuff, which is great!

 

[ctay]

Seen some clips from the gathering, it was a lot different than when I went to one back in the 70's. It did look a lot more contempory.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

As long as the message isn't "contemporary", I think it's okay for people to like and appreciate a contemporary service.

Our youth rallies recently had some contemporary services that weren't well received by the youth. They wanted the old-school stuff.

 

[Zecryphon]

As long as the message isn't "contemporary", I think it's okay for people to like and appreciate a contemporary service.

Our youth rallies recently had some contemporary services that weren't well received by the youth. They wanted the old-school stuff.

Being the semi-cynical person I am, I have to wonder if the youth are really into the old school ways of doing things or are just opting for that as a way to rebel against their parents who may be attending contemporary, happy-clappy, services. I mean when the parents were into the old school hymns and stuff, I was bored out of my mind and wanted church to be fun. I figured a few electric guitars wouldn't kill them. Now here we are in the thick of praise bands and contemporary music which is all about us and not about Jesus or what He's done for us and the kids now want the old ways back.

 

[TCat]

I cannot for the life of me figure out why people wrongly assume that contemporary worship style, that being music that real people can actually sing to, must automatically be happy clappy or somehow take anything from worshiping Jesus and recieving His Grace.

Maybe the Lutherans just can't get it right in other places. I don't know having only ever been in 1 Lutheran church and having attended both styles of worship in only one place.

My husband was talking about the possibility of our moving out of this state for work. We agreed that if that were to happen we would not remain Lutheran unless we were blessed enough to find another church like the one we attend currently.

 

[DaRev]

I cannot for the life of me figure out why people wrongly assume that contemporary worship style, that being music that real people can actually sing to, must automatically be happy clappy or somehow take anything from worshiping Jesus and recieving His Grace.

The problem with contemporary "worship" is that it confuses the reason we gather in church in the first place. We go to church on Sunday morning with broken and contrite hearts, to lay before God our sinfulness, and to receive from Him the gifts of faith, forgiveness, and life through the means of grace. Contemporary worship places the emphasis on emotional "spiritual" feelings. It takes the importance of the means of grace away, making the atmosphere created by the "rock concert" venue the prime moving factor. It denies the Divine Service (the work of God) in the liturgy.

Maybe the Lutherans just can't get it right in other places. I don't know having only ever been in 1 Lutheran church and having attended both styles of worship in only one place.

If you've only ever been to one Lutheran church, how can you know if they've "gotten it right"?

My husband was talking about the possibility of our moving out of this state for work. We agreed that if that were to happen we would not remain Lutheran unless we were blessed enough to find another church like the one we attend currently.

So for you the "happy clappy" is more important than orthodox doctrine and teaching? That's exactly what's wrong with contemporary worship. You just proved the point with your statement.


Now, I have to qualify my statements above by admitting that I have never been to your church, so I don't know if what they do is close to orthodoxy. I agree that there is a right way to do the Divine Service using more contemporary styles. It's just that in the churches I have been in, I have yet to see one done right. One of the biggest problems is that the music that these churches use is theologically unsound. It originates in heterodox traditions which has a more anthropocentric (man-centered) focus. Conservatively speaking, about 95% of contemporary "praise and worship" music is doctrinally unsound.

 

[Zecryphon]

I cannot for the life of me figure out why people wrongly assume that contemporary worship style, that being music that real people can actually sing to, must automatically be happy clappy or somehow take anything from worshiping Jesus and recieving His Grace.

Maybe the Lutherans just can't get it right in other places. I don't know having only ever been in 1 Lutheran church and having attended both styles of worship in only one place.

My husband was talking about the possibility of our moving out of this state for work. We agreed that if that were to happen we would not remain Lutheran unless we were blessed enough to find another church like the one we attend currently.

"I cannot for the life of me figure out why people wrongly assume that contemporary worship style, that being music that real people can actually sing to, must automatically be happy clappy or somehow take anything from worshiping Jesus and recieving His Grace."

Well, in my case, and I know you probably were not speaking directly to me, I have looked at the lyrical content of what gets sung at most contemporary worship services I have attended and it's very focused on me and not so much on Jesus. A lot of it is also focused on what I've done as opposed to what Jesus has done. I have a Contemporary Christian music diagnostic tool, which in actuality is nothing more than Todd Wilken's Sermon Diagnostic Tool that he uses for sermons on Issues, Etc, that has been modified to fit Christian music. A lot of contemporary music does not fare well when examined in this way.

"Maybe the Lutherans just can't get it right in other places."

Huh?

"I don't know having only ever been in 1 Lutheran church and having attended both styles of worship in only one place."

How many other churches have you visited where you have observed contemporary worship? If it's only one, do you think you have had enough experience in this area to say that people are wrongly assuming anything about contemporary worship services and/ or music?

"My husband was talking about the possibility of our moving out of this state for work. We agreed that if that were to happen we would not remain Lutheran unless we were blessed enough to find another church like the one we attend currently."

Are you saying you would abandon your Lutheran beliefs? Or are you saying that you would attend something like a non-denom church and retain your Lutheran beliefs? I'm confused.

 

[DaSeminarian]

The problem with contemporary "worship" is that it confuses the reason we gather in church in the first place. We go to church on Sunday morning with broken and contrite hearts, to lay before God our sinfulness, and to receive from Him the gifts of faith, forgiveness, and life through the means of grace. Contemporary worship places the emphasis on emotional "spiritual" feelings. It takes the importance of the means of grace away, making the atmosphere created by the "rock concert" venue the prime moving factor. It denies the Divine Service (the work of God) in the liturgy.



If you've only ever been to one Lutheran church, how can you know if they've "gotten it right"?



So for you the "happy clappy" is more important than orthodox doctrine and teaching? That's exactly what's wrong with contemporary worship. You just proved the point with your statement.


Now, I have to qualify my statements above by admitting that I have never been to your church, so I don't know if what they do is close to orthodoxy. I agree that there is a right way to do the Divine Service using more contemporary styles. It's just that in the churches I have been in, I have yet to see one done right. One of the biggest problems is that the music that these churches use is theologically unsound. It originates in heterodox traditions which has a more anthropocentric (man-centered) focus. Conservatively speaking, about 95% of contemporary "praise and worship" music is doctrinally unsound.

AMEN! AMEN! AMEN.

Preach it brother!

 

[PreachersWife2004]

99.99999999% of the contemporary services I've been to have not "gotten it right".

The focus is on me and what I can do for God, not what God already did for me. The music, while aesthetic to the ears, really doesn't say much.

I'm not a huge fan of contemporary services. I've always loved the old school traditional liturgy and such, and contemporary services just seem to, I dunno, water it down or something.

But I honestly would never abandon my Lutheran teachings simply because I couldn't find a church that had the right traditional service. Of course, being married to a pastor makes it easy to have church at home, but that's what I would do if it came down to it.

 

[BreadAlone]

That's sad. The fact is that more and more young people favor the traditional liturgical worship than the happy-clappy stuff

I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one..

Maybe there are some kids who prefer the traditional services to the more contemporary ones, but I say with almost complete certainty that the vast majority of Lutheran youth do NOT prefer the liturgical worship services to the guitars and drums and no preaching services.

Ironically though, the denominations who don't have liturgy like ours wish they did have it..

I think that repeating the same old words every single weak gets a little old after a while.

I mean, I HATE repeating the liturgy we use every single week..but I love the Hymnal songs. I really dislike the music they play at our contemporary services..but I'm a small minority..and as for the other kids at my church..they're rarely if ever in attendance.

 

[DaRev]

I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one..

Maybe there are some kids who prefer the traditional services to the more contemporary ones, but I say with almost complete certainty that the vast majority of Lutheran youth do NOT prefer the liturgical worship services to the guitars and drums and no preaching services.

Ironically though, the denominations who don't have liturgy like ours wish they did have it..

I think that repeating the same old words every single weak gets a little old after a while.

I mean, I HATE repeating the liturgy we use every single week..but I love the Hymnal songs. I really dislike the music they play at our contemporary services..but I'm a small minority..and as for the other kids at my church..they're rarely if ever in attendance.

Well, studies have been done that disprove what you just said. That and my own personal experience back up my point. And it crosses denominational lines. The Southern Baptist Convention has in recent years moved to a more formal liturgical form of worship in order to keep their youth from leaving. One of the places they were going? The Lutheran Church.

 

[porterross]

I can say with all certainty that the young people I am familiar with prefer our liturgy. They say that "church should feel and sound like church and not like just listening to the radio."

That was stated to me verbatim by a 12 year old this weekend and all the other kids agreed.

 

[BreadAlone]

Yeah..that's kind of what I meant..people that aren't Lutherans LIKE the way we do things..but a lot of Lutheran kids, at least in our neck of the woods, don't..