High Day

[visionary]

It is mentioned in John 19:31 about a high day. My understanding at the moment is that because the Sabbath and the PAssover fall on the same day it is called a high day. Please confirm or educate, thank you

 

[Toney]

This is where the accomodating Christian calendar for Easter is most confusing, so I sympathize with your struggle. The High Day referred to in John is the First Day of the Feast, 15 Nissan (today), not the weekly Shabbat. The Last Supper, therefore, would have been held on the Day of Preparation, 13 Nissan, not a Passover Seder. This reckoning allows for three days and three nights in the tomb; Friday to Sunday does not, but serves another purpose.

(If I have this wrong, please correct me and I will edit this post.)

 

[simchat_torah]

Because the "high day" of Passover fluctuates, it is possible for the regular weekly sabbath and this day to land on the same 24 hour time period... however, it is actually a seperate holy day as Toney was gracious enough to point out.

 

[visionary]

This is where the accomodating Christian calendar for Easter is most confusing, so I sympathize with your struggle. The High Day referred to in John is the First Day of the Feast, 15 Nissan (today), not the weekly Shabbat. The Last Supper, therefore, would have been held on the Day of Preparation, 13 Nissan, not a Passover Seder. This reckoning allows for three days and three nights in the tomb; Friday to Sunday does not, but serves another purpose.

(If I have this wrong, please correct me and I will edit this post.)

I understand the evening to evening for a day. I understand the reckoning of any part of day to be counted as a day in reckoning. Ex: friday afternoon (part of a day with a few hours til sunset) to sunday morning (part of another day with a few hours after sunset) is considered three days.

We have Jesus dead on the cross, and at the same time as this death the lamb in the temple is to be slaughtered and could have escaped because the veil in rent from top to bottom in the temple, surely causing quite a stir.

There is the real passover lamb for the passover sacrifice. "that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day" was probably standard practice for all. It is the fact that this particular sabbath is a high day which makes it indicative of something more important, like the overlapping ceremonial sabbath with the weekly sabbath, to gives it such significance. So what you are saying is it is Feast of Unleaven Bread and the weekly sabbath???

 

[Toney]

I understand the evening to evening for a day. I understand the reckoning of any part of day to be counted as a day in reckoning. Ex: friday afternoon (part of a day with a few hours til sunset) to sunday morning (part of another day with a few hours after sunset) is considered three days.

As Keith Jackson would say, "Whoa, Nellie!" As Lyndon Johnson would say, "Come, let us reckon together."

If the Gospel said "three days," you would have a point. In fact, it says, "three days and three nights." There is no room for equivocation; it is not idiomatic. (See: Jonah 1:17, Mt 12:40, Lk 11:30, and have a look at 1 Samuel 30:12)

I just cannot comment on whether the lamb got away. The implications are truly mind-staggering.

 

[visionary]

As Keith Jackson would say, "Whoa, Nellie!" As Lyndon Johnson would say, "Come, let us reckon together."

If the Gospel said "three days," you would have a point. In fact, it says, "three days and three nights." There is no room for equivocation; it is not idiomatic. (See: Jonah 1:17, Mt 12:40, Lk 11:30, and have a look at 1 Samuel 30:12)

I just cannot comment on whether the lamb got away. The implications are truly mind-staggering.

I stand corrected on the three days and three nights....so...the Lord stinketh and saw corruption of the body like Lazareth who was also in the grave three days??? I am trying to rethink this here....Those that placed him in the grave and not prepared his body til after the sabbath when they found him not in the tomb waited three days??? I am not understanding..help me here

 

[Toney]

Don't get too exercised about Martha's opinion. That's all it was. Besides, the Omnipotent does not differentiate between little miracles and big miracles, both bodies were incorrupt.

The name 'Lazarus' means, G-d has helped.

/me says, stinketh not.

 

[Flavius665]

My only question is Who is Martha?

 

[Henaynei]

My only question is Who is Martha?

The sister of Lazarus.

 

[visionary]

Work the three days and three nights for me..details please.

 

[Henaynei]

Those who understand the finer nuances please allow me the grace of a simple explaination.... Todah

Dear Visionary,
Passover was on the Fifth Day of the week(known to us as Thursday) that year. The Jewish day STARTS and ENDS at sunset so....

• Yeshua died at the time the lambs (plural as thousands of lambs were killed in the Temple for Pesakh, every family needed to have one - it took hours) were killed for Passover. He was taken down and placed in the tomb before sunset. So....
  • Wednesday sunset to Thursday sunset (5th day/Thursday) - first Jewish night and day in the grave
  • Thursday sunset to Friday sunset (6th day/Friday) - second Jewish night and day in the grave
  • Friday sunset to Saturday sunset (7th day/Saturday)- third Jewish night and day in the grave

Thus Yeshua was in the grave 3 days and 3 nights, just as He said:
Mattityahu 12:40
"For as Yona was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

• Yeshua rose sometime after sunset on Saturday. Anytime after sunset on Saturday would be the first day of the week, we call it Sunday.

Everything in the bible works on G-d's ordained calendar, not ours
Helpful?

 

[visionary]

Now the First Fruits and its relationship to Jesus's death, please.

 

[visionary]

I would like to point out,

As a passover lamb, Jesus would have to die at the time of the passover sacrifice, and probably at the sacrifice of the High Priest's sacrificial lamb. Jesus never missed fully fulfilling prophecy.

 

[visionary]

Exo 12:3 Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house:
Exo 12:4 And if the household be too little for the lamb, let him and his neighbour next unto his house take it according to the number of the souls; every man according to his eating shall make your count for the lamb.
Exo 12:5 Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:

Interesting point here...Jesus separated himself at this point from the assembly, and the priests at this point had decided that He should be killed.

Exo 12:6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.
Exo 12:7 And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.

Strikingly comparative with the blood of Christ on the wood of the cross is the blood on the two side posts and on the upper door post where his head would be bleeding from the thorny crown.

Exo 12:8 And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.
Exo 12:9 Eat not of it raw, nor sodden at all with water, but roast with fire; his head with his legs, and with the purtenance thereof.
Exo 12:10 And ye shall let nothing of it remain until the morning; and that which remaineth of it until the morning ye shall burn with fire.
Exo 12:11 And thus shall ye eat it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it is the LORD'S passover.

As the fourteenth of the month of Abib was starting they killed the Passover Lamb.

Exo 12:18 In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even.
This starts the 15th day of Abib through the 21st day of Abib, Days of Unleavened Bread.


Lev 23:5 In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the Lord's passover.
Lev 23:6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.

I well imagine that since the death and ressurection of Jesus, for those intimate with the life of Jesus, following in His life's ministry, this was a lot of unleaven bread (three years worth of experiences and information that Jesus taught to digest). A feast of unleaven bread.

Lev 23:7 In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.
Lev 23:8 But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD seven days: in the seventh day is an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.

The fifteenth day is the Sabbath Day, the first day of unleavened bread. If the fifteenth fell on the weekly sabbath, that would make it a high day.


Lev 23:11 And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.
Lev 23:12 And ye shall offer that day when ye wave the sheaf an he lamb without blemish of the first year for a burnt offering unto the LORD.

This is the 16th of Abib. The Wave sheaf offering is the offering of the first fruits. This is Christ, the first born of many brethren. Remember Mary could not touch Him until He had been accepted as the offering at the throne of God the Father.

 

[visionary]

Those who understand the finer nuances please allow me the grace of a simple explaination.... Todah

Dear Visionary,
Passover was on the Fifth Day of the week(known to us as Thursday) that year. The Jewish day STARTS and ENDS at sunset so....

• Yeshua died at the time the lambs (plural as thousands of lambs were killed in the Temple for Pesakh, every family needed to have one - it took hours) were killed for Passover. He was taken down and placed in the tomb before sunset. So....
  • Wednesday sunset to Thursday sunset (5th day/Thursday) - first Jewish night and day in the grave
  • Thursday sunset to Friday sunset (6th day/Friday) - second Jewish night and day in the grave
  • Friday sunset to Saturday sunset (7th day/Saturday)- third Jewish night and day in the grave

Thus Yeshua was in the grave 3 days and 3 nights, just as He said:
Mattityahu 12:40
"For as Yona was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

• Yeshua rose sometime after sunset on Saturday. Anytime after sunset on Saturday would be the first day of the week, we call it Sunday.

Everything in the bible works on G-d's ordained calendar, not ours
Helpful?

Ok...He was put in the grave thursday......what was the friday....for Jesus rested on the sabbath as in rested in the grave....on friday and saturday...I can understand sabbath rest it is the friday part that causes confusion.

Oh, see this is what happens when you have never partaken of the feasts themselves and therefore have a difficult time puttin the feast and the events of Jesus's life together.

 

[Henaynei]

Ok...He was put in the grave thursday......what was the friday....for Jesus rested on the sabbath as in rested in the grave....on friday and saturday...I can understand sabbath rest it is the friday part that causes confusion.

Oh, see this is what happens when you have never partaken of the feasts themselves and therefore have a difficult time puttin the feast and the events of Jesus's life together.

He was put in the grave just before Thursday by Jewish reckoning, but it was Wednesday evening by yours (today's)

There was a teaching in Jewish tradition that no body could be raised from the dead after the 3rd day - that the spirit departs irrevocably after the third day. Numerous traditions around Jewish burial have this as their backdrop. If you will notice Lazarus was raised ON the 3rd day, not after the 3rd day.

Yeshua was a full 3 days AND nights in the ground in order to fulfill another of the Messianic distinctives - ONLY G-d can raise one who has been dead more than 3 days. This is why Yeshua said the sign would be "like Yona" and NOT " like Lazarus."

(Don't get distracted by the fact that Yeshua is G-d and that He raised Lazarus and could have raised him after the three days. At issue is that being raised AFTER 3 days had NEVER happened and was understood to be a Messianic miracle.)


b'Shalom
from she who is expert in making the waters muddier.....

 

[visionary]

You know how it is when someone is working it out in their own mind....you have to go over it one more time to make sure that you have it right.

Here goes......

Passover was on the Fifth Day of the week(known to us as Thursday) that year. The Jewish day STARTS and ENDS at sunset so.... Jesus died at the time the lambs were killed for Passover. He was taken down and placed in the tomb before sunset.... This makes wednesday preparation for the passover when the upper room (last supper) passover meal was eaten. Wednesday night Jesus was kissed by Judas, taken to jail, beaten and all this before thursday morning. By noon Jesus is heading out to the cross and by three Jesus is dead. Dead and buried before sunset.
Wednesday sunset to Thursday sunset (5th day/Thursday) - first night and day in the grave. The Passover

As the fourteenth of the month of Abib was starting they killed the Passover Lamb.

Exo 12:6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.
Exo 12:7 And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.

Strikingly comparative with the blood of Christ on the wood of the cross is the blood on the two side posts and on the upper door post where his head would be bleeding from the thorny crown.

Exo 12:18 In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even. (seven days)

This starts the 15th day of Abib through the 21st day of Abib, Days of Unleavened Bread.

Lev 23:6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.

I well imagine that since the death and ressurection of Jesus, for those intimate with the life of Jesus, following in His life's ministry, this was a lot of unleaven bread (three years worth of experiences and information that Jesus taught to digest). A feast of unleaven bread.

Lev 23:7 In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.
Lev 23:8 But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD seven days: in the seventh day is an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.

Thursday sunset to Friday sunset (6th day/Friday) - second night and day in the grave Unleaven Bread week starts.

Friday sunset to Saturday sunset (7th day/Saturday)- third night and day in the grave The weekly sabbath

Lev 23:11 And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.
Lev 23:12 And ye shall offer that day when ye wave the sheaf an he lamb without blemish of the first year for a burnt offering unto the LORD.

This is the 16th of Abib. The Wave sheaf offering is the offering of the first fruits. This is Christ, the first born of many brethren. Remember Mary could not touch Him until He had been accepted as the offering at the throne of God the Father.

Thus Jesus was in the grave 3 days and 3 nights, just as He said:

"For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."
Jesus rose sometime after sunset on Saturday. Anytime after sunset on Saturday would be the first day of the week, we call it Sunday.

 

[Henaynei]

you're close - yes, Thursday was Passover that year - but Thursday STARTED at sundown WEDNESDAY - THAT was when the lambs were being killed - so He was in the ground Wednseday night (jewishly Thursday).

The Day of Preparation was Tuesday that year - the meal He had with His disciples was on Tuesday evening and they all went to the Garden Tueasdy evening.

He was betrayed Tuesday evening and taken illegally to the leaders of the Sanhedrin in the dark of the night on Tuesday (jewishly Wednesday).

He was presented to Pilate Wednesday during the morning, over to Herod and back to Pilate, presented to the crowds and scourged Wednesday early afternoon.

He was nailed to the stake Wednesday afternoon as the sacrifice of the Passover lambs was happening in the Temple.

He died, was removed from the execution and placed in the ground just before sunset Wednesday afternoon (jewishly Thursday).

He was in the ground 3 full days and 3 full nights - and rose sometime after sunset on Saturday (jewishly Sunday).

b'shalom
still slinging mud!! DUCK!!

I'm going to try to post a grid I made to help - have no idea what the program on CF will do to it

 

[Henaynei]

Alriiiighty THAT didn't work so lets get smarter than the computer and try this..... see attachment

 

[Henaynei]

Ok - someone want to explain to me why the attachment shows on my edit view but not here?? HUH!! grrrrr


Visionary et al -- IF anyone wants to view my effort to draw a format to make understanding this a bit easier - PM me your email addy and I'll email it to you