Heretics / Non-Trinitarians

[Serapha]

Hi there...

ZeOvadhYahu:~~>>

... If the Trinity did stem from Ancient Judaism then the next obvious question is which Sect of Ancient Judaism did it start and come from?
What were there teachings in regard to this?
What was the source of such teachings?
Which Book/Books did they use for such teachings?

The Natorean Essenes of today believe in a trinity....


and the basis for that belief....


well you will have search that for yourself because the link cannot be posted here since it isn't supportive of the standard Doctrine of the Trinity...

You might try posting a search for "Order of the Nazorean Essenes" and read the history as well as the available teachings and their information that was found among the Dead Sea Scrolls.



The Nazorean trinity is based upon god and goddess worship
1) Pera (Deep, or Fruit) by the Ancient Nazoreans.
2) Dum (Silence) or Hiya (Life) by the Ancient Nazoreans.
3) Mana (Mind) by the Ancient Nazoreans. (this is Logos)





Now, you have a Jewish sect that taught from the first century of some sort of trinity.



Now... can we move on?





~serapha~

 

[Serapha]

Hi there!



Oh, let's get on a different subject for a while..


"bump"


~serapha~

 

[True Believer]

All you have to do is start a new thread and see who joins :^)
Take Care , TB

 

[Serapha]

All you have to do is start a new thread and see who joins :^)
Take Care , TB

<grin>


I'm not a good "starter".... I finish strong.


~serapha~

 

[ZeOvadhYahu]

Hi there...







The Natorean Essenes of today believe in a trinity....


and the basis for that belief....


well you will have search that for yourself because the link cannot be posted here since it isn't supportive of the standard Doctrine of the Trinity...

You might try posting a search for "Order of the Nazorean Essenes" and read the history as well as the available teachings and their information that was found among the Dead Sea Scrolls.



The Nazorean trinity is based upon god and goddess worship
1) Pera (Deep, or Fruit) by the Ancient Nazoreans.
2) Dum (Silence) or Hiya (Life) by the Ancient Nazoreans.
3) Mana (Mind) by the Ancient Nazoreans. (this is Logos)





Now, you have a Jewish sect that taught from the first century of some sort of trinity.



Now... can we move on?





~serapha~

ZeOvadhYahu:~~>> Would you be willing to share with us the Books which they used to come up with such a Tri-nity ?

Did they view there os-called Tri-nity as that of "Three Individual Persons" ?

When you say, "(This is the Logos)." Could you provide more clarity for the readers of this thread? Does Logos to them mean "The Second Person" of their Tri-nity? Was their "Logos" a "Person" at all? How did the know the Greek word "Logos?"

Didn't the Nazoreans actually refer to what you would call the Son as "Mana?"

Didn't the "Mana" also have a female companion which they called "D'muta ?"

Didn't they teach that when the Only-Begotten perceived why he had been emitted, he too emitted Logos and Life, since he was the father of all to come after him, and was the beginning of the whole Pleroma. In Trinitarian Terms the "Only Begotten was Jesus (The Logos). Yet, in the above we notice that they taught that their Only Begotten was emitted from something and in turn emitted the LOGOS. This is certainly not paralleling the Trinitarians own Trinity of today is it?

Yes, their Only Begotten emitted another....who? The Logos! Yes, and even more intriguing is the fact that there were also emitted Ten Aeons which represented to them Five doubled Aeons. This included the Aeon and his spouse making Ten. They were viewed as being from the Living Spirit. I am always amazed at how many who have no clue at all about these teachings will try and twist them into some type of Trinity related their won version of a Trinity. As can be seen, their teachings have nothing in common with the Trinity of the ANF, or the Modern Trinity held by some today. To be honest the Nazoreans held to a mystical triple Trinity not a singular Tri-nity. So, the question remains, If the Trinity held by some today stemmed from the Gnostics or even the Mysticism teachings, Why do you not hold to a Triple Mysticism Trinity type view today?

This is an interesting discussion and I am certainly willing to get into it with you Serapha. I somehow missed this thread when you posted your reply here. I am here now though.

Did you also know that they held to a belief that there where Five earths? Oh well, we can discuss all of this if you like.

Which Books of Mysticism did they teach their beliefs from Serapha? I have Ha Sefer Zohar and also Ha Sefer Yetzirah. Perhaps we can use them as we dive into the Occultic Mysticism thoughts.

With interest I await your reply to my questions,
Zeh'OvadhYahu

 

[Serapha]

ZeOvadhYahu:~~>> Would you be willing to share with us the Books which they used to come up with such a Tri-nity ?

Did they view there os-called Tri-nity as that of "Three Individual Persons" ?

When you say, "(This is the Logos)." Could you provide more clarity for the readers of this thread? Does Logos to them mean "The Second Person" of their Tri-nity? Was their "Logos" a "Person" at all? How did the know the Greek word "Logos?"

Didn't the Nazoreans actually refer to what you would call the Son as "Mana?"

Didn't the "Mana" also have a female companion which they called "D'muta ?"

Didn't they teach that when the Only-Begotten perceived why he had been emitted, he too emitted Logos and Life, since he was the father of all to come after him, and was the beginning of the whole Pleroma. In Trinitarian Terms the "Only Begotten was Jesus (The Logos). Yet, in the above we notice that they taught that their Only Begotten was emitted from something and in turn emitted the LOGOS. This is certainly not paralleling the Trinitarians own Trinity of today is it?

Yes, their Only Begotten emitted another....who? The Logos! Yes, and even more intriguing is the fact that there were also emitted Ten Aeons which represented to them Five doubled Aeons. This included the Aeon and his spouse making Ten. They were viewed as being from the Living Spirit. I am always amazed at how many who have no clue at all about these teachings will try and twist them into some type of Trinity related their won version of a Trinity. As can be seen, their teachings have nothing in common with the Trinity of the ANF, or the Modern Trinity held by some today. To be honest the Nazoreans held to a mystical triple Trinity not a singular Tri-nity. So, the question remains, If the Trinity held by some today stemmed from the Gnostics or even the Mysticism teachings, Why do you not hold to a Triple Mysticism Trinity type view today?

This is an interesting discussion and I am certainly willing to get into it with you Serapha. I somehow missed this thread when you posted your reply here. I am here now though.

Did you also know that they held to a belief that there where Five earths? Oh well, we can discuss all of this if you like.

Which Books of Mysticism did they teach their beliefs from Serapha? I have Ha Sefer Zohar and also Ha Sefer Yetzirah. Perhaps we can use them as we dive into the Occultic Mysticism thoughts.

With interest I await your reply to my questions,
Zeh'OvadhYahu

Hi there!




Do I want to discuss a subject with someone who continuously moves the goalpost in their favor?


"no"

 

[Serapha]

Hi there...






.....Now, you have a Jewish sect that taught from the first century of some sort of trinity.



Now... can we move on?





~serapha~

The important statement was overlooked in the zeal to blast, yet again, anything that moves.


~serapha~

 

[ZeOvadhYahu]

The important statement was overlooked in the zeal to blast, yet again, anything that moves.


~serapha~

Well actually, It was you that tried to keep this ball a roll'n wasn't it? Sure it was! I had let this thread go and you posted last didn't you? With that said Serapha please don't exclaim that because I replied to your post that I "Overlooked in the zeal to blast, yet again, anything that moves." If you did not want anyone to comment on your post then why didn't you just say?

The most important thing that you fail to acknowledge is that the Early Church Fathers (Your fathers) were against the very beliefs held by this group. Another Important factor for those who are "Christians" is that the above beliefs are based on what men came up with, not what is inpired and written in the Literal Bible itself. That is why Books such as Ha Sefer Bahir, Ha Sefer Zohar, & Ha Sefer Yetzirah were used in place of the Bible. To teach these Occultic Mysticisms !

I guess you really didn't wish to "discuss" this subject at all, you simply wanted only the last word. That's Fine by me.

Todah Rabbah Lach,
Zeh'OvadhYahu

 

[Serapha]

Well actually, It was you that tried to keep this ball a roll'n wasn't it? Sure it was! I had let this thread go and you posted last didn't you? With that said Serapha please don't exclaim that because I replied to your post that I "Overlooked in the zeal to blast, yet again, anything that moves." If you did not want anyone to comment on your post then why didn't you just say?


......I guess you really didn't wish to "discuss" this subject at all, you simply wanted only the last word. That's Fine by me.

Todah Rabbah Lach,
Zeh'OvadhYahu

Hi there!



And I am holding you to your word....

I guess you really didn't wish to "discuss" this subject at all, you simply wanted only the last word. That's Fine by me.

Now... since you are giving me the "last word"... here is it....

You asked for information....

ZeOvadhYahu:~~>>

... If the Trinity did stem from Ancient Judaism then the next obvious question is which Sect of Ancient Judaism did it start and come from?
What were there teachings in regard to this?
What was the source of such teachings?
Which Book/Books did they use for such teachings?

I provided answer to the demanded questions in the posting about the Natorrean Essenes....

but answering questions isn't sufficient because the goalpost is then moved.... yet again...


And somehow, you think that I am the problem... Because I don't move when the goalpost is moved?


I don't have to move just because the goal post is moved.... I didn't ask for the goal post to be moved.

Remember.... I get the last word.... here it is...

Posting in oversized, bold-faced lettering is in the same class as

YELLING!



and it creates disharmony in a posting and it is offensive to the "eye" that must endure the internet discourtesy.



~serapha~

 

[LightBearer]

Posting in oversized, bold-faced lettering is in the same class as

YELLING!



and it creates disharmony in a posting and it is offensive to the "eye" that must endure the internet discourtesy.



~serapha

I dont find it offensive in the slightest.

I would imagine too that for those with less than perfect vision it can be a plus.


Regards,

LB

 

[D.W.]

Hi,

I am new here, and I want to know a little bit about the people here. The first thing I wanted to know is if I am going to be overwhelmingly out-numbered in here, as far as the subject of Christ's nature is.

I am non-trinitarian, and if the non-trintarians aboard could only say something to let me know that they are non-trinitarians, that would be good enough.

Thank you all!
Blessings!

Shalom Karaite,

I too am new here and finding out about forum rules.
I am non trinitarian and not a Hairy-Tic though some would disagree.
I find your name interesting, is it in relation to your beliefs.

G-d Bless,
Dan

 

[olivia54]

Jehovah's Christian Witnesses are non-trinitarian also. Do not expect a big welcome from the trinitarians, even though this is called the unorthodox forum! But I would like to give you a big welcome! Will be looking forward to hearing more from you.

Olivia54

 

[olivia54]

Shalom D.W.

Just noticed you were new also. We are very happy to have you join us. Hope we will be hearing more from you . As I said before, Jehovah's Christian Witnesses are also non-trinitarian. Already we have something in common.

Olivia54

 

[Peterson]

Hey Olivia54,
Be glad for what reception you get here. In the old days, those who didn't accept the traditional doctrine of the trinity were hunted down, tortured and burned at the stake. Here, at least, you get a chance to express your views within certain limitations.

 

[olivia54]

I agree, it's a shame there were people like that, who hunted down others to persecute and murder, because they did not agree with their doctrines.

Funny, I don't recall Jesus or the Apostles hunting down, persecuting or murdering anyone, do you? Instead, Jesus instructed his beloved Apostles and Disciples to love one another, and to love their enemy as themselves. Luke 6:27, Luke 6:35, Matthew 5:43,44,45

RSV) Matthew 5:43 "You have heard that it was said, "You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy
44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.

(GodsWord) Matthew 5:43 "You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor, and hate your enemy.'
44 "But I tell you this: Love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you."
45 In this way you show that you are children of your Father in heaven. He makes his sun rise on people whether they are good or evil. He lets rain fall on them whether they are just or unjust.

Olivia54

 

[D.W.]

Shalom Olivia54,

Thank you for the welcome. I plan to post more here and I am sure that you will not be in agreement with everything that I believe in.

G-d Bless,
Dan

 

[ZeOvadhYahu]

Shalom Karaite,

I too am new here and finding out about forum rules.
I am non trinitarian and not a Hairy-Tic though some would disagree.
I find your name interesting, is it in relation to your beliefs.

G-d Bless,
Dan

ZeOvadhYahu:~~>> Shalom Ha Karaite! Hello to you also D.W!

I am also fairly new here to this discussion community. As a non-Trinitarian I welcome you with open arms and a smile!

Come on in here and join us when your ready. We would love to have you. There are some Trinitarians here and also some non-trinitarians here. I am sure you will learn who is who as you begin to post here.

Looking forward to learning more about you and seeing you post more among us.

Na'im l'hakir otcha,
Zeh'OvadhYahu

 

[True Believer]

I dont find it offensive in the slightest.

I would imagine too that for those with less than perfect vision it can be a plus.


Regards,

LB

You have a point here on the vision. For some odd reason I have a hard time distinguishing standard print on the computer and now have to wear reading glasses which are a pain be cause when you look from one thing to another you get vision shock. I reply I think in the same size as the post I quote but am not sure. I know I don't change any settings but add bold or underline to see something easier. I also do it so my reply is bolder than what I am replying to so I can see the distinction between the two. The words blurr more on plain text than on bold. I apologize if I offended anyone but these are my reasons for doing it.

Agape' to All, TB

 

[True Believer]

I would also like to welcome the other new Non Trinitarians as I also do not agree with that teaching. Glad to have you aboard!
Agape', TB