• The General Mental Health Forum is now a Read Only Forum. As we had two large areas making it difficult for many to find, we decided to combine the Mental Health & the Recovery sections of the forum into Mental Health & Recovery as a whole. Physical Health still remains as it's own area within the entire Recovery area.

    If you are having struggles, need support in a particular area that you aren't finding a specific recovery area forum, you may find the General Struggles forum a great place to post. Any any that is related to emotions, self-esteem, insomnia, anger, relationship dynamics due to mental health and recovery and other issues that don't fit better in another forum would be examples of topics that might go there.

    If you have spiritual issues related to a mental health and recovery issue, please use the Recovery Related Spiritual Advice forum. This forum is designed to be like Christian Advice, only for recovery type of issues. Recovery being like a family in many ways, allows us to support one another together. May you be blessed today and each day.

    Kristen.NewCreation and FreeinChrist

  • Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Here's my story.

Haakon

Active Member
Apr 25, 2007
26
4
Las Vegas, Nevada.
✟15,162.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Single
I posted this on a different forum (that is, at another website) but I'm too much of a newbie to post URLs. So I must copy/paste.

I wrote this 9 days ago and was quite distraught when I did, to say the least. I'm mellow now and am on the road to recovery, but the concerns are still at the forefront of my current existence.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Faith is easy when you have no choice...

...but it's like being under an iron fist when you find yourself wishing that you did.

What does that mean? I've seen too much to disbelieve. It would be like trying to convince myself the earth is flat. And I've tried! And over and over again, I have found myself wishing that I could. If I walked away, I could have a life of liberty, pursuing happiness out there in the wide, wide world. But I can't. I've tried. And I can't.

If you want to believe, then being incapable of doubt is a place of luxury. I have distant memories as to what that's like. But if you don't feel like believing anymore, if you desire to go off and live your own life, leaving it all behind... the term 'cognitive dissonance' doesn't even begin to describe it. Take the word 'torn' and all that it signifies in this context, and magnify it dozens of times over.

It's like being backed into a corner... all the time.

So with all that said, allow me to tell my story.

I am a 28 year old man. I currently reside in Las Vegas, Nevada (yes, people actually do live here) and hope to someday return to my native home of California. It's been pretty rough living here, but things weren't so great before I came, either.

My brother and I were raised more-or-less agnostic. The existence and general goodness (as opposed to badness) of God were halfheartedly acknowledged on sporadic occasion, but that made about as much difference as the fact that Beatrix is the Queen of Holland. My parents are good people, though.

I was saved at the age of 15 while in the throes of severe mental illness. Today the only diagnosis that still stands - or that has any discernible consequences - is Asperger's Syndrome, which is a mild form of autism. God healed me of what the shrinks understood to be "childhood schizophrenia" just before I turned seventeen.

Well, I think by the time I was 25 or so, things really started to suck for me in a lot of ways. There are many horrible nightmare experiences that would make elite special operations troopers run screaming into the night in their terror that I have been subjected to over and over again throughout my life... things that most of you in here would refuse to believe... things that Hollywood couldn't come up with. But that's not what's chapping my hide... because a man can get used to just about anything. But there's one thing I just can't get used to, and that has caused me to become the way that I am: woman trouble.

As a teenager I never dated anybody in the youth group I was inducted into because I was too far behind the curve to learn or use the necessary social skills. Well, that, and there weren't very many date-able girls. That youth group (back in my home area of Los Angeles) was a rare phenomenon... maybe 10% of the kids there were church kids, and attendance on a normal Wednesday could be as high as 200 (and it was an otherwise small church). Many of us were drug addicts, gang members, street kids, you-name-it. And as such, even if I'd of had the skills, there were very few girls I could have dated. Kids were always going in and out of there... you'd see some people once and never again, and then twenty more would show up out of nowhere and stay for a bit. It could be very chaotic. And of those that were saved, many were struggling (to put it gently). I knew even then that it would be unwise to date most of them. I had my share of crushes that went nowhere, of course.

Well, I almost dated one girl when I was 18 and she was 15. She all but asked me out, but I chickened out. She would have been my first girlfriend. Still, I went on to form a very deep attachment that I would pay for dearly. Well, she was on-and-off hard drugs (roller coaster ride), starting to develop symptoms of schizophrenia (her mother had it), always seemed to be inches from being turned out onto the street, and at one point she attempted suicide. Her relationship with God also seemed to change with the wind. And you know... I think all the things that happened to her hurt me more than they hurt her. That took a lot out of me.

Second time out it was an internet thing. I met her through a Christian chatroom. By day three of intensive chatting, she was claiming to be madly in love with me. Well, here's the irony. For the first and only time in my life, after what seemed like a lifetime of heartache and desperation, I finally caved in one night and said "God, if I don't ever end up with anybody, if you don't have nobody for me... I guess I'll be alright with You." And suddenly, unexpectedly, I was at peace. I was content. It didn't seem natural. I expected only more misery and disappointment, and could only hope that the desire would diminish and wither over time.

Literally, the very next day, this girl that I'd been talking to for all of three days, who lived up in northern California, professed her undying love. Together with the fact that she looked real hot in her picture, and my figuring that it couldn't possibly be a coincidence made me go "woohoo!!! After all these years, God is finally rewarding me with a woman!!! How 'bout dat!?"

If I wouldn't have been suppressing my instincts and better judgment, I would have realized that it was more along the lines of a terrible test. This chick turned out to be nuts. She told me she had AIDS and had but a few years to live. I freaked out and ran like my backside was on fire, but then three days later I came back and said something along the lines of "you don't deserve to be abandoned because of that... and maybe I'll end up being the one who holds your hand on your death bed." A kind heart, a rigid and towering sense of ethics (common in people with Asperger's Syndrome), and a lifetime of crushing desperation will do that to you.

Well, shortly after I went up to stay at her house for a week, it hit the fan. She embezzled a bunch of money and disappeared, and when they found her she was shacked up with some girl, having gone back to lesbianism. Then I found out that she lied about having AIDS just to mess with me, as well as having lied about just about everything else. This all went down during the week of 9/11. So while I was having my heart stomped on by a steel-plated knightly riding boot, I also had to deal with the fact that the 21st century had just begun with a bang and that World War III could very well be just around the corner, with me as one of its billion or so combatants due to the biggest draft since 1942. Not fun.

Even after all that, I offered to take her back. She thought about it a bit and said no, with her mother as the intermediary. I got the picture and took off... an amazing amount of damage done.

Two long lonely years later I dated again. The next one was the least screwed up... on the surface. She was the middle child and oldest daughter of the senior pastor at the church I was going to. Well, once I started dating her, I left my old church (had been looking for a reason for a while) to attend hers, which was three freeways away in another part of the city. (That's L.A. for you.) It lasted about a month. Things were going great the first half of that month... I was flying high as a kite, and it felt like I was finally gonna get a break.

Then it got weird. The communication shut down, and the more distant she got, the more frantic and desperate I got. Obsession (another Asperger's trait) overtook me to the point that I was nearly barfing, day-in and day-out. After three days of cloistering myself away from all human contact and sleeping 14 hours a day (I normally sleep 6) I reached the breaking point and decided to end it. So I fired up the computer to type up a letter, and lo and behold, she had beaten me to the punch via e-mail.

It never got to the point where we were boyfriend/girlfriend (according to her), but if it would have, we would have been each others' firsts. I think she tried to date some guy when she was in high school but it was similarly underdeveloped. I was about 23 or 24 at the time; it was the year 2003. I recently heard that she's dated a whole lot of nobody ever since, and is retreating ever further inward into her own little world, and it doesn't surprise me. I've got issues... she's got issues... issues, issues, issues.

There was one sentence in that e-mail... if she would've left it out, I would've been juuuuuuuust fine. It said "but maybe we'll get back together in the future." So in my mind, the word "over" was superseded by the word "hiatus." I figured... all I had to do was play my cards right, and I'd get her back. She strung me along for the next year or so, because I was still at that church and still saw her at least once a week, oftentimes more. Well, it's not so much that she strung me along... it's that she couldn't bring herself to tell me the truth. (The truth is, she didn't mean those words at all, and just kinda threw that half-baked clause in to soften the impact.) All she could do was treat me with ever more nastiness and bitterness, hoping that I would eventually get the picture.

Well, stupid and stubborn me... desperate and clingy... it only made me try harder. Which made her amp it up even more. Things were getting very ugly and I would daresay that it (and a large interconnected plethora of related events, dynamics, etc.) nearly caused our young adults group (and possibly by extension, the entire church; it was a very twisted web that was being woven) to go down like the Titanic. That was the worst two years of my life, because after she told me the truth, very bad things (heck, worse things) continued to happen, which was why it wasn't just one year of madness but two. (A two-fer-one special!) I can't even begin to go into detail as to all that went down, and you can already tell I don't hold much of anything back. It was the worst experience of my entire life, and it dragged on for two whole years.

In the span of that two years, I expended everything I had to keep our group and that church from blowing apart. That church would have died much, much sooner than it did if it weren't for me, my brother, and another guy who was capable (whether he wanted to be or not) of seeing what was going on. I think I'm pretty good at what I do... under normal circumstances. My brother and I made for quite a team, and the other guy could be useful whenever his heart was in it. But throw matters of the heart into the mix, emotions and whatnot... well, that job (as abstractly and vaguely as I can put it, it entails the defending of the fortress) already takes enough of a toll on anybody 'lucky' enough to get collared with it. So... to make an already beyond harrowing situation much, much worse....

Parts of me got all crooked, and rife with painfully glaring, dissonant contradiction. I came to hate her with a flaming passion, and even more so her psycho uber-manipulative best friend who was trying to ruin my life, her life, and the lives of others. It must have been what daytime television is like in the 5th or 6th circle of hell. The experience broke me. Almost literally, parts were falling off. I had to go into behavioral cognitive therapy because, literally, I was experiencing cognitive malfunction. It worked to a satisfactory degree, I can say. But you know the one thing that helped the most in moving past all that as much as I could? Moving to Vegas, baby! And getting away from those people. That was in August of 2005. I've been here in Sin City ever since.

And then one year later I was on the pathway to becoming a raging drunk, avoiding church and associating it with only pain and disappointment, and feeling more lonely and desperate and bitter than ever. An all too familiar situation here in Sodom on the Sand. But still, I could not slip away... I'd seen too much, knew too much, had been shown too much....

I tried dating this foxy 40 year old woman (a "cougar", as such a creature is often referred to as). Came real close to losing my virginity. All I had to do was clean my apartment up a bit and buy condoms, and boy howdy was I debating it... and while I was debating it, she was practically demanding it. But then she started saying all this stuff about me being husband #3 and the father of kid #2, so I switched to level 3 emergency alert status and initiated Operation Cut-and-Run.

There was this other time where I almost lost my virginity to a heavily tattooed and notoriously psychotic girl in the bathroom of the bar across the street from my pad... were it not for the bartender intervening and causing the romantic moment to evaporate. That's also the place where I met the older woman.

The last time I went to that bar (last Thursday) I was solicited by a high-dollar escort (I had fun annoying her with my imperviousness to her charms) after narrowly averting a hostile challenge from an ex-convict who was twice my size. Man, I hate that place. I used to be a regular but then I realized how much the place sucks, even compared to all the other open-24-hours lowlife-filled video poker-featuring Vegas neighborhood dives. I was there last Thursday because I felt I needed a few whiskeys to help temporarily deal with the situation that is going to cap off this excessively long introductory post of mine.

So now for the finale... the event in a series of events that leads me to this here website.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LoG

Haakon

Active Member
Apr 25, 2007
26
4
Las Vegas, Nevada.
✟15,162.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Single
The quiet desperation of involuntary celibacy (it refers not just to sex, but dating and romance in general!) caused me to scour the web looking for answers, and I eventually stumbled upon a relevant support group. That's how I met her.

I went back to L.A. for a month in winter just to stretch my legs for a bit. Her and I met up just to hang out. Our last time out in that month, the very day before I was to head back to Vegas, she kissed me. It was wonderful. But then I had to go back.

We talked it out over the phone. I called her a few times a week. Well, in February, I confessed as to my "religious beliefs" and their dictates about sex, basically telling her that I couldn't be in a romantic relationship with her because of that, and that I needed to get right with God. Well, she got kind of weird about it (understandably so) so I waffled on it. We kept talking.

I went back to L.A. for a week in March just to see her. We fell desperately, passionately in love. We decided to give a relationship a try.

Well, she came out here to Vegas to spend the weekend with me. She left on Sunday. Her and I came very, very, very, very, very close to sleeping together on Friday night (a short while after she worked up the courage to say "I love you"). But I just couldn't. In the heat of the moment I fell apart, and in her passion she slapped me across the face, screamed, and then burst into tears.

I kept falling back on the language of postponement. "I need time." She said we could take it slow, and that it was okay. Even though she kept bursting into tears and seemed to be getting increasingly frustrated and upset. And understandably so. Fully.

Saturday was nice and wonderful. We had a lovely dinner, went for a walk through gardens... it was great. The perfect date. By the end of the night, we were officially boyfriend and girlfriend. The first time ever, for both of us! She lost her virginity about a year ago and has had several partners, one of whom was a "friend with benefits" for a short while, but she had never had a real romantic relationship ever before. And I had never had anybody who had ever called me their "boyfriend." She went home on Sunday morning.

Sunday and the first half of Monday I was on Cloud 9. "Wow, I finally have a girlfriend! Oh, wow!" It felt like all the bitterness, the heartache, the stigma of being involuntarily celibate, all the loneliness, all the loathing... everything... had just gently evaporated. I was looking forward to the future. Love. Sex. Popping the question. A small yet tasteful wedding. Married life. And after four or five years of the DINK lifestyle (dual income, no kids) with weekend cocktail parties and vacations in Europe, the pitter patter of little feet around the house. (All in that order.)

But then, out of the blue, the conflict and turmoil and dissonance that I had been sitting on, trying desperately to contain, just blew up in my face like Mt. Saint Helens.

I dug up my old theology books and scoured the web. Was there any way I could justify entering into a sexual relationship with her? Previously, I had the dropped the "not until marriage" bit on her and she thought it was totally out of the question, and insisted that there had to be compromise. I was willing to look past her agnosticism... ehhhhhhh... unequally yoked isn't exactly up there with adultery, and if she'd agreed to my terms, it wouldn't have been up there with fornication, either. Or at least that was my logic.

As I scoured the web trying to find some kind of justification, any kind of justification, or rather... a "pass"... I came across this website. I read several of the threads. I read something by... uhhhhh... I think "David" is the name? Something along the lines of "sex is marriage." So I came to the following conclusion: I've been avoiding God for a while, dancing on the fence, but to go through with it would have been for me to fully turn my back on Him, and on my brother and on the few others that I am accountable to. I thought to myself, "well, it would just be on a temporary basis, and then if her and I got married or if we broke up, it would be okay again and I could repent." But that just rang hollow and made me feel that I had grown pretty pathetic.

I just didn't have the heart or the wherewithal to resort to that. And she deserved better than my sorry butt. So I did what I felt was the right thing to do.

Oh, by the way, I was warned in a dream (by someone with a very frightening track record) to not enter into a sexual relationship with a woman until the time was right (you know, marriage and all, to the right one), or that very bad things would happen. The person who had this dream... I would trust her with my life and the lives of others, that's how frightening her track record is. Most (though not all) of her dreams come with the clause "if you do Y instead of X, then you can avert these things from coming to pass." And since most people have tossed her warnings aside out of obstinacy (or because they thought she was crazy), her gift has proven itself many a time. She is to be ignored at your own peril. That was the biggest factor in all the turmoil... by far. She was given that dream for a reason. She's one of the reasons (well, her track record and all) why I can't disbelieve.

So, Monday night, while in tears, I called her and said "I can't be your boyfriend." "Are you serious?" she gasped. I was. "I can't compromise on my religious beliefs. I just can't resolve it. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry." "I knew it, I knew it... just when I thought I was finally in love... I knew it...." She burst into tears and hung up.

I was devastated. I had just broken her heart.

Tuesday rolls around and I call her on the phone in response to a text message. That phone call went very badly. It started out friendly but then it devolved into her insulting me, my faith, etc. etc. Understandably so. It's normal for a woman to be that way when she has been rejected. And because she doesn't share my faith, my reasons for rejecting her make zero sense to her. It's all so much irrationality and craziness to her. But still, she loved me desperately. She began to become hysterical. "I love you!!!" she shrieked. And she shrieked it again. I mumbled out something along the lines of "I will always love you... as a... human being." (Which is true. She is a beautiful person.) She shrieked and howled. Then she mumbled something unintelligible, said with mocking bitterness "I guess I'll just give my life over to God" and then I heard this unearthly wail that strangely faded out. A few seconds later the call got terminated.

My immediate thought was that she had just thrown herself off of a bridge! I nearly vomited. I thought "Oh God, oh God, what the dream warned of actually came true even though I tried to do what was right! Why, God, why!?!?"

I began debating whether to call the police. Fortunately my roommates were there, and we put our heads together. 1) She doesn't have a history of suicidal behavior; 2) she would have been peppering her speech with hints, warnings, innuendos, outright threats; 3) she's deathly afraid of heights and couldn't have gotten to such a tall place in the time the phone call lasted, starting from the destination where I knew she was (and was sure she hadn't left); 4) I would have heard all the noise if she was where she could have suddenly thrown herself in front of a truck or a train or something. I tried calling her. Her phone rang... went to voice mail. I left a message saying that I just wanted to make sure that she was okay.

An hour or so later she text messaged me. Saying that she was okay, that she wanted to know if I was okay, and that she loved me and missed me terribly. I showed it to my roommates and they said she was probing... still trying to bring me back to her. My heart broke a little bit again... already broken. I texted her back, saying "I will always love you for the person that you are." She texted back, saying "I thank you for your love. Goodbye [my name]." The 'goodbye' struck me as ominous (I would have preferred 'good night'); it made me think of the phrase "goodbye cruel world!"; but my roommates said not to worry.

And that was last night. The last I heard from her.

Hey, I really did and still do love her. She's a great girl. Just an ordinary girl. She's not a bad person. She doesn't believe what we believe so there's no way I can judge her by our standards.

If I could walk away from God, or at least degrade to some lame liberal/non-orthodox line of theology, then I could have had a nice first girlfriend. Her and I could have been boyfriend and girlfriend. We seemed pretty compatible. Who knows, she could have been the mother of my children? Not that I'm too keen on the idea of kids... but get this... she wasn't big on kids or marriage until she fell in love with me. Next thing you know, we were talking about those things as if it were natural.

It was almost like I could have married her before she went back to L.A. Almost.

But I threw it all away... if only to obey the Letter of the Law... a line of reason that she is understandably scornful of. It seems like such a cruel law. I could have been so happy with her. I could be so happy right now as I type this... but now there's this sucking hollow feeling. I feel like I just threw away the best thing that ever happened to me. And she is just devastated. What hurts worst of all is the pain that I have caused her. I feel as if I picked up a kitten and threw it in the fireplace. I feel like I deserve to be stabbed through the guts with a red hot poker. I've broken her heart, and mine... and for what? The cold iron law... the impassive black words on dull white paper.

Today I just had this deeply bitter sense of resentment. It just doesn't add up or seem fair or make rational sense that I should have gone and done this to her, to us. If life were fair, if I were entitled to an ordinary life instead of being backed into a corner, I could be in love right now with the girl of my dreams. The one thing I always wanted... more than anything else. And now I have nothing. Nothing. I have nothing. And she has nothing. I've brought us both into heartbreak and ruin.

Now I have nothing to look forward to. I was planning on going back and forth regularly during the summer because I'd have more flexibility then, and we were going to develop our relationship. But now that's not going to happen. I have nothing to look forward to, as far as I can look ahead.

Well, since I went and did this to her... I might as well start going back to church, since I've "made my stand" and effectively chosen one side of the fence over the other.

But that doesn't seem very appealing. I'm trying to pray (more than I have in years) but it's not easy. I find myself more apt to curse at God than anything. It just seems like a dead end. No joy. No purpose other than to be kicked around doing one dirty job after another that just takes its toll. Nothing but watching churches do things other than what they should be doing, succumbing to things that could be easily dealt with if faced up to, falling well short of their potential... to the point that perhaps their potential (i.e., Mark, Acts, Ephesians, Revelations) isn't even attainable in this age.

And worst of all... no woman, no wife.

Where is my wife? Where is she?

I know if I left the church for good I could find a woman to love and marry. I know I could.

But every church I've been to... there weren't any marriageable women... or if there were, I just had zero luck with them. I don't know what it is... it's like I'm cursed. And I went to two churches for the better part of a decade where single young women (aside from the senior pastor's daughter) were all but non-existent. Nothing but married women young and old, widows... and young men, many of whom were as lonely and desperate and frustrated and angry as I was. Many of them.

Many.

I think this is a major problem in certain places. Maybe it's a West Coast thing? I'm told that in the Bible Belt there are churches that are just bursting at the seams with beautiful marriageable young women. Well, heck, out in these parts it's often difficult just to find a church worth going to in the first place. From what I understand, the West Coast and Nevada (simply by virtue of Las Vegas being in it) is the most unchurched part of America. And Las Vegas is (surprise surprise) the most unchurched city in America according to statistics. Well, they're building new churches... way out in the suburbs. I live in the middle of the city and I don't drive.

I am a Californian... going back to the 18th century in some strains, the Great Depression by the latest strain. Now I'm a Las Vegan. This is all I've ever known. Life in the wild, secular west.

Where are the young Christian women in need of a husband? I'll volunteer! *Raises hand* Here I am! Right here!!! Come'n get it!!!

Or at least a coupl'a dates? Dinner and a movie? Is that too much to ask!?

Why not me? Why others and not me? I feel like I am cursed.

Well, here's something I left out. Back in 2003, about half a year after the pastor's daughter dumped me, I woke up one morning and shook my fist at God. "I'm going to find me a wife, and you're either going to help me or you're going to stay out of my way!!!" He answered back "when you can show as much zeal for finding the one lost sheep out of the 99, then we'll talk." How did I react to that? I fell into a months-long depression and cut off all contact with Him.

Even then when I was far closer to Him than I am now, I couldn't fathom having as much zeal for the Great Commission as I do for somehow putting an end to this lifetime of bitter, crushing desperation. And now, more than ever, I wish I could just walk away. At this moment in time, the window of opportunity is such that I probably would have a decent shot at getting her back if I called her tomorrow night and told her that I've changed my mind.

But I can't.

But a man has needs. A man has needs.

And I have this terrible fear that God still wouldn't give me anybody even if I did what He told me to do. Maybe it's just a test... and there's no reward for me after all, other than the privilege to serve Him until I die all alone. And I'm so afraid right now. It burns. It burns.

That is my deepest desire. To have somebody. To love somebody and be loved. And I live in fear that God couldn't care less about that. Or that He wants to deny it to me so that I'll suffer like some kind of saintly medieval ascetic, minus the "voluntary" part. And I don't want that at all.

I want a wife.
 
Upvote 0

Onlythingavailable

Senior Veteran
Apr 19, 2006
5,983
326
✟326,350.00
Faith
Christian
Philippians 4:19:
19But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.



I'm sorry that you have been through so much. I quoted the above passage to remind you that God does know our needs, and that He does provide. Paul wrote that to the Philippians, and if God could see to their needs, would He not see to yours? I know you feel like having sex could have made some of your relationships work, but that's not really true. You don't know where those relationships could've led. God might actually have been protecting you. The warnings and "rules" God has given us aren't just there as some sort of test, they really protect us, even in this life.

I can't pretend to know how much you long for a wife, nor how much emotional pain you have endured, but I do know that obsessions usually do not end well. You have tried your best to find a wife, maybe it's time you allow God to do the searching, while you search for Him?
 
Upvote 0

cffosterangel30

AKA "Andrealin"
Dec 18, 2006
368
18
Vestal, NY
✟23,063.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
It's time to get out of your God's way and allow Him to lead your life.

There's a book out there called 'I kissed dating goodbye' (you can find it in a Christian bookstore) and it's written by a man so perhaps this will help you.

i will pray for you and your future wife. That is one thing we have learned in our church group parenting class -- to pray for our children's future husband/wife.

One other thing i would like to just briefly touch on... but i don't want you to feel i am being judgemental...so i will try to say this as gently as i can:

Please try to keep yourself pure. No more 'officially becomming boyfriend and girlfriend' which i am assuming is a euphemism for 'sleeping together'. God has PLANS for you. These plans may include a pure and godly wife. Do you want the girl He had planned for you to go to someone else because you did not honor a pledge of purity?

Here's something else to think about: exactly how many other men do you want your future wife to sleep with?

i knowwwwwww it's hard to wait. believe i know.. but it will be worth... God's BEST is ALWAYS worth it.

Love in Christ,
Andrealin
'aka cffosterangel30'



You've had enough loonies and psycho girls to last a lifetime i am sure.
 
Upvote 0

Haakon

Active Member
Apr 25, 2007
26
4
Las Vegas, Nevada.
✟15,162.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Single
Please try to keep yourself pure. No more 'officially becomming boyfriend and girlfriend' which i am assuming is a euphemism for 'sleeping together'.

Naw, I ain't never slept with nobody. "officially" means just what it says... I guess they used to call it "going steady" back in the 1950s? :confused: I am a virgin. I never had sex with any of the girls I mentioned. In fact, all but the last of them I never even got to kiss... aside from the last one they were ice queens with severe intimacy issues, most especially the senior pastor's daughter. So no, I'm still painfully pure. I have the sex drive of an alley cat... but I haven't used it yet. So that's not the issue here. Nope, not at all.

The issue is that I'm afraid I'm never gonna find a Christian girl to date/marry. The issue is not me wanting to go looking for women to have sex with. The issue is me wanting to do it God's way - you know, equally yoked, marriage, etc. - and being deathly afraid that it just isn't going to happen.

You've had enough loonies and psycho girls to last a lifetime i am sure.
I have Asperger's Syndrome, a mild form of autism. For certain predatory types we're easy prey. We're also prone to obsessive thought patterns. That can be good if you're trying to crack a science/engineering/philosophical problem - as many of us are wont to do - but bad, real bad, when it comes to dealing with people or with wanting something that the universe just isn't going to accommodate.

I guess I wish I had a guarantee. It's really easy for me to imagine winding up alone, and real difficult for me to imagine otherwise... I've just had such a run of bad luck with this, and I don't know that prayer will make up for a fatal lack of relevant social skills. Well, I've come a long way... if I could only find myself in a place where there's an abundance of Christian girls that I can actually date, I think I would be relatively okay. But that's what I'm afraid of... not being able to hack it. Well, I'm even more afraid that God wants me to remain alone so that I can suffer... for whatever reason. To become a better saint? I don't know. I just don't know. I wish I did. Nothing is worse than desiring something more than anything... and being effectively prevented from having it. I don't mean sex, I just mean... well, you know... whatever happens leading up to marriage?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Involuntary_celibacy
 
Upvote 0

aiki

Regular Member
Feb 16, 2007
10,874
4,352
Winnipeg
✟251,568.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
I dunno' if it'll make any difference to you, but you aren't the only one who has faced the prospect of being alone. I never kissed a woman until I met my wife -- and that was when I was 38 years old! All I can tell you is that if you'll trust God you'll be very glad you did. God is no man's debtor -- ever. You honor Him and he'll honor you. I yearned for almost 20 years for a wife and when God finally brought her along, well, she was absolutely worth waiting for! My wife is spectacular and I am deeply grateful to God for bringing her into my life.

Peace to you.
 
Upvote 0

Haakon

Active Member
Apr 25, 2007
26
4
Las Vegas, Nevada.
✟15,162.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Single
I never kissed a woman until I met my wife -- and that was when I was 38 years old!

Dang! How in the big black universe did you ever even manage it!? I think I might've shot myself before then! Buckshot haircut, about six pounds off the top!

Like, seriously, what was going through your head all those years? That must've been hell on earth at times. I mean, I better than the vast majority of everyone in the Western world can empathize with what you went through... but now at the advanced age of 28 I know I can at least get a girlfriend. Even knowing that I could get a girl to play slobberface with me (and more) at some sleazy dive bar is a comfort (albeit a cold one). But that's hope right there, as illbegotten as much of it may have been. It's what lets me know that I'm a human being and not some mutant.

All I can tell you is that if you'll trust God you'll be very glad you did. God is no man's debtor -- ever.
I hope I can make it, man. I really do. I really do. :( If anything's gonna be the downfall of me, this'll be it. I've lived through some horrific things that would destroy most ordinary men, but this scares me to my core.

You honor Him and he'll honor you.
That's what I'm hoping.

I yearned for almost 20 years for a wife and when God finally brought her along, well, she was absolutely worth waiting for!
How much proactiveness was required on your part? Did you have to learn necessary skills that you didn't previously have in order to take the initiative once it finally presented itself? Or was it 100% divine intervention, as in one moment you were standing around like normal and the next minute *BAM* you finally became the lucky man that you'd always wanted to be?

Now, I'm going to level with y'all. I'm a sociologist by vocation, and it is my wont to observe what's going on at the ground level.

And I think we've got a problem on our hands.

There's a lot of people in the church, men and women, who aren't getting this need met.

They are essentially sacrificing this aspect of themselves to stay true to the church's teaching, that one ought to be equally yoked.

But the problem is... "the world" is an ocean with plenty o' fish but the church is quite often a "small pond" in comparison, especially if you live in a town like Las Vegas (current home) or Los Angeles (native home) where believers are a negligible minority. I can only imagine what it must be like to be a believer in Amsterdam, or in deepest darkest Australia where it's entirely possible for someone to grow up knowing the name of Jesus only as a swear word.

If your romantic skills aren't all that great to begin with (you know, a bit on the shy side or something), your odds are numerically worse in the small pond.

It's a numbers game, people.

I was in a church where there was ten single twenty-something men, one single twenty-something woman who wouldn't touch any of us with a ten foot pole, and about two dozen married couples who seemed happy as clams and were always going on and on about how God had blessed them, and giving us trite advice on "just wait" or "stop looking." If I had a nickel for every time.... :sick: And we suffered. And we stewed in resentment. And we grew bitter, even hateful.

This is something that is causing many people to quit. To quit the church, quit God, to go out into the world and try desperately to catch up... with unsaved people who don't give two squirts or who are outright hostile to Christianity. From my vantage point this is a serious problem that is being ignored.

I am a sociologist. It's my job to notice things, go digging for answers, and then wave the results in people's faces whether they like it or not. There are some hard realities on the ground, people, and something needs to be done. And I am more than qualified to attack this problem by diving into on-the-ground real life conditions.

I ran this by my best friend back in L.A. who is a pastor and he thinks it's absolutely ridiculous. I told him the church should do something about this, and he unsummarily dismissed me and said, with self-righteous gusto, "That is not the church's job!" Lifelong problem of his... dismissing everyone else's troubles (but his own) as being all in their heads, unreasonable, illogical, illegitimate, and/or silly.

Time magazine recently had an article about how this is a massive problem in Mormonism, especially with converts that weren't raised in it and therefore weren't married off by age 19 while at BYU.

I strongly suspect it's a growing problem in contemporary Christianity.

Here's a pathetic story that I'll close this rant with... a rant that I apologize for, even as I keep on ranting.

One time me and my other best friend - who has the same problem I do and who suffers at least as much - went to a wedding for two people that were dear friends of ours. It was like he was the luckiest guy on earth... because though we coveted not, she was like the epitome of our dream girl. It was at a huge old church with a big huge 80 foot tall pipe organ. She was a music major at a Christian college, so half the faculty and dozens of her fellow students turned up... it was like a full blown orchestra accompanying the church organist. It was lavish yet 100% tasteful... the perfect wedding.

I swear he and I almost threw ourselves from the balcony. Well, he and I left the reception early (also tasteful and perfect and lovely in perfect settings) because, as he told me when we got to the truck "I was about to start throwing tables and chairs. I'm serious, man."

I told him "man, I know you're not the type and have never done it before, it's been a long time for me, but let's just go get hammered and pass out somewhere. Maybe even get in a fight with strangers, who knows?" He thought that was an excellent idea, and this was a guy who got violently ill the one time he had one single sip of alcohol when he was 12 years old. (Allergic, maybe?) But then I thought better of it and said "hey, why don't we find stuff to smash up and light it on fire?"

So we went back to his house and busted out the sledgehammers, the pick-axes, the power tools... we made some improvised explosives out of old rifle ammunition... we went to a place where we wouldn't have to worry about the cops... and we just went totally berserk until the sun was about to come up. Screaming and yelling and carrying on. Smashing up old appliances, blowing big ol' holes in them with our charges, dousing them with gasoline and letting them burn... just pure primal scream catharsis.

Well, we did something that night that had serious long-lasting consequences. No, nothing that would have gotten us in prison... but it's something I can't repeat here. We were driven to it in our rage and despair.

I hate to shower y'all with all this emotional vomit :sick: especially since I'm new and all. But this is probably the #1 thing that's kept me out of church for the past few years, and now I have to go back.

I just hope it ain't gonna be more of the same. 10 pathetic resentful desperate guys in the corner, one or two ice queens that have the attitudes of supermodels (even though they... nevermind), and a sea of blissful married couples five or six years younger than we are, half of them with a kid on the way or already there. (Not that I'm all that big on kids... ambivalent, really.)

Maybe it's just me in my little bubble... but as a sociologist, I suspect that this is a massive problem that's being ignored.

Guess maybe I'll find out, yeah? Or is there no use for social science in the church? Are my empirically-based insights not going to be welcome? And yes, even though I rant and I rave, and have tremendous personal stake in it, when push comes to shove I know how to do my job in spite of everything. It's not like we just sit down one day and grind it out stream-of-consciousness like some kind of bug-eyed internet rant.

About the only topic I could never touch is white supremacy... there's no way I could ever be objective or dispassionate about that. They were the biggest gang in my 'hood back in L.A., and I ain't white; they tried to beat my brother to death a year ago... fortunately they messed with the wrong Mexican! He did end up in the hospital with a concussion though, but a few of his attackers probably had to go get emergency surgery and lie about what happened so that they wouldn't get arrested. But anyways, I digress.

Again, sorry for flying off the handle here. It's just... well... :sigh: It's so hard. It really is. I really hope I can make it.

Well, I tried to run but didn't get very far, so here I am again.

:sigh:
 
  • Like
Reactions: jojogirly
Upvote 0

aiki

Regular Member
Feb 16, 2007
10,874
4,352
Winnipeg
✟251,568.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Dang! How in the big black universe did you ever even manage it!? I think I might've shot myself before then! Buckshot haircut, about six pounds off the top!

"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." (Phil. 4:13)

Its really no more complicated than this. Oh, I've had my share of struggles, but depending on Christ for the ability to weather them is how I managed.

Like, seriously, what was going through your head all those years? That must've been hell on earth at times. I mean, I better than the vast majority of everyone in the Western world can empathize with what you went through... but now at the advanced age of 28 I know I can at least get a girlfriend. Even knowing that I could get a girl to play slobberface with me (and more) at some sleazy dive bar is a comfort (albeit a cold one). But that's hope right there, as illbegotten as much of it may have been. It's what lets me know that I'm a human being and not some mutant.

At times I began to wonder seriously if something was wrong with me. I know people around me did, too. I did date women over the years before I married, but none of them ever really gripped my heart. What's more, when I asked God about what He thought about the women I dated He kept saying, "Nope, not this one. Wait." I got pretty wound up and frustrated I can tell you, but I trusted God and waited...and waited...and waited.

I hope I can make it, man. I really do. I really do. :( If anything's gonna be the downfall of me, this'll be it. I've lived through some horrific things that would destroy most ordinary men, but this scares me to my core.

Proverbs 23:7a says, "As he (a man) thinks in his heart so is he..."
You, like anyone else, will be conformed to whatever you focus upon. You see yourself failing, failing you will be. God directs us to "look unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith" (Heb. 12:2) because He knows that as we do, we become like Christ. The apostle Paul wrote, "But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image, from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord." (2 Cor. 3:18) This is how we move from feeling that at any moment we might fall under the power of sin to walking through life as Christ walked, with holiness and spiritual power. The more preoccupied you become with the woman "problem" you face, the more it will grip you and shape you to the end you wish to avoid. Instead, rest your focus upon Christ; think on him constantly. Consider his actions, his words, and his character and prayerfully ask God to "conform you to the image of His Son." As you do, the desperation you now feel will give way to peace and contentment and an increasing Christlikeness.

That's what I'm hoping.

Hope and faith are not the same thing. Don't hope God will keep His promise to honor those who honor Him, believe it!

Gotta' go. Write more later!

Peace to you.
 
Upvote 0

aiki

Regular Member
Feb 16, 2007
10,874
4,352
Winnipeg
✟251,568.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
There are lots of lovely, Christian women looking for husbands up here in Winnipeg. Go to pretty much any Mennonite church and see for yourself. From the sounds of it, though, you've some stuff to get straightened out between you and God before I think He'll bring a woman your way. How much time have you spent lately letting God mold and shape you into a godly man? You think God's gonna' bring along a beautiful, godly woman to some guy who is running amok spiritually? Not likely.

Peace to you.
 
Upvote 0

Haakon

Active Member
Apr 25, 2007
26
4
Las Vegas, Nevada.
✟15,162.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Single
Aiki: You said you dated a bunch of times. Would you say it was consistent, i.e., a rate that you felt was normal for a normal, healthy man? Or did it seem pretty scant to you? How difficult was it for you to get these dates? I'd only ever been on one actual honest-to-goodness date before I met my last girlfriend. Some people just don't have that skill... which would be the sole crux of my anxieties if I wasn't in the church.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Involuntary_celibacy

From the sounds of it, though, you've some stuff to get straightened out between you and God before I think He'll bring a woman your way.

That's the other thing that kills me... knowing I'm not good enough. :(

My own issues aside, I really do strongly suspect that it is a systemic problem in many churches in many places for people of either gender. I speculate off of anecdotal accounts that I've come across... but those accounts have been pretty strong. There is a sizable group of people who have this same trouble outside the church (see the Wikipedia article)... so I am hypothesizing that within the church, such difficulties can be magnified. I feel I need to investigate... in the manner in which I am trained. I mean, if it really is such a pervasive problem, somebody's gotta investigate it the right way, yeah?

Man... it's like next to nobody's gonna be capable of taking this seriously until I produce a mountain of published evidence, and even then.....?

Does anybody else out there have similar experiences? Anybody?
 
Upvote 0

aiki

Regular Member
Feb 16, 2007
10,874
4,352
Winnipeg
✟251,568.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Uh, I'm getting the feeling that you aren't really looking for spiritual answers. I'm sorry, but I'm not really interested in being a sociological case study or statistic. My purpose in writing to you was to encourage you spiritually, not fuel your sociological interests.

When all your investigations are done, then what? God still says, "Be not unequally yoked," no matter what your study may reveal. And you'll still be you after you're finished.

Peace to you.
 
Upvote 0

Haakon

Active Member
Apr 25, 2007
26
4
Las Vegas, Nevada.
✟15,162.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Single
Uh, I'm getting the feeling that you aren't really looking for spiritual answers.

Part of me knows I need them, and part of me wishes I didn't. If that makes any sense.

I'm sorry, but I'm not really interested in being a sociological case study or statistic.
I'm just curious as to how things went for you. That's all. If you knew anything about our methodologies, I wouldn't be trolling some internet forum for dirt on people. I mean, like most people, I do know how to divorce my profession from basic interpersonal interaction, y'know?

My purpose in writing to you was to encourage you spiritually, not fuel your sociological interests.
I was just curious as to your experiences. That's all.

When all your investigations are done, then what?
Perhaps it will be shown that there is a systemic problem (and not just an aggregation of spiritual ones) that is causing a lot of people a lot of grief. The church is not immune to social forces outside it or within it. This wouldn't be to validate my own grievances. I just have a strong suspicion that something's going on beneath the view of too many people.

Whether or not there really is such a problem... I don't know, and you don't know.
 
Upvote 0

Haakon

Active Member
Apr 25, 2007
26
4
Las Vegas, Nevada.
✟15,162.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Single
Well, I went to a church meeting last night. It was a place where everybody knew me, but I hadn't seen them since almost one year ago.

For some reason it didn't go as well as I anticipated. The sermon was something I needed to hear, but it made me depressed. I decided to hit up a bar over in downtown Vegas. As I was making my way over, I kept thinking to myself "great... I'm gonna end up puking just like the last time that church depressed me so much that it drove me to drinking." Well, I guess that thought caused me to show restraint because I managed to stroll out of there while still within the "safety zone." So that's an improvement over the last time I showed up at church (many many months ago), I guess.

This troubles me. I must really not want to be there... but then I know that I have to be. If that makes any sense? There's no choice in the matter... I can't deny what I know to be true.

So now what do I do? I should probably closely review everything everyone's written to me so far before anyone else accuses me of shining them. :sigh: Today I'm going to try and get through to my pastor friend back in L.A. Got some new things to say to him this time, I guess.
 
Upvote 0

aiki

Regular Member
Feb 16, 2007
10,874
4,352
Winnipeg
✟251,568.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Whether or not there really is such a problem... I don't know, and you don't know.

Um, really, you have almost no information about me upon which to base this comment. How do you know what I do and don't know? I've attended churches all my life and am pretty familiar with how they work and the problems socially and otherwise which afflict them. Maybe I know more than you think.

By the way, I didn't think you were "shining me on." I do think you are more preoccupied with your sociological speculations than with sorting things out with God, however. Maybe this preoccupation is a kind of "ignoring the elephant in the room?" I think God would rather you were walking rightly with Him than examining a sociological problem in the church. You're doing the "beam and the mote" thing, it seems to me, not with another person, but with the church.

"...first cast the beam out of your own eye; and then you shall see clearly to cast the mote out of your brother's eye." (Matt. 7:5)

Peace to you.
 
Upvote 0

restore

Veteran
Jul 13, 2006
1,757
88
oceans
✟25,319.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I think u lack self security, because your mental trouble, u feel lack self confidence and lack security feeling.....so u feel a potential wife will never happen in your life.....I understand this desperete feeling, because I m a woman with mental trouble, also fear that I can never find a real husband.
But Guess what? God does not work in your thinking style, God works in His own strange mysterious style. So I want to encourge u that put your rock on faith. Trust in your lord and believe a good future.

And same time, u must try hard to get healing of the mental issues, God can heal and I m feeling much better , it takes so long years to make progress and lots pain in healing process, but we must. And also , pls find more male acountable partners or penpals to support when u r weak.
 
Upvote 0

JoshuaM

Veteran
Jul 15, 2006
2,077
103
✟25,321.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
That's the other thing that kills me... knowing I'm not good enough. :(

My own issues aside, I really do strongly suspect that it is a systemic problem in many churches in many places for people of either gender. I speculate off of anecdotal accounts that I've come across... but those accounts have been pretty strong. There is a sizable group of people who have this same trouble outside the church (see the Wikipedia article)... so I am hypothesizing that within the church, such difficulties can be magnified. I feel I need to investigate... in the manner in which I am trained. I mean, if it really is such a pervasive problem, somebody's gotta investigate it the right way, yeah?
Man... it's like next to nobody's gonna be capable of taking this seriously until I produce a mountain of published evidence, and even then.....?
Does anybody else out there have similar experiences? Anybody?

It isn't that you aren't good enough. But on the same note, if you want to say that, none of us are "good enough" for any blessing simply because we are born into sin. But being born into sin doesn't mean we need to sin, and God is definitely more powerful than us. He has the power to help us overcome sin. He also has the power to help us overcome trials, struggles, and to give us what we need and desire.
The world will like you to believe that the church wants to destroy us, but that couldn't be farther from the truth. I want a wife too, and often I find myself wondering if I will marry the girl I love so much. But I also find that if I focus on marriage, and focus on what I want so much, I will worry too much, and also I lose focus on serving God and making him my priority and life.
You mentioned earlier that when you submitted to God and surrendered to Him and said you would be alright with Him even without a wife, you felt peace. There is a reason for this. This happens to all of us. Even in times of extreme depression. Even if that depression is frequent. There is no downside to turning it over to God.

Matthew 6:33
New King James Version (NKJV)
But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.

Trying to prove the church is a bad environment simply because it is not easy to find a wife may prove it is hard, but it won't make you feel better. The reason it is hard is because it is full of people that want to obey God. You said you miss the agnostic girl, but the same time you know it was right to break up with her because God is important to you. I tell you, God knows our needs and desires. He knows the best way to give them to us, even when we think we have figured out everything.

And when we are seeking God, spending time with him each day, and after a while we don't have what we want, if we are asking God, "Where is it?" then in our hearts we have not been really seeking him first. And if we have, we have backslidden to thinking our old thinking style, and we have stopped putting him first.

I am in the same boat as you. As I said, I find myself wondering if the girl I love will be the girl I marry. She wonders the same about me too. But I also know that the timing is not right and if we were to rush our minds would be more on each other than God. For Christians, a marriage should be built on a firm foundation which is making Jesus our Rock, and not only that, but our life. Living for God out of love.. Marrying knowing full well that God is our real well of life, not our spouse is very important. People can mess up, people will not always meet our expectations. And this is because we fall short of the glory of God. We are not God. But living in God can help us be more Christ-like, and thus improve our character and lives and help two who want to spend their lives together grow together instead of stumbling along because of rushing to get their desires.

If you need somebody to talk to, I am willing to chat. I have yahoo, msn, icq, (i can even talk on AIM if necessary), I have skype, and e-mail. I prefer not to do voice chat though right now
 
Upvote 0