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The world isn't obviously created by any particular deity; if that was the case, Judaism and perhaps Christianity would have been among Native North and South Americans prior to Europeans going there.
Question: if God, in all his brilliance and glory, were to appear to you right now -- no intermediaries, no filters -- and you were somehow trying to express what you saw to us here on this board, do you think that you could accomplish that using human language and do justice to the experience?
How so?
It's been done quite well in the past:
Acts 26: (WEB) (Paul recounts his conversion to King Agrippa)
12 “Whereupon as I traveled to Damascus with the authority and commission from the chief priests, 13 at noon, O king, I saw on the way a light from the sky, brighter than the sun, shining around me and those who traveled with me. 14 When we had all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice saying to me in the Hebrew language, ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.’
15 “I said, ‘Who are you, Lord?’
“He said, ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 16 But arise, and stand on your feet, for I have appeared to you for this purpose: to appoint you a servant and a witness both of the things which you have seen, and of the things which I will reveal to you; 17 delivering you from the people, and from the Gentiles, to whom I send you, 18 to open their eyes, that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’
19 “Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, 20 but declared first to them of Damascus, at Jerusalem, and throughout all the country of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, doing works worthy of repentance. 21 For this reason the Jews seized me in the temple and tried to kill me. 22 Having therefore obtained the help that is from God, I stand to this day testifying both to small and great, saying nothing but what the prophets and Moses said would happen, 23 how the Christ must suffer, and how, by the resurrection of the dead, he would be first to proclaim light both to these people and to the Gentiles.”(WEB)
The below in the Greek if that is what you prefer:
12 Ἐν οἷς πορευόμενος εἰς τὴν Δαμασκὸν μετ’ ἐξουσίας καὶ ἐπιτροπῆς τῆς τῶν ἀρχιερέων 13 ἡμέρας μέσης κατὰ τὴν ὁδὸν εἶδον, βασιλεῦ, οὐρανόθεν ὑπὲρ τὴν λαμπρότητα τοῦ ἡλίου περιλάμψαν με φῶς καὶ τοὺς σὺν ἐμοὶ πορευομένους· 14 πάντων τε καταπεσόντων ἡμῶν εἰς τὴν γῆν ἤκουσα φωνὴν λέγουσαν πρός με τῇ Ἑβραΐδι διαλέκτῳ, Σαοὺλ Σαούλ, τί με διώκεις; σκληρόν σοι πρὸς κέντρα λακτίζειν. 15 ἐγὼ δὲ εἶπα, τίς εἶ, κύριε; ὁ δὲ κύριος εἶπεν, ἐγώ εἰμι Ἰησοῦς ὃν σὺ διώκεις. 16 ἀλλὰ ἀνάστηθι καὶ στῆθι ἐπὶ τοὺς πόδας σου· εἰς τοῦτο γὰρ ὤφθην σοι, προχειρίσασθαί σε ὑπηρέτην καὶ μάρτυρα ὧν τε εἶδές ὧν τε ὀφθήσομαί σοι, 17 ἐξαιρούμενός σε ἐκ τοῦ λαοῦ καὶ ἐκ τῶν ἐθνῶν, εἰς οὓς ἐγὼ ἀποστέλλω σε 18 ἀνοῖξαι ὀφθαλμοὺς αὐτῶν, τοῦ ἐπιστρέψαι ἀπὸ σκότους εἰς φῶς καὶ τῆς ἐξουσίας τοῦ σατανᾶ ἐπὶ τὸν θεόν, τοῦ λαβεῖν αὐτοὺς ἄφεσιν ἁμαρτιῶν καὶ κλῆρον ἐν τοῖς ἡγιασμένοις πίστει τῇ εἰς ἐμέ. 19 ὅθεν, βασιλεῦ Ἀγρίππα, οὐκ ἐγενόμην ἀπειθὴς τῇ οὐρανίῳ ὀπτασίᾳ, 20 ἀλλὰ τοῖς ἐν Δαμασκῷ πρῶτόν τε καὶ Ἱεροσολύμοις, πᾶσάν τε τὴν χώραν τῆς Ἰουδαίας καὶ τοῖς ἔθνεσιν ἀπήγγελλον μετανοεῖν καὶ ἐπιστρέφειν ἐπὶ τὸν θεόν, ἄξια τῆς μετανοίας ἔργα πράσσοντας. 21 ἕνεκα τούτων με Ἰουδαῖοι συλλαβόμενοι ὄντα ἐν τῷ ἱερῷ ἐπειρῶντο διαχειρίσασθαι. 22 ἐπικουρίας οὖν τυχὼν τῆς ἀπὸ τοῦ θεοῦ ἄχρι τῆς ἡμέρας ταύτης ἕστηκα μαρτυρόμενος μικρῷ τε καὶ μεγάλῳ, οὐδὲν ἐκτὸς λέγων ὧν τε οἱ προφῆται ἐλάλησαν μελλόντων γίνεσθαι καὶ Μωϋσῆς, 23 εἰ παθητὸς ὁ Χριστός, εἰ πρῶτος ἐξ ἀναστάσεως νεκρῶν φῶς μέλλει καταγγέλλειν τῷ τε λαῷ καὶ τοῖς ἔθνεσιν.
God said Adam would die. Adam didn't.
How much clearer does it have to get?
So that's it, and nothing more -- the absolute glory of the presence of God, perfectly encapsulated in human speech. That's what everyone is going on about.
Can't say I see what all the hubbub is about...
Adam did die. On the day Adam and Eve ate of the fruit they were told they would return to dust as they came from dust. The curse of death was sentenced on that day for their physical bodies and they also became spiritually dead in their trespasses in need of Gods' Grace.
If I said that eating a piece of fruit would kill you, and you died 80 years after eating the fruit, wouldn't you think I was full of it?
Are you God?
Adam did die. On the day Adam and Eve ate of the fruit they were told they would return to dust as they came from dust. The curse of death was sentenced on that day for their physical bodies and they also became spiritually dead in their trespasses in need of Gods' Grace.
Judas came to the same conclusion you did when he found out he was not going to 'get anything' worldly from this Jesus movement.
I don't see why it would matter. If you die 80 years later, it's pretty obvious that the fruit didn't kill you.
I am ready for your exegesis on Genesis 2-3 in the Hebrew.And yet they lived on for quite some time until the curse finally took effect.
Sorry, no. God didn't say that Adam would be cursed to die on that day, He said that he would die on that day.
And Adam lived on for quite a few days afterward...
Not getting anything otherworldly, either... I've heard more inspiring descriptions from Tolkien -- there's an author who knew how to write a decent entrance...
Is God truly so small and unimposing that He can be caged in human speech without so much as a "you had to be there"?
And by the way, your interpretation of Judas' motives is lacking in Biblical support... you might want to fix that.
Not getting anything otherworldly, either... I've heard more inspiring descriptions from Tolkien -- there's an author who knew how to write a decent entrance...
Is God truly so small and unimposing that He can be caged in human speech without so much as a "you had to be there"?
And by the way, your interpretation of Judas' motives is lacking in Biblical support... you might want to fix that.
I am ready for your exegesis on Genesis 2-3 in the Hebrew.
Is your point the Fullness of God cannot be known so we should not expect to attempt to approach Him?
Maybe the problem isnt that God is too small, but maybe its that you are too big. You cannot see past yourself. This isnt a harsh crack on you, its really just an observation.
WE are all like that as well. Look beyond yourself and maybe you will see something else. Don't you wonder about your soul?
In a question it would be- Who am i? Why am i here? How can i live forever?
After you.
If that was my point, it would've been what I said.
How can you use language to so utterly encapsulate God when you can't even use it to grasp the point a mere mortal such as myself is making?
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