Here is what Billy Graham thinks . . .

[Vance]

Exactly Sascha.

SBG, I have listened to Graham very often, and find him one of our greatest Christian leaders. I have nothing but respect for him, and for the very reason that he is strong enough in his faith to make the statements in the OP. What I am asking is if YOU are willing to make those same statements?

Yes, I agree with him completely that we should be focusing on Christ and the Gospel message. But the problem is that many, many YEC's don't do this, they have ministries, lecture series, books and websites, and now even an AMUSEMENT PARK, focused on this very issue. They are MAKING this a divisive issue in the Church, making it a focus of attention, to the detriment of the Faith, whereas TE's would be content just to let people believe what they want to on this point and move on. Sure, it would still be interesting to discuss, but not a divisive issue like many YEC's have made it.

Personally, discussing this issue makes up very little of my time. I spend much more time simply speaking to others about Christ. As a Gideon, I spend a great deal of time handing out Testaments and talking to people about Jesus. The reason I even have come here to speak out about this issue is due to the disturbing amount of time I have to spend UDOING YEC damage while trying to speak about Christ.

And I think this is what Graham is getting to, he is saying that YEC's have gotten their emphasis in Genesis all wrong and have focused too much on opposing evolution. As he says, it makes no difference whether God used evolution, so why should we be bothering with that issue? We should be focussing on the Gospel message. In short, this "issue" would not be an "issue" if the YEC's did not make it one.

 

[Smidlee]

And I think this is what Graham is getting to, he is saying that YEC's have gotten their emphasis in Genesis all wrong and have focused too much on opposing evolution. As he says, it makes no difference whether God used evolution, so why should we be bothering with that issue? We should be focussing on the Gospel message. In short, this "issue" would not be an "issue" if the YEC's did not make it one.

Some YEC probably see TE as compromisers and knows that the bible itself is under attack by the world's philosophy just as in the beginning of Genesis the serpent questioned God's word. So it not just Genesis under attack but the scripture themselves where many see that Genesis is the easyest target since it the fartherest away in modern times.
By using Billy Graham , a big compromisers, doesn't help TE case of not looking like compromisers. True, I know noone who say Billy Graham isn't a christian as the same with President Bush but many can see both these men playing the politically correct game. Even after Sept.11, I watch how weak and poorly Billy Graham preach the gospel as not to offend noone. It as if he was ashame of the gospel yet this is the big reason why politicals choose Graham to make these services. You can tell a lot about a preacher and politicians more by what they don't say more than what they say.
So if you don't want to look like a compromiser , middle of the road, backbone of a jellyfish, Mr. Milktoast then I wouldn't use a political correct preacher as an example to support your case.
P.S. I still believe Billy Graham is a christian and since I found myself at times ashamed of the gospel and had a big yellow streak down my back when it comes to witnessing and standing for truth. Which is why one of my verse is Paul statement "I'm not ashamed of the gospel.." which is my desire.

 

[Vance]

Wow, I have never heard anyone assert that Graham was a compromiser when it comes to preaching the Gospel.

Personally, I find it ironic that every TE I know personally is a fervent witnesser and unashamed spreader of the Gospel.

Lastly, if the Scripture is under attack, then the TE mantra that "Scripture is true, and this is the case even if evolution is true" is much more of a defense of Scripture than the YEC statement that evolution and Scripture are incomatible and if one is true, the other is false.

 

[Vance]

And I would add that if Graham is a "compromiser", it is amazing that he is probably the most effective person in reaching souls for Christ we have ever had in the US.

 

[Sinai]

And I would add that if Graham is a "compromiser", it is amazing that he is probably the most effective person in reaching souls for Christ we have ever had in the US.

Why limit it to the U.S.?

 

[Vance]

Why limit it to the U.S.?

True, but I am unaware of other major figures outside the US.

 

[Vance]

Any more thoughts on this position statement by Graham?

 

[mhess13]

Any more thoughts on this position statement by Graham?

Yeah,I have a thought--------- who cares?

 

[Vance]

Well, I do happen to care, since I respect him as a man of God. More importantly, I like the position he takes here, and the fact that it comes from an evangelical, even fundamentalist, is important.

 

[Sinai]

Well, I do happen to care, since I respect him as a man of God. More importantly, I like the position he takes here, and the fact that it comes from an evangelical, even fundamentalist, is important.

Although Billy Graham is definitely an evangelical and may possibly be a fundamentalist (at least in the sense of certain doctrinal beliefs as reflected in some of his writings), he also seems to take the rather unfundamentalist approach of being willing to work with all Christians in an effort to carry out our Lord's commands, of emphasizing the broad doctrinal issues that unite Christians instead of dwelling on the individual issues that may divide us, and of trying to do his best to carry out the requirements of the Great Commission--even if that means passing up the opportunity to disparage other Christians......

 

[Vance]

Although Billy Graham is definitely an evangelical and may possibly be a fundamentalist (at least in the sense of certain doctrinal beliefs as reflected in some of his writings), he also seems to take the rather unfundamentalist approach of being willing to work with all Christians in an effort to carry out our Lord's commands, of emphasizing the broad doctrinal issues that unite Christians instead of dwelling on the individual issues that may divide us, and of trying to do his best to carry out the requirements of the Great Commission--even if that means passing up the opportunity to disparage other Christians......

Gosh, you may be right, he may have to give up his "Fundamentalist" label!

 

[mhess13]

Gosh, you may be right, he may have to give up his "Fundamentalist" label!

Billy Graham is certainly no fundamentalist. Evangelical yes, fundie no.

 

[Vance]

Billy Graham is certainly no fundamentalist. Evangelical yes, fundie no.

Phew, then I guess he can go on doing those wonderful things Sanai described!

 

[mhess13]

Phew, then I guess he can go on doing those wonderful things Sanai described!

I can't get into anymore discussion about Billy Graham working across "denominational lines" or I'll get in trouble. I'll butt out of this topic...

 

[Vance]

Yes, he does indeed seem to draw support from a wide variety of Christians of varying denominations. Probably because he can distinguish between the essentials and the non-essentials and disapproves of making the non-essentials an issue.

 

[Smidlee]

Yes, he does indeed seem to draw support from a wide variety of Christians of varying denominations. Probably because he can distinguish between the essentials and the non-essentials and disapproves of making the non-essentials an issue.

Yet this is exactly what gives me what I call "Jehoshaphat alarm" feeling. As a fundamentist I believe the enemy is within not on the outside of the church.
I like Jehoshaphat which even though he did compromises he was later rebuked then he learned his lession. he compromises when he decided to join Ahab (obvious not a rightous man), the king of Isreal.(1Kings 22) The king had 400 preachers all saying the exact same thing and being very political correct too. but ole Jehoshaphat smelled a rat (400 preacher all patting each other and the king on the back with a big smile on their face) and asked " Is there not here a prophet of the Lord besides, that we might enquire of him?"
Then Ahab said "There is yet one man, Micaiah the son of Imlah, By whom we may enquire of the Lord: but I hate him; for he doth not prophesy good concerning me, but evil." (he is very political incorrect)

With this I like one preacher statement "you can sometimes tell a lot about a man by his enemies as it's good to have the right kind."
Who knows maybe it's a false alarm.

 

[Vance]

And where do you see Graham compromising?

Look at the fundamentalist "luminaries" which have graced our national stage: Jimmy Swaggart, Jerry Falwell, Jim Bakker, Pat Robertson, Benny Hinn . . . I am not saying anything against these guys individually, but do you think God has used any of their ministries more impactfully than Grahams?

 

[Smidlee]

And where do you see Graham compromising?

Look at the fundamentalist "luminaries" which have graced our national stage: Jimmy Swaggart, Jerry Falwell, Jim Bakker, Pat Robertson, Benny Hinn . . . I am not saying anything against these guys individually, but do you think God has used any of their ministries more impactfully than Grahams?

Where has I seen Graham really take a stand? would be harder to answer. Yet all these ministries are TV ministries while IMHO I believe radio have a greater real impact than any on these. (As Jim Bakker once testified there a lot of pressure to bring in a lot of cash.) One that comes to mind is J.Vernon Mcgee. Thur the bible is now over 100 languages world wide even bigger than when Mcgee was alive.
As to your list I like Graham probably more than anyone else except maybe Jerry Falwell.(I only heard him a few times.) It's these ministries real impact (not superficial) that I questioned not these men salvation. Just as Jehoshaphat didn't come out and question if these 400 was really men of the Lord. The odd thing was Ahab took Micaiah more serious than Jehoshaphat did which almost cost him his life.

 

[Vance]

I have listened to (and enjoyed) McGee's series, but what God has done through Graham's ministry, plain and simple, is bringing souls into the Kingdom in droves. He has provided a solid, dignified, humble and sincere face to Christianity (ie, a Christlike face) which has provided a HUGE positive impact for Christianity. The simplicity of his message of accepting Christ, and his refusal to get side-tracked into every psuedo-political/theological debate going on has had a more positive impact on the validity of that Gospel message than all of the others combined.

My fear is that Robertson, Swaggart, Fallwell and Bakker have done more to turn people away from Christianity than to bring them in. That may be an exaggeration, but recently Janet Parshall (a fundamentalist radio host out of Washington DC) recently reported on a nationwide survey which ranked evangelical Christians down with used car salesmen and drug addicts (IIRC) as the least respected groups in America. She was extremely distressed and pointed out that this is NOT a matter of being "hated for Christ", but being hated for very good reason, with the level of hypocrisy, lack of love and caring and generally a lack of "showing Christ" to the world. She basically said, "this is OUR problem" and we must do something to correct it if we want to reach these people. The fundamentalists have had control over the "public face" of Christianity in America for a very long time, so I am not sure who else to blame for this sad state of affairs. Very possibly it may have nothing at all to do with the prominent fundamentalists, but that is my concern. Not being sure, however, I do not speak out dogmatically against these types of ministries. It may just be all of us regular Christians who just need to work harder.

I DO know that none of the blame for this can be laid at Graham's feet.