Herding Goats

[TimRout]

Dr. James R. White is reputed to have made the following comment:

"I am convinced that nothing drives Pastors from their pulpits in greater numbers than trying to lead an unregenerate membership."

Comments? Thoughts?

 

[the particular baptist]

I would agree with that. In my opinion the single biggest contributor to unregenerate churchians is the altar call and the superstitious papist sinners prayer.

 

[TimRout]

I would agree with that. In my opinion the single biggest contributor to unregenerate churchians is the altar call and the superstitious papist sinners prayer.

A-men to that! I'll never forget the look on our Deacons' faces the first time I preached the gospel in our church and refused to given an altar call. They looked at me like I was from another planet!

 

[Andy S. Wright]

I'm about to get off of work so I'll save my thoughts and comments for a later time. However, here's an interesting link with some pastoral statistics that I found interesting. Maybe it'll help with the conversation.

Statistics on Pastors - Into Thy Word Ministries

Not proud that I find myself in a number of these statistics...

More later.

 

[the particular baptist]

A-men to that! I'll never forget the look on our Deacons' faces the first time I preached the gospel in our church and refused to given an altar call. They looked at me like I was from another planet!

God greatly bless your efforts to honor Him Pastor Tim.

 

[TimRout]

God greatly bless your efforts to honor Him Pastor Tim.

Hate to admit it, but my reasoning isn't all that holy. I like to do things that work, and the seeker sensitive pseudo-gospel preached in many evangelical churches today simply does not produce genuine disciples. I figure, why waste my time generating fake Christians when the biblical gospel will produce the real thing? Oh sure, real Christians aren't generated as quickly as the fakes, or in such mind blowing numbers as Joel Osteen draws each week; but if we are truly mindful of eternal things, the value of simple Bible preaching becomes quickly evident.

So at The Bridge we have no altar calls, no repeat-after-me prayers, and no gentle preaching. "Repent and believe the good news, sinner!" It's amazing the power of that elemental message when it falls on the ears of God's chosen.

 

[mlqurgw]

There is a world of difference between a goat barn and a sheepfold. Sheep are led by a shepherd, goats must be driven by a goatherder. Of course a big part of the problem is that many who " pastor" are goats themselves. Far too many young men go to school to become "pastors" when it is God who makes men pastors. I am certainly not against school, well at least not totally, but they often only prepare young men to be CEOs rather than pastors. They teach them marketing techniques instead of the power of the Gospel. As I listen to much of what is supposed to be preaching today all I hear is good advice that you can get from Dr. Phil. Is it no wonder that " churches" are filled with unbelieving rebels? Why would it be any different when pulpits are as well.

Edit: Please don't misunderstand me. I am encouraged that God does seem to be raising up men who have the backbone and understanding in the Scriptures to proclaim His gospel in this generation. My time here may not be long but thank God He is raising up young men to take up the mantle. May He give them a double portion of power from on high.

 

[mlqurgw]

Hate to admit it, but my reasoning isn't all that holy. I like to do things that work, and the seeker sensitive pseudo-gospel preached in many evangelical churches today simply does not produce genuine disciples. I figure, why waste my time generating fake Christians when the biblical gospel will produce the real thing? Oh sure, real Christians aren't generated as quickly as the fakes, or in such mind blowing numbers as Joel Osteen draws each week; but if we are truly mindful of eternal things, the value of simple Bible preaching becomes quickly evident.

So at The Bridge we have no altar calls, no repeat-after-me prayers, and no gentle preaching. "Repent and believe the good news, sinner!" It's amazing the power of that elemental message when it falls on the ears of God's chosen.

If men only half believed that the preaching of the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation to them that believe.

 

[TimRout]

A worthy point, Ron.

 

[the particular baptist]

Hate to admit it, but my reasoning isn't all that holy.

It is God honoring though.

Preaching the Gospel, knowing that it is God that will save people or they wont be saved, exalts Christ and honors God.

 

[the particular baptist]

Brother Ron & Pastor Tim, have either of you heard of brother Ernest Reisinger and his treatment on the Law and Gospel ?

 

[mlqurgw]

Brother Ron & Pastor Tim, have either of you heard of brother Ernest Reisinger and his treatment on the Law and Gospel ?

Yes I have. My brother-in-law and Ernie Reisinger are close friends. I disagree with his view of the Law and his dominion theology.

 

[the particular baptist]

Yes I have. My brother-in-law and Ernie Reisinger are close friends. I disagree with his view of the Law and his dominion theology.

Not to derail the thread, but if and when you have time, would you pm me why you disagree ?

 

[mlqurgw]

Not to derail the thread, but if and when you have time, would you pm me why you disagree ?

I am sorry but I mistook Ernie Reisinger's work, which I haven't read, though he is a close friend of my brother-in-law, for Rushdoony who I have read. I will PM you when I refresh myself as to the particulars.

 

[Phileoeklogos]

The great advantage of leading sheep as opposed to driving goats, is that you spend alot less time cleaning off your shoes.........

 

[TimRout]

Brother Ron & Pastor Tim, have either of you heard of brother Ernest Reisinger and his treatment on the Law and Gospel ?

No brother. I am unfamiliar with this man's work. Thank-you for the link. I'll have a look later.

 

[TimRout]

The great advantage of leading sheep as opposed to driving goats, is that you spend alot less time cleaning off your shoes.........

I've gotta remember that one!

 

[mont974x4]

wheat and tares will be together for now. The other problem I see is goats in the pulpit.

Does anyone remember the survey from a few years ago about the spiritual health of pastors? If I remember right there was too many who did not believe the Bible to be God's inerrant and holy Word and there was too many who did not believe Jesus was the only way to God.

 

[DD2008]

wheat and tares will be together for now. The other problem I see is goats in the pulpit.

Does anyone remember the survey from a few years ago about the spiritual health of pastors? If I remember right there was too many who did not believe the Bible to be God's inerrant and holy Word and there was too many who did not believe Jesus was the only way to God.

This is the biggest problem right now. Bad pastors are spreading these things. I've seen them do it in the theology area on CF. It makes my skin crawl.

 

[mont974x4]

The Bible tells us to expect false teachings. It breaks my heart and makes me angry, but it is a part of this life.