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Jonathan95

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Hi,

I have OCD/Scrupulosity.

I contacted a site for counseling and in one mail I said "It's at its worst in school for me, with my thoughts. I'd see an increase on OCD thoughts, and get really vile, disgusting unwanted thoughts"

He answered:

"That is not from OCD... The fault is you and your desires"

Is it really so? Maybe it's a challenge I can't win, and I let Jesus down because I can't win over my mind?

Also, can OCD give doubts about Jesus? Sometimes I have doubts, he said:

"
I wouldn't say that is normal, no. Romans 8:16 says the Spirit bears witness with our Spirit."





 
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Forge3

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Think about what you are saying. If you CAN'T win then how would you be letting Jesus down? That is like saying I can't lift a one ton boulder to free someone and think I am letting Jesus down. In either case one needs help from others. Jesus is the strong man here. Continue to pray and I will add my prayer. How long has it been like this for you?
 
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Jonathan95

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Think about what you are saying. If you CAN'T win then how would you be letting Jesus down? That is like saying I can't lift a one ton boulder to free someone and think I am letting Jesus down. In either case one needs help from others. Jesus is the strong man here. Continue to pray and I will add my prayer. How long has it been like this for you?

How long I've had OCD/Scrupulosity? I don't know.
 
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Jonathan,

I can't help but feel really angry at whoever told you your OCD is your fault or that you cannot have doubts about Jesus. But please understand that often when we address church leaders or our spiritual mentors who do not know about OCD, their advice can often be detrimental, as they don't understand how your disease causes your problems, and they don't know what explanations of their are poorly aimed at an OCD sufferer and how such words can trigger panic from misunderstanding from an OCD sufferer.

Please rest assured that you are saved, and that these intrusive thoughts are not your fault! OCD causes whatever you fear most to seem like a reality and possibility. Whatever you don't want to think or believe your OCD mind will try to push on you. You responsibility is not in your thoughts, but rather what you choose to do with them. Res assured that faith cannot exist WITHOUT doubt, or else it would simply be called 'knowing'. You would have no more choice in believing in God than you would a choice in believing that 2+2=4. Some Christian scholars even argue that doubt is not a lack of faith, but the very essence of faith! God has chosen not to reveal Himself to us completely, though He has left us many signs and wonders, and much evidence through science, archaeology, and testimony. What we have to do is DESPITE our doubts, choose to believe that God is speaking the truth, trusting that we simply cannot see the evidence that illuminates the bigger picture of God at the moment. Think about doubting Thomas! Peter, the Rock of the church! Think about how many times Jesus asked the disciples to do something far-fetched and the disciples said, "Uh, Jesus, are you SURE?" If you CHOOSE to put your trust in Christ, despite whatever you FEEL is real, you are saved! And especially OCD sufferers will have many doubts enter their minds. When you put your faith in christ, it won't guarantee that the doubts will go away, or even lessen! What will it guarantee? Security in Heaven!

I am an OCD sufferer myself. I doubt God, Christ, and my own salvation all the time, and I wrestle with many scrupulosity issues. I don't think I quite struggle with the unwanted sinful images or thoughts like you do, but I really can empathize with your struggle! I have learned from others wiser than I, including scholars' books, Christian psychologists, and other life mentors, that you cannot base your life on thought, feelings, or ideas when you have OCD. You cannot be blamed for what you cannot control. You must choose to CHOOSE Christ, and when you have a bad thought in your head, CHOOSE not to make anything of it (i.e., repeating a cuss word out loud, following a sexual thought through to an interactive fantasy, etc.).

I hope this helps! A book I highly, highly, highly recommend- INSIST that you read is 'Can Christianity Cure Obsessive Compulsive Disorder?' by Ian Osborn. If you are struggling still especially with doubt, read the next to last chapter of 'The Case For Faith' by Lee Strobel, which discusses how doubt and faith coexist.

God bless you! OCD is a terribly torturous struggle at times, but God does not allow us to suffer through anything we can't handle. You are like Job. Satan says to God, "let me test your servant, Jonathan." God knows your strength and will not let you bear what you can't. If you hold fast to your faith in Christ and look to the Lord, you will come out of this struggle ten times the Christian you were before, and the result of your patience and courage will be glory to the Lord and the Kingdom.

Best of luck!
 
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Jonathan95

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Jonathan,

I can't help but feel really angry at whoever told you your OCD is your fault or that you cannot have doubts about Jesus. But please understand that often when we address church leaders or our spiritual mentors who do not know about OCD, their advice can often be detrimental, as they don't understand how your disease causes your problems, and they don't know what explanations of their are poorly aimed at an OCD sufferer and how such words can trigger panic from misunderstanding from an OCD sufferer.

Please rest assured that you are saved, and that these intrusive thoughts are not your fault! OCD causes whatever you fear most to seem like a reality and possibility. Whatever you don't want to think or believe your OCD mind will try to push on you. You responsibility is not in your thoughts, but rather what you choose to do with them. Res assured that faith cannot exist WITHOUT doubt, or else it would simply be called 'knowing'. You would have no more choice in believing in God than you would a choice in believing that 2+2=4. Some Christian scholars even argue that doubt is not a lack of faith, but the very essence of faith! God has chosen not to reveal Himself to us completely, though He has left us many signs and wonders, and much evidence through science, archaeology, and testimony. What we have to do is DESPITE our doubts, choose to believe that God is speaking the truth, trusting that we simply cannot see the evidence that illuminates the bigger picture of God at the moment. Think about doubting Thomas! Peter, the Rock of the church! Think about how many times Jesus asked the disciples to do something far-fetched and the disciples said, "Uh, Jesus, are you SURE?" If you CHOOSE to put your trust in Christ, despite whatever you FEEL is real, you are saved! And especially OCD sufferers will have many doubts enter their minds. When you put your faith in christ, it won't guarantee that the doubts will go away, or even lessen! What will it guarantee? Security in Heaven!

I am an OCD sufferer myself. I doubt God, Christ, and my own salvation all the time, and I wrestle with many scrupulosity issues. I don't think I quite struggle with the unwanted sinful images or thoughts like you do, but I really can empathize with your struggle! I have learned from others wiser than I, including scholars' books, Christian psychologists, and other life mentors, that you cannot base your life on thought, feelings, or ideas when you have OCD. You cannot be blamed for what you cannot control. You must choose to CHOOSE Christ, and when you have a bad thought in your head, CHOOSE not to make anything of it (i.e., repeating a cuss word out loud, following a sexual thought through to an interactive fantasy, etc.).

I hope this helps! A book I highly, highly, highly recommend- INSIST that you read is 'Can Christianity Cure Obsessive Compulsive Disorder?' by Ian Osborn. If you are struggling still especially with doubt, read the next to last chapter of 'The Case For Faith' by Lee Strobel, which discusses how doubt and faith coexist.

God bless you! OCD is a terribly torturous struggle at times, but God does not allow us to suffer through anything we can't handle. You are like Job. Satan says to God, "let me test your servant, Jonathan." God knows your strength and will not let you bear what you can't. If you hold fast to your faith in Christ and look to the Lord, you will come out of this struggle ten times the Christian you were before, and the result of your patience and courage will be glory to the Lord and the Kingdom.

Best of luck!

Thanks!

I have Asperger's syndrome too.

I think it's a new strategy by Satan, to plant such thoughts in me. He tried other stuff, and now that I overcame that, he tries new strategies.

What is horrible for me is that I've seen Jesus once. When I think of what a grace it was, I feel like a total failure because I get doubts that it wasn't him, and if he exists and stuff.

I think it's just because people told me it was a delusion/hallucination and stuff, it makes me paranoid.
 
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tripletiger1200

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Do not ever let yourself think that it is your fault. That will spiral out of control fast and make you unbelievably miserable. This is not your fault, and anyone who is telling you this is wrong. You did not want this to happen. I would suggest reading Romans 7.
 
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Jonathan95

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I don't thinK doubts about Jesus existing is OCD and if it can there is no test to take to prove it is ocd and not doubt

I know he exists.

But maybe OCD is a little bit involved.

"The acts of those who have OCD may appear paranoid and potentially psychotic."

What other people are saying, sometimes makes me paranoid.
 
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hedrick

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Hi,

I have OCD/Scrupulosity.

I contacted a site for counseling and in one mail I said "It's at its worst in school for me, with my thoughts. I'd see an increase on OCD thoughts, and get really vile, disgusting unwanted thoughts"

He answered:

"That is not from OCD... The fault is you and your desires"

Is it really so? Maybe it's a challenge I can't win, and I let Jesus down because I can't win over my mind?

Also, can OCD give doubts about Jesus? Sometimes I have doubts, he said:

"
I wouldn't say that is normal, no. Romans 8:16 says the Spirit bears witness with our Spirit."


One of the classic symptoms of OCD is vile, unwanted thoughts. The response he gave you looks like it is irresponsible. I'd stay away from that site, or at least that person.
 
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Jonathan,

God does indeed speak to some people through dreams and visions, and I feel I'm not one to judge whether your 'sight' of Jesus was really from God or not. I just also advise you to really continue to strengthen your belief with the words of the Bible, and perhaps some outside evidence as well. I apologize that I don't think I know enough about visions and how strongly people believe on them. This is something you might want to discuss with your pastor or Christian mentor. I would be cautious about putting too much of your faith around this vision, though. It could indeed be real! But if it isn't really Him in your vision, of course that doesn't make the Bible any less true. You are not doubting Christ's existence when you doubt the reality of your vision (remembering that even when you DO doubt Christ, that does not cost you your salvation). You are doubting the reality of a particular vision, and nothing more.

Yes, I think Satan is having a field day being mean to you and hurting your life with this disease. But you have the potential of being a strong instrument of the Lord's against his foul plans.

I don't really know much at all about Asperger's syndrome. Dang! Two disorders at once! That's gotta be rough! Do you thing your Aspergers is affecting your spiritual life as well?

And in response to Raven, doubt exists regardless of whether a person has OCD or not; it's just with OCD sufferers that it's more frequent, irrational, and unrelenting. The way to face it is the same for both kinds of people: CHOOSE to follow Christ no matter what doubts you may have.
 
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Jonathan95

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Jonathan,

God does indeed speak to some people through dreams and visions, and I feel I'm not one to judge whether your 'sight' of Jesus was really from God or not. I just also advise you to really continue to strengthen your belief with the words of the Bible, and perhaps some outside evidence as well. I apologize that I don't think I know enough about visions and how strongly people believe on them. This is something you might want to discuss with your pastor or Christian mentor. I would be cautious about putting too much of your faith around this vision, though. It could indeed be real! But if it isn't really Him in your vision, of course that doesn't make the Bible any less true. You are not doubting Christ's existence when you doubt the reality of your vision (remembering that even when you DO doubt Christ, that does not cost you your salvation). You are doubting the reality of a particular vision, and nothing more.

Yes, I think Satan is having a field day being mean to you and hurting your life with this disease. But you have the potential of being a strong instrument of the Lord's against his foul plans.

I don't really know much at all about Asperger's syndrome. Dang! Two disorders at once! That's gotta be rough! Do you thing your Aspergers is affecting your spiritual life as well?

And in response to Raven, doubt exists regardless of whether a person has OCD or not; it's just with OCD sufferers that it's more frequent, irrational, and unrelenting. The way to face it is the same for both kinds of people: CHOOSE to follow Christ no matter what doubts you may have.

I know it was Jesus I saw:

I woke up crying after a nightmare. And a bit later, I saw this man (the room was dark) with a robe shining in light blue, his face shined in light blue too but not as powerful as his eyes did. Even though they were shining so bright I could still feel how nice and beautiful they were and calm nice eyes and the most still and nicest voice I've ever heard, and he said with an echoing and mighty, but yet a still and nice voice "You don't have to be afraid, Jonathan", and then he left.

What I didn't know until a few weeks ago, to my surprise, was that my mum had prayed to Jesus "Please, tell him that he don't have to be afraid!" I had probably been afraid for a really long time. But I don't know how many times she had prayed, but she said my encounter with Jesus happened not so long after she had prayed, maybe like 1 week after or so.


Asperger's is in the Autism spectrum, if you know what Autism is? Asperger's has its pros and cons. With my Asperger's I feel really dead to the world, and so, and really humble.
 
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Jonathan95

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Hey there Jonathan. Just wanted to say that it sounded like an awesome comforting vision that you had. God bless and Have a Merry Christmas!

Yes :)
God bless you too, and a Merry Christmas to you aswell, my sister in Christ!
 
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Jonathan,

That sure sounds really cool! Well, just keep praying and putting your faith in Jesus. Make sure to always seek help through Christian counseling and psychiatry (though if you can't find a Christian counselor or psychiatrist, still see them, but just make sure that they know that your faith in Christ is important to you and that they need to be sensitive to it and not say anything that is against keeping your faith), and do try to read those books.
 
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Jonathan95

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Jonathan,

That sure sounds really cool! Well, just keep praying and putting your faith in Jesus. Make sure to always seek help through Christian counseling and psychiatry (though if you can't find a Christian counselor or psychiatrist, still see them, but just make sure that they know that your faith in Christ is important to you and that they need to be sensitive to it and not say anything that is against keeping your faith), and do try to read those books.

Which books?

I don't think there are any Christian counselors or Christan psychiatrists nearby, and I definetly don't want to take medication or go to a non-Christian psychiatrist.
 
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Jonathan,

Medication is so, so, SO important! OCD is a chemical disfunction in the brain, and medicine can help you deal with your problems better! I'm on Lexapro, and I experience no side affects. Even if I did, I think it would be worth it. Please, please look into taking medicine! The first step to getting better is admitting that you need help.

Did I not recommend these books to you? Well, here they are; crucial reads! :
'Can Christianity Cure Obsessive Compulsive Disorder?' by Ian Osborn
'The Case for Faith' by Lee Strobel (the next to last chapter deals with the coexistence of faith and doubt)

I really like smith1's suggestion! And if that doesn't work, I still would recommend trying to find at least a psychiatrist. Just because a person doesn't advertise a Christian practice doesn't mean that that person won't be a Christian or at least sensitive to those who are Christians. Try and contact or meet with a psychiatrist before you begin receiving treatment from them and ask them about how they plan to help you in relation to your faith.

If you can't find a counselor, here's a workbook I know of that teaches cognitive therapy that you might consider consulting:
'OCD Workbook, Third Edition' by Hyman and Pedrick

Please, please, please give medication some considertion! Don't try to face your OCD alone!
 
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Jonathan95

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Jonathan,

Medication is so, so, SO important! OCD is a chemical disfunction in the brain, and medicine can help you deal with your problems better! I'm on Lexapro, and I experience no side affects. Even if I did, I think it would be worth it. Please, please look into taking medicine! The first step to getting better is admitting that you need help.

Did I not recommend these books to you? Well, here they are; crucial reads! :
'Can Christianity Cure Obsessive Compulsive Disorder?' by Ian Osborn
'The Case for Faith' by Lee Strobel (the next to last chapter deals with the coexistence of faith and doubt)

I really like smith1's suggestion! And if that doesn't work, I still would recommend trying to find at least a psychiatrist. Just because a person doesn't advertise a Christian practice doesn't mean that that person won't be a Christian or at least sensitive to those who are Christians. Try and contact or meet with a psychiatrist before you begin receiving treatment from them and ask them about how they plan to help you in relation to your faith.

If you can't find a counselor, here's a workbook I know of that teaches cognitive therapy that you might consider consulting:
'OCD Workbook, Third Edition' by Hyman and Pedrick

Please, please, please give medication some considertion! Don't try to face your OCD alone!

Thanks EVERYONE but.

I know someone who got cured from OCD by prayer and fasting. But sadly my parents wont let me fast since I have malnutrition and I weigh 97 lbs~ only.

I will take a look at those books.

But I already have a bit counseling from an American Christian that I chat with on Facebook sometimes.

I like this page too, and I've spoke to the owner of it by mail:
http://www.net-burst.net/guilty/scrupulosity.htm

I don't want to go to a psychiatrist, I feel like it's a waste of time, I don't like going to psychiatrists and doctors.

I don't want to take medication, I'm done with that, I've taken so many different medications all these years, since I was a kid, for my Asperger's Syndrome etc.
 
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Jonathan,

It's your decision what to do. Fasting does NOT work for everyone, and I think your obligation you feel to fast is a product of OCD, for sure! Few people LIKE going to the doctor or ENJOY taking medicine, but you need to be humble and courageous and decide what is BEST for you, not what feels most comfortable. God might be saying to you, "Jonathan, I know it's hard for you, but I want you to try and take this medicine. You need a professional's help getting better, because they know how to help you and you can't do this alone," and you are saying, "No, I want to do this MY way and fast." I'm not God and I can't speak for Him, but I wonder if that is what He's saying? I just know medicine is so helpful, and I truly believe fasting would aggravate the problem you already have and quite possibly kill you, not to mention it will only feed your obsessions, as it is a very radical irrational compulsion.

Jonathan, please think of what will be BEST for you. I know you're sick of medicine and don't like doctors! But try to consider what really has a rational hope of helping you. I really, REALLY don't believe it's fasting! I don't mean to be offensive; I'm just pleading with you!
 
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