Help

[Dream]

I'm having trouble with my faith. No matter how hard I try, I just can't bring myself to believe in the Real Presence. I've asked the same question a long time ago, and I've taken the advice that you've all given to me, but I still lack faith.

I pray for faith pretty much everyday. I read as much as I can regarding the Eucharist. It makes sense to me but still doesn't click; I mean I understand why we recieve the Eucharist, I understand the benefits, and I've had every imaginable question answered for me. But I just don't get it, and I can't bring myself to believe.

I attend Mass at least 4 times a week, more if possible. I'll often pray the rosary before Mass in the Church. And now, I'm starting to go to Adoration, but it just didn't do anything for me. It was a peaceful experience, but no more peaceful than if I were to just spend an hour in prayer and reflection in my room.

It's just that I hear some people's accounts in which they say they break down in tears sometimes in front of the Eucharist. I'm not necessarily looking for an experience like that, but I just want to fully believe.

What am I doing wrong? What should I do? Is there something I'm missing? I feel so lost.

 

[Epiphanygirl]

First, Relax!!!!!
I think you are dwelling on it too much. You know satan can sometimes interfere by making you overthink things, this is were doubt comes in.
Leave it be for now, God will help you out on this. You've already prayed about it, have faith that God knows when to reveal His answer to you.
Might I suggest that you say the Stations of the Cross? Concentrating on Christs Passion will help you.

 

[Metanoia02]

DT,

Let me make a confession. I often feel the same way about the Trinity. Every time I start to think about it, it absolutely blows my mind. Of any aspect of my faith, I have the hardest time getting my brain to accept this. Does that mean I am doing something wrong? I don't know. All I can do is to continue on in the faith, hope and charity that I have been given. Maybe one day it will "click", maybe it won't. But until the end I will be faithful to His Church. The Church which includes the communion of saint has always believed this, so I to believe.

 

[PioMagnus]

Dream Theater,
I agree with the above poster. It is after all a mystery, one that the human mind cannot fully comprehend.

Talk to your spiritual advisor about this, if you don't have a spiritual advisor, talk to your confessor, if not that talk to your parish priest.

How I am about to say this might be confusing, so if I am unclear, ask me to try again. You agree that the Church knows that the host becomes the body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ. Your "unbelief" is covered by your acceptance of the Church's teaching. You believe in the Church, so you believe in the Eucharist.

I don't remember whose prayer this is but it is fitting for you, "Lord help me in my unbelief"

 

[Wiffey]

During times of trouble this simple little prayer helps me: "Lord I believe, help my unbelief."

Ask God to help you to overcome your doubts. At times we all face a "dark night of the soul" where we feel spiritually lost or confused. Christ WILL give us the strength to get through it if we continue to go to Him in prayer. We all stumble at times. The important thing is to get back up and humbly return to God.

Belief is partially a choice, in that we can choose to do things which either strengthen or weaken our belief. Try to spend more time on those activities which strengthen your faith, and less time on the things of this world which lead us into sin and doubt.

Edifying activities: Liturgy/mass, speaking with your priest about spiritual concerns, praying with prayer rope/rosary, bringing your concerns and troubles before God in prayer, spiritual reading (writings of the Saints or lives of the saints, etc), quiet contemplation, listening to spiritual recordings (liturgical chants), reading the Bible. Also going to Confession frequently. Time with friends and family who build you up and give you a sense of security and well being.

(Just start spending a few more minutes each day doing these things. Don't force it too much. Over time you'll be surprised by how much you'll be able to do.)

Things to avoid: Dwelling on sinful thoughts, engaging in sinful behavior, cursing, giving in to negative impulses, sexually graphic material (also TV, music that may have obscene lyrics), drugs & alcohol, etc. Also reading material that denigrates Christ. Anything that glorifies worldly values or objectifies/exploits people. Friends and acquaintances who leave you feeling alienated or depressed.

 

[Maggie893]

From St. Augustine's Sermon
http://www.catholichaven.org/sermons/Sermon_LXV_St_Augustine.html

1. The lesson of the Holy Gospel builds us up unto the duty of praying and believing, and of not putting our trust in ourselves, but in the Lord. What greater encouragement to prayer than the parable which is proposed to us of the unjust judge? For an unjust judge, who feared not God, nor regarded man, yet gave ear to a widow who besought him, overcome by her importunity, not inclined thereto by kindness.1 If he then heard her prayer, who hated to be asked, how must He hear who exhorts us to ask? When therefore by this comparison from a contrary case the lord had taught that" men ought always to pray and not to faint,"2 He added and said, "Nevertheless, when the Son of Man shall come, thinkest thou that He shall find faith on the earth?"3 If faith fail, prayer perishes. For who prays for that which he does not believe? Whence also the blessed Apostle, when he exhorted to prayer, said, "Whosoever shall call upon the Name of the Lord, shall be saved."4 And in order to show that faith is the fountain of prayer, he went on and said, "How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed?"5 So then that we may pray, let us believe; and that this same faith whereby we pray fail not, let us pray. Faith pours out prayer, and the pouring out of prayer obtains the strengthening of faith. Faith, I say, pours out prayer, the pouring out of prayer obtains strengthening even for faith itself. For that faith might not fail in temptations, therefore did the Lord say," Watch and pray, lest ye enter into temptation."6 "Watch," He saith, "and pray, lest ye enter into temptation." What is to "enter into temptation," but to depart from faith? For so far temptation advances as faith gives way: and so far temptation gives way, as faith advances. For that you may know, Beloved, more plainly, that the Lord said, "Watch and pray, lest ye enter into temptation," as touching faith lest it should fail and perish; He said in the same place of the Gospel "This night hath Satan desired to sift7 you as wheat, and I have prayed for thee, Peter, that thy faith fail not."8 He that defendeth prayeth, and shall not he pray who is in peril? For in the words of the Lord, "when the Son of Man shall come, thinkest thou that He shall find faith on the earth?" He spoke of that faith, which is perfect. For it is scarce found on the earth. Lo! this Church of God is full: and who would come hither, if there were no faith? But who would not remove mountains, if there were full faith? Look at the very Apostles: they would not have left all they had, have trodden under foot this world's hope, and followed the Lord, if they had not had great faith; and yet if they had full faith, they would not have said to the Lord, "Increase our faith."9 See again, that man confessing both of himself (behold faith, yet not full faith), who when he had presented to the Lord his son to be cured of an evil spirit, and was asked whether he believed, answered and said, "Lord, I believe, help Thou mine unbelief.10 "Lord," says he, "I believe," I believe; therefore there was faith. But "help Thou mine unbelief," therefore there was not full faith.

 

[krstlros]

Hi DT:
First of all......relaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaax.

What I'm seeing is you need to have some QUIET time to hear what God has to say to you rather than being in constant worry whether you're doing everything right. There is no real way to do everything "right". God doesn't want you to be perfect, He want syou to come to him with an honest, open heart.

Don't fret too much on the doing-ness of it all. Just "be" in the presense of God.

And if you're wandering what "be" means, try sitting in church. Just sit. Nothing more. Just sit. Don't think of whether you're doing it correctly, or how much time you're spending there. Just......sit. And all that conversation you'll probably have in your head, just let it rattle on without answering. Even without your answering, it'll probably continue without your imput anyway.

 

[3toraiseup]

DreamTheater,

When I read your post, this verse popped into my mind: Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

I was also reminded of Jesus' words to Thomas after the resurrection "Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe."

Like you, I have struggled with belief in the Real Presence since I converted to Catholicism a couple of years ago. I have read scads of doctrine and explanations. I can intellectually assent to the teaching, but when I look upon the Eucharist, I do not "see" what others appear to behold.

When I spend time at Adoration, I start by telling Jesus that I do not understand this Mystery, but rather than focus all of my energy worrying about my lack of faith, I press on with Adoration, Praise and Thanksgiving for what He has done for me.

The last time I spent in front of the Blessed Sacrament, I was in great pain and suffering. He physically comforted me. As I sat there and prayed, an overwhelming peace surrounded my heart and my spirit was refreshed. Within that same week, I attended a funeral Mass (my first as a Catholic). It was so utterly sad and painful and I struggled not to audibly weep the entire time. When I received the Eucharist, my pain was lifted - again physically removed and replaced with peace.

Through these experiences, I believe that God has given me what I needed to increase my faith in the Real Presence. I have felt Him!

With that, I leave you with another passage of Scripture from John 20, "Unless I see in His hand, the print of the nails, and place my finger in the mark of the nails, and place my hand in his side, I will not believe... Jesus came and stood among them, and said, "Peace be with you." Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side; do not be faithless, but believing." Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!" Jesus said to him, "Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe."

DreamTheater, Jesus gave Thomas what he needed to believe. He will offer the same Grace to you. Be patient. Perhaps, like me, He will "show" you. But perhaps you will be even more blessed if He grants you faith in the Real Presence without showing.

Prayers for DT.

--Kati

 

[faerieevaH]

DreamTheater, see my post in the adoration thread. *ss* I often find that the reports of people in tears at being in His presence are upsetting and worrying to those who don't experience this at all.
I go to adoration once or twice a week, schedule allowing and I have never felt any special emotional outburst. It's peaceful, as you say. And in first instance not different than an hour or two spend in prayer in my home. But in repeating the act as an act of obediance of 'will' to accept His presence there, it becomes more over time. I still don't get those emotional bursts of tears, buckling knees and I can't say I've ever been awed except on a mental level by His presence there. But adoration has become very important to me.

As to 'not being able to believe it or understand it'... *L* It's a mystery. Give yourself time. Acceptance of it will pave the way to believe and a 'form of understanding'.

 

[ukok]

DT,

I'm sorry that you are experiencing this, but i'm sure that most of us here have had difficulty with some aspect of our faith at one time or another, whether it be in relation to the Real Presence, the Holy Trinity, or something else entirely...we are in the same boat..it's all about faith...at such time's it's all about accepting that which you do not comprehend and going right out on a limb because in your heart, you know that the Church can not be in error..or more to the point, that Christ Himself could not be in error when He gave his 'true' Body and 'true' Blood, in the upper room almost 2000 years ago...I urge you to read John Chapter 6 before attending Mass each time you go....and also imagine that you are there, in the upper room (Luke 22: 17-20), 'hear' Jesus Christ Our Lord, saying the words 'This is my body', 'This is my Blood'..he made no apologies about it..when many of his followers rejected his words, he didn't call them back to rephrase what he had said...instead he made it clear that there would be many who would not accept this teaching (I don't mean to infer that i am referring to you )


DT, I have to tell you that I am often very impressed by your faith, you always seem vibrant and engaging...I would have loved to have been the kind of teenager that you seem to be...but I only knew how to be a scumbag! Commit this sense of incomprehension to the Lord, if you accept the Church teaching, however much you can't understand it, then you know that despite your failure to 'believe', you concede to a higher understanding (that of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, guided in the fullness of Truth by the Holy Spirit) than that of your own.

There are many things that i don't understand...and if i think too much about them, i get downright confused...so I try not to worry about such things that confuse me...I won't know in this lifetime what Heaven is like~ I don't know for sure that my deceased loved one's are there (But I can trust in God's Mercy) I don't comprehend the Holy Trinity, I don't much understand beyond the very basic tennet's of our faith...but I know what I need to know, and so no matter what I do or do not understand, I know that the Church is not in error and that even though my understanding is inept, I know what I need to know, that is...that which is true, that which has been revealed by the Holy Spirit to the One Church the Christ Himself founded...and I ask the Lord for the grace to submit to his will, and for a stillness to my quest for unattainable answers.

Have you a spiritual advisor ? If not, have you spoken to your parish priest about the way that you feel?

God Bless.

 

[gzt]

what do you mean when you say you don't believe? are you expecting to feel a certain way about it or something? what do you expect faith in the real presence to be? you shouldn't expect the host to suddenly start glowing or something. faith is hard and most people aren't given the gifts of these small consolations. surely you must have at least some small measure of faith, why else would you be here, why else would you be worried?

 

[Rising_Suns]

DT, peace be with you,

Correct me if I am off, but I tend to think if someone is having difficulty with the Real Presence then they must no doubt also be having difficulty with the rest of the sacraments, since all of them are a special means of grace through which God brings to us. But with the Real Presence in particular, perhaps it is the fact that Christ is fully present in both of His natures that is causing you to get hung up.

In any case, I would thus read something regarding the ordinary and extraordinary means of graces that God bestows upon us. Perhaps that will help you to see God's reasoning behind employing the sacraments.

Check out this link below from the EWTN archive. This is an article by Fr. Most on "Actual Grace". It's a little in depth, and deals more with Thomistic Theology, but I think it may help a bit; http://www.ewtn.com/library/SCRIPTUR/2THOMIST.TXT

Here's an exert;

God has two modes of moving,ordinary and extraordinary. In the ordinary mode, He does permitman to impede, as St. Thomas says. In the extraordinary mode, God, bytranscendence, can prevent resistance from developing or cutthrough it if it has already arisen, without altogether taking awayfree will. But this is extraordinary. Because it is a reduction,though not a cancellation, of His commitment to give free will. Theprecise reason for calling it extraordinary will come out from thefollowing/

And if you don't mind difficult reading, check this out also. This is an in depth explanation of the sacraments;
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13295a.htm

 

[Rising_Suns]

What am I doing wrong? What should I do? Is there something I'm missing? I feel so lost

Remember in your previous thread you were concerned that God wasn't testing you?

At this time, perseverence is your test. Just be patient and continue doing what your doing and you will see the fruits of your labor in due time.

 

[Benedicta00]

I'm having trouble with my faith. No matter how hard I try, I just can't bring myself to believe in the Real Presence. I've asked the same question a long time ago, and I've taken the advice that you've all given to me, but I still lack faith.

I pray for faith pretty much everyday. I read as much as I can regarding the Eucharist. It makes sense to me but still doesn't click; I mean I understand why we recieve the Eucharist, I understand the benefits, and I've had every imaginable question answered for me. But I just don't get it, and I can't bring myself to believe.

I attend Mass at least 4 times a week, more if possible. I'll often pray the rosary before Mass in the Church. And now, I'm starting to go to Adoration, but it just didn't do anything for me. It was a peaceful experience, but no more peaceful than if I were to just spend an hour in prayer and reflection in my room.

It's just that I hear some people's accounts in which they say they break down in tears sometimes in front of the Eucharist. I'm not necessarily looking for an experience like that, but I just want to fully believe.

What am I doing wrong? What should I do? Is there something I'm missing? I feel so lost.

I don’t think your trouble is belief. I think you do believe but just can not feel as you because you don’t pysically see him there.

It’s okay to look with the eyes of faith, and not see anything there but bread and wine. You have to will to believe it not because you can see it or even grasp it but because Jesus told you he is there.

I don’t believe because I can understand it- I don’t. I don’t believe because I can see it- I don’t. I believe because I know he is there because God reveled through his word (written and oral) that he is there. Just like I can not see Him crucified but I know he was, I can not see him risen, I know he is… None of us has seen him come again- but I know he will, why do I believe all this? Because God said so.

There are time when God will give you conformation and he does this for our comfort because he knows how hard it is for us fallen humans, but even when there are not conformations, I still have to will to believe because we don’t see, Jesus is there but his appearance isn’t. It is okay to not ‘feel’ like you don’t believe, we don’t believe because we see or grasp, we will our belief because we know God revealed this to us and he can not deceive or be deceived.

 

[Benedicta00]

During times of trouble this simple little prayer helps me: "Lord I believe, help my unbelief."

Yes, the prayer of the centurion. “I believe -help my unbelief.” What matters is that we have the will to believe- that we want to believe, that is enough, that is the faith the size of a mustard seed and from a act of our will, our belief and faith will grow into a faith strong enough to move a mountain.

 

[Dream]

Thank you all very much for your advice. You are all such a blessing to have. I can't thank you enough.