Help with verse explanation...

[I'mHis]

Okay, in Bible study last night we read the first part of John 3. Someone asked about what Jesus meant in verse 13 where He said "No one has gone into Heaven except the One Who came from Heaven--the Son of Man. Someone said it was because at that time, no one had been to Heaven yet, because Jesus hadn't been resurrected yet, and when died and rose again, that is when all the saints previous to that ascended into Heaven as well. My Bible has a reference back to Proverbs 30:4, where is says "Who has gone up to Heaven and come down? Who has gathered up the wind in the hollow of his hands?….” And previously in the John passage, Jesus has talked about how Nicodemus couldn’t understand “spiritual” things. So in v13, is He saying there is no way Nicodemus can understand everything He is talking about completely because he isn’t God? Anyway, if anyone could explain this a little further, that would be awesome!!! Thanks!

 

[pimorton]

There are many instances in the Old Testament when the Angel of the Lord appears to people who react to Him as diety - the preincarnate Christ. This explains the Proverbs passage and the John 3 passage. As far as Nicodemus not being able to understand, Paul wrote to the Corinthian church that the natural man can not understand spritual things, because they are spirtually discerned; but we have the mind of Christ. Nicodemus was trying to understand the spiritual truths Jesus was presenting with his natural mind.

 

[dcyates]

Okay, in Bible study last night we read the first part of John 3. Someone asked about what Jesus meant in verse 13 where He said "No one has gone into Heaven except the One Who came from Heaven--the Son of Man. Someone said it was because at that time, no one had been to Heaven yet, because Jesus hadn't been resurrected yet, and when died and rose again, that is when all the saints previous to that ascended into Heaven as well. My Bible has a reference back to Proverbs 30:4, where is says "Who has gone up to Heaven and come down? Who has gathered up the wind in the hollow of his hands?….” And previously in the John passage, Jesus has talked about how Nicodemus couldn’t understand “spiritual” things. So in v13, is He saying there is no way Nicodemus can understand everything He is talking about completely because he isn’t God? Anyway, if anyone could explain this a little further, that would be awesome!!! Thanks!

This is a good question, I'mHis, but ultimately one that receives a relatively simple answer. Jesus isn't claiming that no departed ones up to his time have entered into God's presence, otherwise known as heaven. During and around the 1st-century many Jews believed that Moses had ascended into heaven and that it was there that he received the Law from God. Other mystics of that day made the same claim for themselves, in an attempt to obtain greater authority for their teachings.

Thus Jesus is simply declaring to Nicodemus that this is not the case; "no one has gone up to heaven," in order to receive the Law or any other message or teaching from God, and that "there is only one who has come down from heaven," namely himself, "the Son of Man," and therefore it is his teachings to which Nicodemus and the rest of Judea should be paying special heed.

This is, in fact, yet another way in which John's Gospel testifies to the deity of Jesus.

 

[Beasley]

The Old Testament saints went to Paradise when they died. No man entered heaven until after the Cross. Christ had to die and present himself as true humanity acceptable to God before anyone entered heaven. People only enter heaven through Christ and his merits. When Christ was crucified, the physical veil in the Temple that represented the seperation between God and man was torn allowing man access to the Holy of Holies. Man was allowed into heaven only after the Cross.

You might want to read Acts 2. Christ told the thief on the Cross he would be with him that day in Paradise, because Christ's soul went to Paradise until the resurrection. His spirit went to Throne room in heaven as the acceptable sacrifice and his body which bore our sins went to the grave. In the OT picture of the Day of Atonement, the High priest took 2 goats, one was slaughtered and its blood carried into the Holy of Holies and poured out on the altar. The altar was the lid of the Ark of the Covenant which contained the sins of Israel. The Ark was wood overlayed with gold symbolizing the diety and humanity of Christ. The blood of the offering covered the sins of the people. The other goat, the scapegoat, symbolized the taking or carrying away of sin. This goat was sent out into the wilderness to be seen no more. Our sins were poured out on Christs body and were buried with Him. We are considered by God to have been crucified, died, buried, resurrected, ascended and seated with Christ. 1 John 4, Just as he is (already ascended and seated) so also are we in the world. The beleiver needs to try and live in who he is in Christ. Praying from your position at the Fathers right hand is one of the most powerful things you can do.