Help with Matt 13:10-16

[Carl Emerson]

The following passage raises a few issues...

========================================================
the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?”

11 He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12 For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:

‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;
15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should heal them.’

16 But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear; 17 for assuredly, I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
========================================================

So, Jesus is saying that His message of Truth is purposely obscured so the lost who have become hard of heart will not be able to understand it.

So my first question is whether or not this is still the case.

Does this then explain resistance to the Gospel?

Does this mean that if we are not directed by God in our evangelism we can expend energy needlessly?

Does this suggest predestination?

Lastly this would seem to clash with...

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Comments greatly appreciated...

 

[com7fy8]

One thought > things are obscured so enemies will not merely understand intellectually and even get "healed" . . . but on their own.

Because God wants people to learn in sharing with Jesus giving the understanding, and in sharing with us who are in Jesus.

God wants learning to be with love.

 

[Guojing]

The following passage raises a few issues...

========================================================
the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?”

11 He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12 For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:

‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;
15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should heal them.’

16 But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear; 17 for assuredly, I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
========================================================

So, Jesus is saying that His message of Truth is purposely obscured so the lost who have become hard of heart will not be able to understand it.

So my first question is whether or not this is still the case.

Does this then explain resistance to the Gospel?

Does this mean that if we are not directed by God in our evangelism we can expend energy needlessly?

Does this suggest predestination?

Lastly this would seem to clash with...

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Comments greatly appreciated...

The gospel of the kingdom required Israel to believe that Jesus is their Messiah and promised son of God (John 20:30-31)

By the mid point of Jesus ministry, Israel leaders were not going to do so. So Jesus changed to speaking in parables starting there, to put the entire nation in ignorance.

Under the Law of Moses, if you sin due to ignorance, it is still forgivable (Leviticus 4). That is why Jesus on the cross asked the Father to forgive the nation because "they know not what they do".

It paved the way for the Holy Spirit to arrive at Pentecost to give the nation of Israel a second chance to accept the risen Christ as their Messiah and Son of God (Acts 2:36)

But the nation leaders still rejected the Holy Spirit, and when they stoned Stephen in Acts 7, there was no more forgiveness for the nation of Israel, leading to their fall and salvation being released to the gentiles thru their fall (Romans 11:11)

 

[Carl Emerson]

Jesus did testify to the Canaanite woman (Matthew 15:21–28) and the Roman centurion (Matthew 8:5–13). So His message was not just for Jews.

 

[martymonster]

The following passage raises a few issues...

========================================================
the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?”

11 He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12 For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:

‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;
15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should heal them.’

16 But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear; 17 for assuredly, I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
========================================================

So, Jesus is saying that His message of Truth is purposely obscured so the lost who have become hard of heart will not be able to understand it.

So my first question is whether or not this is still the case.

Does this then explain resistance to the Gospel?

Does this mean that if we are not directed by God in our evangelism we can expend energy needlessly?

Does this suggest predestination?

Lastly this would seem to clash with...

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Comments greatly appreciated...

Another question would be, if he speaks in parables, why do people think they can just read his words and take them at face value?

 

[martymonster]

The following passage raises a few issues...

========================================================
the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?”

11 He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12 For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:

‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;
15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should heal them.’

16 But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear; 17 for assuredly, I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
========================================================

So, Jesus is saying that His message of Truth is purposely obscured so the lost who have become hard of heart will not be able to understand it.

So my first question is whether or not this is still the case.

Does this then explain resistance to the Gospel?

Does this mean that if we are not directed by God in our evangelism we can expend energy needlessly?

Does this suggest predestination?

Lastly this would seem to clash with...

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Comments greatly appreciated...

Another question would be, is it possible that the gospel isn't for everyone right now?

The idea that he would be furiously running around trying to save people from everlasting punishment, seems to be in stark contrast to his statement.

 

[Unqualified]

Jesus wants us all to get saved but he wants the gospel to fall on an inquisitive heart, curious who will look into it apply themselves to find the truth.
Yes unbelievers are still blind and hard hearted but the truth is there. No time spent evangelizing is wasted. We can plant seeds each time, circumstantial evidence that adds up in the infertile mind, and plowing if you will.

The goodness of God in some churches to explain the truths, counsel and prayer. Few take them up on that and if they do sometimes still disbelieve. But everybody gets a chance or more to hear the gospel. So some day they may have a need and see all the witnessing and have change of heart.

I think verse 12 is about faith. If they believe the law and the prophets more faith will be given. But if not…. If they believed the scriptures they would look into what Jesus said about the Messiah. Then Paul too. And if they believed His miracles that should give them appetite for this new thing in Jesus.

 

[Eloy Craft]

Parables allow a person to discover their sinfulness/error rather than someone telling them.

 

[ewq1938]

2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

So who was it that "blinded the minds of them which believe not"?

It was God.

Joh 12:38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
Joh 12:39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
Joh 12:40 He (God) hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
The HE here is God and this is very similar language. God blinded them so they could not convert and be healed! Isn't that what the other verse is saying? Also note that in both scriptures the people being blinded didn't believe prior to the blinding:

"blinded the minds of them which believe not"
"Therefore they could not believe" "He (God) hath blinded their eyes"

Same God doing the blinding and same people being blinded.

Romans 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
Romans 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear) unto this day.

Some will say it's a little "g" on god so that means its not God. Not so. There are no capitals in the manuscripts. The small g is purely the translators opinion. It is not fact nor is it done because of any small letter in the manuscripts.

While Satan can be considered a false god of this world, he simply isn't the one being spoken of because it is God which blinds so people cannot convert to Christ and be healed.

 

[Richard.20.12]

> By the mid point of Jesus ministry, Israel leaders were not going to do so. So Jesus changed to speaking in parables starting there, to put the entire nation in ignorance.

I would say that Jesus changes His teaching style at this point to show us that its often better to go where we will be received and not waste time with people that are determined to destroy us. We've all met them: Atheists that derive a warped sense of pleasure if they feel they have diminished the effectiveness of the Word in that area. You might feel like you're making progress but eventually you realize its kind of fruitless. Our time is limited and valuable so we must choose who we try to reach as best we can. It doesn't mean we give up on those people of course. Just that we may not spend time with them now. We will monitor them and look for opportunities in the future.

 

[martymonster]

2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

So who was it that "blinded the minds of them which believe not"?

It was God.

Joh 12:38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
Joh 12:39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
Joh 12:40 He (God) hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
The HE here is God and this is very similar language. God blinded them so they could not convert and be healed! Isn't that what the other verse is saying? Also note that in both scriptures the people being blinded didn't believe prior to the blinding:

"blinded the minds of them which believe not"
"Therefore they could not believe" "He (God) hath blinded their eyes"

Same God doing the blinding and same people being blinded.

Romans 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
Romans 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear) unto this day.

Some will say it's a little "g" on god so that means its not God. Not so. There are no capitals in the manuscripts. The small g is purely the translators opinion. It is not fact nor is it done because of any small letter in the manuscripts.

While Satan can be considered a false god of this world, he simply isn't the one being spoken of because it is God which blinds so people cannot convert to Christ and be healed.

OK, so how does all this fit with the idea of a God who is running around trying to save everyone from everlasting punishment?

 

[Richard.20.12]

I believe God closes some doors so we open different doors later. This can be done in a myriad of ways. Its God. He has options. We shouldn't doubt.

 

[ewq1938]

OK, so how does all this fit with the idea of a God who is running around trying to save everyone from everlasting punishment?

Well it proves he isn't trying to save "everyone" because he is blinding some from being able to believe and be saved. He knows their souls and doesn't want them in the New Heaven and new Earth.

 

[martymonster]

I believe God closes some doors so we open different doors later. This can be done in a myriad of ways. Its God. He has options. We shouldn't doubt.

Later? Doors?

I thought later was the lake of fire?

 

[martymonster]

Well it proves he isn't trying to save "everyone" because he is blinding some from being able to believe and be saved. He knows their souls and doesn't want them in the New Heaven and new Earth.

So is it possible that he is planning on saving everyone, but only some now?

 

[ewq1938]

So is it possible that he is planning on saving everyone, but only some now?

Let's re-read it again:

Joh 12:38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
Joh 12:39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
Joh 12:40 He (God) hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

God doesn't want these blinded people to see, or understand or be converted and be healed. Difficult words to read, but there they are...

 

[martymonster]

Let's re-read it again:

Joh 12:38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
Joh 12:39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
Joh 12:40 He (God) hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

God doesn't want these blinded people to see, or understand or be converted and be healed. Difficult words to read, but there they are...

Yes, I know understand completely what's being said here, but what are the implications for the majority of humanity?

 

[ewq1938]

Yes, I know understand completely what's being said here, but what are the implications for the majority of humanity?

The majority are not blinded by God so they are free to choose how they want to choose. The road to salvation is narrow so the majority chooses wrongly but they had a choice...

 

[Guojing]

Jesus did testify to the Canaanite woman (Matthew 15:21–28) and the Roman centurion (Matthew 8:5–13). So His message was not just for Jews.

He didn't preach the gospel of the kingdom to them. He even specifically told the 12 not to preach to gentiles (Matthew 10:5-8)

Main reason being that gentiles were cut off from Christ during his 1st coming (Ephesians 2:11-12, Romans 15:8, Matthew 15:24)

They came to him to request a specific healing.

Because they both blessed Israel differently, showing their faith in the Abrahamic covenant, Jesus granted them the specific healing request they wanted.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Well it proves he isn't trying to save "everyone" because he is blinding some from being able to believe and be saved. He knows their souls and doesn't want them in the New Heaven and new Earth.

He is not blinding them, they have free will to believe or not... 1 Timothy 2:4-6