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I'd tell you not to rely on the article's input based upon reasoning or Greek. But I don't think you like my conclusions.
Honestly, at this point I don't think this is a discussion I can have with you. You seem to have a one-sided view of the word "force" even though it is not a single definition word. I have suggested you look up the word to gain a wider frame of reference and you seem unwilling to do so. You also seem to be seeking only the answer you desire, which is a characteristic of eisegetes and the unteachable.
Here's just a little input from Scripture about exercising authority - using appropriate force - in ministry and responding to it. You decide what it means:
NET Titus 1:5 The reason I left you in Crete was to set in order the remaining matters and to appoint elders in every town, as I directed you.
NET Titus 1:10-13 For there are many rebellious people, idle talkers, and deceivers, especially those with Jewish connections, 11 who must be silenced because they mislead whole families by teaching for dishonest gain what ought not to be taught. 12 A certain one of them, in fact, one of their own prophets, said, "Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons." 13 Such testimony is true. For this reason rebuke them sharply that they may be healthy in the faith
NET Titus 2:15 So communicate these things with the sort of exhortation or rebuke that carries full authority. Don't let anyone look down on you.
NET 1 Timothy 4:11-12 Command and teach these things. 12 Let no one look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in your speech, conduct, love, faithfulness, and purity.
NET 1 Timothy 5:20 Those guilty of sin must be rebuked before all, as a warning to the rest.
NET Hebrews 13:17 Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they keep watch over your souls and will give an account for their work. Let them do this with joy and not with complaints, for this would be no advantage for you.
- "submit" here means yield to authority
I would say the Greek in this verse is not enough to give you a definitive answer one way or the other.The discussion is about folks using the verses in the OP to justify Lording it over their wives.
My question is does the text in the Greek sustain this action ?
I already did. Fairly in-depth actually.I would be keen for you to offer your thoughts on the Greek.
Answered already. Since you see force & service as abuse and slavery, I guess that's what you mean by "Lording it over".The discussion is about folks using the verses in the OP to justify Lording it over their wives.
My question is does the text in the Greek sustain this action ?
I already did. Fairly in-depth actually.
Answered already. Since you see force & service as abuse and slavery, I guess that's what you mean by "Lording it over".
Since the wife is commanded to submission, I'll leave it for you to determine what the husband's leadership is to look like.
Eh....Since you see force & service as abuse and slavery
Eh? Can't really respond to that. Detailed responses don't seem to mean much anyway.Eh....
When did I say that ???
Eh? Can't really respond to that. Detailed responses don't seem to mean much anyway.
BTW, I skimmed the article again. You'll note that the author only posts details for the "Simple Passive" and does not mention the "Causative/Permissive Passive" that Wallace lists. Again, I'd pass on the article.
Good luck on your search.
Christians are to pick up their cross, deny themselves, and follow Jesus. Christians are to love God with everything they got, and they are to love all people (even their enemies). We are not our own. We are bought and paid for with a price. John the Baptist said I must decrease and He must increase. Less of me, and more of Christ. Christ and or God is love. So this rules out any bad type of submission. Any or all submission would be in loving God according to His Word, and in loving others according to His Word. If the husband is demanding his wife to fix the towels or she is going to get a beat down or she will be yelled at, then there is a problem of the husband not being loving in view of how God wants us to love. The husband should show his love for his wife in him serving her as Christ gave himself to the church. The husband should be willing to love his wife as Christ loves the church. But the church is not above Christ. Nor does the church give commands to Christ anymore than the wife can command the husband as her wearing the pants of the house (Making all the head and big important decisions for the family or the household - while the husband plays subordinate always and says “Yes” to whatever the wife says). Remember, love is the key in that word submit and it is focused on God’s plan and design for our life and not selfish human motives or sin. Submit in this sense would include love and it is not demanding but more of a guiding both of their paths together as one flesh to worship God and to spread their love to all people (Including their enemies). They are to function as one flesh In submission to God and or Christ (In love).Hi there,
The matter of understanding the Greek word in reference to submission in this and other passages needs some discussion.
I understand the passive voice in the Greek has no english equivalent.
Can someone clearly and simply explain what was meant so as to correct the common mis-understanding that emphases servitude.
Let's correct together this common error.
Wives and Husbands
22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.
25 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, 26 that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27 so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.[a] 28 In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, 30 because we are members of his body. 31 “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” 32 This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church. 33 However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.
Yes - this is a pretty good summary BH...Christians are to pick up their cross, deny themselves, and follow Jesus. Christians are to love God with everything they got, and they are to love all people (even their enemies). We are not our own. We are bought and paid for with a price. John the Baptist said I must decrease and He must increase. Less of me, and more of Christ. Christ and or God is love. So this rules out any bad type of submission. Any or all submission would be in loving God according to His Word, and in loving others according to His Word. If the husband is demanding his wife to fix the towels or she is going to get a beat down or she will be yelled at, then there is a problem of the husband not being loving in view of how God wants us to love. The husband should show his love for his wife in him serving her as Christ gave himself to the church. The husband should be willing to love his wife as Christ loves the church. But the church is not above Christ. Nor does the church give commands to Christ anymore than the wife can command the husband as her wearing the pants of the house (Making all the head and big important decisions for the family or the household - while the husband plays subordinate always and says “Yes” to whatever the wife says). Remember, love is the key in that word submit and it is focused on God’s plan and design for our life and not selfish human motives or sin. Submit in this sense would include love and it is not demanding but more of a guiding both of their paths together as one flesh to worship God and to spread their love to all people (Including their enemies). They are to function as one flesh In submission to God and or Christ (In love).
It should be natural for a wife to want to follow their husband because he is worthy of her love. The husband should love in his words, his mind, his heart, and his deeds involving his wife (with the husband’s primary love being Christ first in all things). This is what it would mean to be worthy of submitting. It’s not some kind of bad abuse by men going on here where he demands and she must follow no matter what blindly. Obviously a woman can tell if a husband is truly loving and following Jesus (Whereby she would want to submit to him in following the Lord and glorifying God in this life). But if the husband is like the guy from “Sleeping with the Enemy,” film: Yeah… that’s not what it is talking about. God wants us to love (and that love is shown forth in our behavior, words, thoughts, and deeds). We speak kindly and respect one another. We pray for one another. We care for one another deeply. We love each other by serving each other in love. We want the best for each other by worshiping God properly and loving others to the fullest. But there does need to be a submission to God’s Word by both the husband and wife. If not, they are in rebellion against the Lord. So the issue is not with the word ”submit.” The word was never meant to be absent of not including love because a true Christian will have the outflow of God’s love spilling out from them from the Lord living in them.
1 Corinthians 13 on love would be in view of the word “submit.“. If the couple does not have this in view, they will fail and or fall. They must have the love of Christ each to make it work with the husband being the head of the household. Again, he is not a task master, but a loving guide worthy of being followed. For the husband has each of their best interest’s at heart in following the LORD according to His Word. The moment the husband does something that is not according to God’s Word, he disqualifies himself as being a proper head of the family in following the Lord in love. Submit has the idea of love included in following God according to His Word. It’s not a husband yelling orders at his wife like in the military. Everything would be done in love In this type of submission, and it would be natural for a wife to want to submit to her husband in making big decisions in life in following the LORD, and it would not be forced. Of course the husband is not on his own making the decisions. He is in submission to Christ (God). If the husband is in submission to God or Christ, then the wife is not being abused but set free from the enslavements of this world and being set free from the Prince of the power of the air. We will either be a slave to sin, or a slave to righteousness according to Romans 6:17-18. I have chosen to be set free from being a slave to Satan’s kingdom and be in service or enslavement to God (Because God cares and loves me). Satan only comes to kill, steal, and destroy. The moment we want to do our own thing and or exalt ourselves above God and or His design is to fall back to the old man and Satan’s kingdom. Satanism teaches, “Do What Thou Wilt.” But such freedom is not any kind of freedom at all.
Both the couple should be focused on loving others (Like helping the poor, spreading the gospel, loving the brethren in their actions and not just in word only). If they focus on loving God and others and focus less on themselves, then the word “submit” takes on entirely different dynamic. It is no longer abusive but it is a part of God’s design in spreading love to God and others. True Christianity (in abiding in Christ) is about being selfless and not being selfish. It’s seeking the other’s well being. We spread the good news to help people to be saved spiritually. We preach the Word to guide God’s people to stay the course with the LORD. We help God’s people in need because they are our true friends and we genuinely care for them and love them and don’t want to see them struggle. We help the poor because it is as if we are doing it to our Lord Jesus Christ Himself. We love our enemies and we do good to them. How much more would we do for our own wives and family? So much more.
Remember, Jesus washed the disciples feet. Jesus served them.
Jesus’ whole life was in service. He followed God the Father in everything He said so as to suffer for us and to die in our place because He loved us so much. We are to pick up our cross, and follow Jesus. This is love. Obeying God is love. Disobeying God is akin to another wrong kingdom. So don’t reject the word “submit” here in God’s Word. It does mean what it says but love is the dynamic difference that changes our understanding on that word. There is no abuse when love is added to the equation to the word “submit.”
All glory to the Lord Jesus Christ, my friend.Yes - this is a pretty good summary BH...
It’s Ephesians 5:21-23, and not Galatians 5:21-23.So the verses in the OP (Gal:5 21-23) should not be quoted by a husband to control a wife...
One Christian movie that beautifully displays the sacrifce of love involving a Christian family is PolyCarp.Yes - this is a pretty good summary BH...
So the verses in the OP (Gal:5 21-23) should not be quoted by a husband to control a wife...
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