Help with 2Tim 1:7

Carl Emerson

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Friends, I am puzzled by the common rendering of this verse referring to a 'sound mind' when the Greek text refers to 'self control'.

I am guessing that some popular translation presented this inaccurate alternative and it stuck.

Comments appreciated.
 

solid_core

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Friends, I am puzzled by the common rendering of this verse referring to a 'sound mind' when the Greek text refers to 'self control'.

I am guessing that some popular translation presented this inaccurate alternative and it stuck.

Comments appreciated.

Seems that only KJV line translated it like "sound mind".

New International Version
For the Spirit God gave us does not make us timid, but gives us power, love and self-discipline.

New Living Translation
For God has not given us a spirit of fear and timidity, but of power, love, and self-discipline.

English Standard Version
for God gave us a spirit not of fear but of power and love and self-control.

Berean Study Bible
For God has not given us a spirit of timidity, but of power, love, and self-control.

Berean Literal Bible
For God has not given us a spirit of cowardice, but of power, and of love, and of self-control.

New American Standard Bible
For God has not given us a spirit of timidity, but of power and love and discipline.

Christian Standard Bible
For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but one of power, love, and sound judgment.

Contemporary English Version
God's Spirit doesn't make cowards out of us. The Spirit gives us power, love, and self-control.

Good News Translation
For the Spirit that God has given us does not make us timid; instead, his Spirit fills us with power, love, and self-control.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
For God has not given us a spirit of fearfulness, but one of power, love, and sound judgment.

International Standard Version
For God did not give us a spirit of timidity but one of power, love, and self-discipline.

New King James Version
For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.

King James Bible
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.


NET Bible
For God did not give us a Spirit of fear but of power and love and self-control.

New Heart English Bible
For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but of power and love and self-discipline.
 
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For God did not give us a spirit of timidity (of cowardice, of craven and cringing and fawning fear), but [He has given us a spirit] of power and of love and of calm and well-balanced mind and discipline and self-control.

If this version is correct, it may mean that the phrase is broad enough to encompass both meanings.
full
 
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Christsfreeservant

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Friends, I am puzzled by the common rendering of this verse referring to a 'sound mind' when the Greek text refers to 'self control'.

I am guessing that some popular translation presented this inaccurate alternative and it stuck.

Comments appreciated.

Thayer's Greek:
1. an admonishing or calling to soundness of mind, to moderation and self-control: Josephus, Antiquities 17, 9, 2; b. j. 2, 1,3; Appendix, Pun. 8, 65; Aesop fab. 38; Plutarch; (Philo, legg. alleg. 3, 69).

2. self-control, moderation (σωφρονισμοι τινες ἤ μετανοιαι τῶν νέων, Plutarch, mor., p. 712 c. i. e. quaest. conviv. 8, 3): πνεῦμα σωφρονισμοῦ, 2 Timothy 1:7, where see Huther; (but Huther, at least in his later editions, takes the word transitively, equivalent to correction (R. V. discipline); see also Holtzmann at the passage).
 
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JIMINZ

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For God did not give us a spirit of timidity (of cowardice, of craven and cringing and fawning fear), but [He has given us a spirit] of power and of love and of calm and well-balanced mind and discipline and self-control.

If this version is correct, it may mean that the phrase is broad enough to encompass both meanings.
full

To me it sounds more like they were attempting to definitely encompass both meanings without offending either, more like a finding of the middle ground that all parties could agree on.
 
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JIMINZ

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That it kind of a deception, when that isn't all there was to it.

SOUND MIND:
G4995
σωφρονισμός
sōphronismos
so-fron-is-mos'
From G4994; discipline, that is, self control: - sound mind.

G4994
σωφρονίζω
sōphronizō
so-fron-id'-zo
From G4998; to make of sound mind, that is, (figuratively) to discipline or correct: - teach to be sober.

G4998
σώφρων
sōphrōn
so'-frone
safe (sound) in mind, that is, self controlled (moderate as to opinion or passion): - discreet, sober, temperate.


As I see it, all of these things used in other Translations and in the Definitions from the Strongs' are what the SOUND MIND is actually comprised of.

Remember, in the beginning of the verse itself it clearly says, what God did not give us, then it lists the things God Did give us.

2 Tim. 1:7
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear;

but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

But what God did give us, was a Sound Mind.
Not Self control.
Not Self discipline.


God Gave us the Mind of Christ.
Is the Mind of Christ a Sound Mind, or is it a mind of Self control and Self discipline?

The Power of the Holy Spirit gives us Power, and Love which come directly from God and Christ through the working of the Holy Spirit, why then would they give us SELF Control, SELF Discipline rather than a SOUND MIND?

1 Cor. 2:16
For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him?

But we have the mind of Christ.



 
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com7fy8

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In Strong's 4995 entry, it says self-control and discipline. But this word comes from

4994 - to make sound in mind, or discipline, or correct - - which is from

4998 - safe in mind - - which is from a combination of >

4982 - safe, to save, deliver, protect

and 5424 - this one is not clear, to me > it seems to have to do with to rein in, and feelings and mind.

So, if it does mean self-control, this also would mean soundness. And, as I understand JIMINZ to say, below, we do not want to just be controlling our own selfish selves!!

The Power of the Holy Spirit gives us Power, and Love which come directly from God and Christ through the working of the Holy Spirit, why then would they give us SELF Control, SELF Discipline rather than a SOUND MIND?
"Perfect love casts out fear," we have in 1 John 4:18. So, this love is almighty of God's power to cast out fear; so this love in the Holy Spirit will give a person control and soundness which God shares with the person.

"the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus." (in Philippians 4:6-7)

So, likewise, God's peace is almighty to guard our minds. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of this peace.

So, yes we have a sound mind, in God's peace. And if we have self-control, this means God's self-control which is being shared with us, I would say.
 
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Carl Emerson

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That it kind of a deception, when that isn't all there was to it.

SOUND MIND:
G4995
σωφρονισμός
sōphronismos
so-fron-is-mos'
From G4994; discipline, that is, self control: - sound mind.

G4994
σωφρονίζω
sōphronizō
so-fron-id'-zo
From G4998; to make of sound mind, that is, (figuratively) to discipline or correct: - teach to be sober.

G4998
σώφρων
sōphrōn
so'-frone
safe (sound) in mind, that is, self controlled (moderate as to opinion or passion): - discreet, sober, temperate.


As I see it, all of these things used in other Translations and in the Definitions from the Strongs' are what the SOUND MIND is actually comprised of.

Remember, in the beginning of the verse itself it clearly says, what God did not give us, then it lists the things God Did give us.

2 Tim. 1:7
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear;

but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

But what God did give us, was a Sound Mind.
Not Self control.
Not Self discipline.


God Gave us the Mind of Christ.
Is the Mind of Christ a Sound Mind, or is it a mind of Self control and Self discipline?

The Power of the Holy Spirit gives us Power, and Love which come directly from God and Christ through the working of the Holy Spirit, why then would they give us SELF Control, SELF Discipline rather than a SOUND MIND?

1 Cor. 2:16
For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him?

But we have the mind of Christ.


Yes that is my take also...

Thank you all for so many helpful comments.
 
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Richard T

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Here is the listing from the "Complete Word Study Dictionary."
sōphronismós; gen. sōphronismoú, masc. noun from sōphronízō <G4994>, to discipline, correct. Self-discipline, sobriety, sound mind, sound judgment (2 Tim. 1:7).

Perhaps God is saying a sound mind, has good judgement, that includes discipline n the ways of God?
 
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Peter J Barban

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Aside from Greek lexical aids, study how the word is used in context.

2 Timothy 1
"6For this reason I remind you to fan into flame the gift of God, which is in you through the laying on of my hands. 7For the Spirit God gave us does not make us timid, but gives us power, love and self-discipline. 8So do not be ashamed of the testimony about our Lord or of me his prisoner. Rather, join with me in suffering for the gospel, by the power of God. 9He has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time, 10but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel. 11And of this gospel I was appointed a herald and an apostle and a teacher. 12That is why I am suffering as I am. Yet this is no cause for shame, because I know whom I have believed, and am convinced that he is able to guard what I have entrusted to him until that day."

13What you heard from me, keep as the pattern of sound teaching, with faith and love in Christ Jesus. 14Guard the good deposit that was entrusted to you—guard it with the help of the Holy Spirit who lives in us.


From this, we can surmise that Timothy was acting timidly because he did not want to suffer or be shamed for preaching the Gospel as Paul was. Paul reminds Timothy that there is no shame in suffering for Christ and that the Holy Spirit gives us three things to overcome our timidity:
δυνάμεως: power
ἀγάπης: love
σωφρονισμοῦ: [prudent behavior that fits a situation]

Thus, I think the thrust of this "sóphronismos" is not one of sound reasoning, which is rather passive, but instead one of "wisdom that leads to correct action".

"Self-discipline" itself is inadequate as a translation because it refers to restraining your basic impulses.

Paul really wants Timothy to remove his fleshly fear-based restraint, and act as led by the Holy Spirit.

Furthermore I define Biblical wisdom as:
knowing the right thing to do,
knowing the right time to do it,
knowing the right way to do it,
being willing to suffer for doing the right thing.

In short: σωφρονισμός best means "wisdom that leads to right action".
 
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icxn

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Friends, I am puzzled by the common rendering of this verse referring to a 'sound mind' when the Greek text refers to 'self control'.

I am guessing that some popular translation presented this inaccurate alternative and it stuck.

Comments appreciated.
I'm guessing the reason is because the word σωφροσύνη (a synthetic word) has two possible etymologies. From maintaining safe (σώζω) or sound the thoughts or prudence of the mind (φρόνησις) and/or from body (σώμα) and guard (φρουρέω), i.e. guarding the body. In usage, the latter etymology is more accurate to the compound meaning, i.e. self-control or temperance. Still, the first etymology is not entirely wrong either. Temperance is the safeguard of a prudent (sound) mind.

By the way, σωφροσύνη (temperance) is one of the four cardinal virtues and while Maccabees IV* is not part of the Protestant Bibles, at least it shows extensively how the word is used (first chapter).

Extracts:
3 If, then, reasoning appears to hold the mastery over the passions which stand in the way of temperance, such as gluttony and lust (...) 31 Now temperance consists of a command over the lusts. (...) 35 For the affections of our appetites are resisted by the temperate understanding, and bent back again, and all the impulses of the body are reined in by reasoning.
______
* I could post passages from other Greek literature, but I thought to keep it relevant (scriptural).
 
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Mr. M

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Here is the listing from the "Complete Word Study Dictionary."
sōphronismós; gen. sōphronismoú, masc. noun from sōphronízō <G4994>, to discipline, correct. Self-discipline, sobriety, sound mind, sound judgment (2 Tim. 1:7).
The relation to sobriety indicates "clarity of mind.
 
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Mr. M

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Seems that only KJV line translated it like "sound mind".

New International Version
For the Spirit God gave us does not make us timid, but gives us power, love and self-discipline.

New Living Translation
For God has not given us a spirit of fear and timidity, but of power, love, and self-discipline.

English Standard Version
for God gave us a spirit not of fear but of power and love and self-control.

Berean Study Bible
For God has not given us a spirit of timidity, but of power, love, and self-control.

Berean Literal Bible
For God has not given us a spirit of cowardice, but of power, and of love, and of self-control.

New American Standard Bible
For God has not given us a spirit of timidity, but of power and love and discipline.

Christian Standard Bible
For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but one of power, love, and sound judgment.

Contemporary English Version
God's Spirit doesn't make cowards out of us. The Spirit gives us power, love, and self-control.

Good News Translation
For the Spirit that God has given us does not make us timid; instead, his Spirit fills us with power, love, and self-control.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
For God has not given us a spirit of fearfulness, but one of power, love, and sound judgment.

International Standard Version
For God did not give us a spirit of timidity but one of power, love, and self-discipline.

New King James Version
For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.

King James Bible
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.


NET Bible
For God did not give us a Spirit of fear but of power and love and self-control.

New Heart English Bible
For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but of power and love and self-discipline.
Modern translations are always trying to "improve" on the King James, and yet people preface their will with the statement "being of sound mind". In other words, I was not drunk when I left my entire fortune to my cat. Brother Carl, be at peace with the soundness that comes with the "mind of Christ".
 
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solid_core

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Modern translations are always trying to "improve" on the King James, and yet people preface their will with the statement "being of sound mind". In other words, I was not drunk when I left my entire fortune to my cat. Brother Carl, be at peace with the soundness that comes with the "mind of Christ".
I am not into KJV Onlyism. And I do not think that modern translations are trying to "improve KJV", I think that modern translations translate from Greek texts.
 
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Reborn1977

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Friends, I am puzzled by the common rendering of this verse referring to a 'sound mind' when the Greek text refers to 'self control'.

I am guessing that some popular translation presented this inaccurate alternative and it stuck.

Comments appreciated.

People too often attempt to limit the application of God's Word to a very narrow degree. God's Word is alive and every working in our life. A great deal of the Scriptures falls under what is referred to as "The Law of Double Reference" which means the Scripture can apply to several different groups of people, at different times in history, and/or in different ways.

The words "sound mind" mean much more than just self-control. In our translations of the Bible, we often attempt to place one single word in the place of what is actually an entire concept in the Greek or Hebrew language. This often narrows our sense of understanding that the verse(s) can apply in several different ways. To be of sound mind means to be stable in many areas of life.

Reflect on the definitions below.



For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.

2 Timothy 1:7 NKJV


“the spirit” =

4151. a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or a breeze; by anal. or fig. a spirit, i.e. (human) the rational soul, (by impl.) vital principle, ment. disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, demon, or (divine) God, Christ’s spirit, the Holy Spirit:— ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind.



“of fear” =

1167. from 1169; timidity:fear.

1169. (dread); timid, i.e. (by impl.) faithless:fearful.


tim·id [tímmid] = unassertive: demonstrating a lack of courage or self-assurance

nervousness, shyness, fearfulness, timorousness, diffidence[hesitancy], coyness[ wariness and introversion], bashfulness, reticence[uncommunicativeness], faint-heartedness, cowardice, tentativeness, apprehension, apprehensiveness, hesitancy



“of power” =

1411. from 1410; force (lit. or fig.); spec. miraculous power (usually by impl. a miracle itself):— ability, abundance, meaning, might (-ily, -y, -y deed), (worker of) miracle (-s), power, strength, violence, mighty (wonderful) work.

1410. to be able or possible:— be able, can (do, + -not), could, may, might, be possible, be of power.



“of love” =

26. from 25; love, i.e. affection or benevolence; spec. (plur.) a love-feast:(feast of) charity ([-ably]), dear, love.

25. to love (in a social or moral sense):— (be-) love (-ed).


benevolence =

1. kind: showing kindness or goodwill

2. charitable: performing good or charitable acts and not seeking to make a profit

kind, caring, compassionate, generous, giving, kindly, benign[gentle], munificent, altruistic[unselfish]



“of a sound mind” =

4995. from 4994; discipline, i.e. self-control:sound mind.

4994. from 4998; to make of sound mind, i.e. (fig.) to discipline or correct:teach to be sober.

4998. from the base of 4982 and that of 5424; safe (sound) in mind, i.e. self-controlled (moderate as to opinion or passion):— discreet, sober, temperate.

4982. safe); to save, i.e. deliver or protect (lit. or fig.):— heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be (make) whole.

5424. (to rein in or curb; comp. 5420); the midrif (as a partition of the body), i.e. (fig. and by impl. of sympathy) the feelings (or sensitive nature; by extens. [also in the plur.] the mind or cognitive faculties):— understanding.

5420. apparently a strengthening form of the base of 5424; to fence or inclose, i.e. (spec.) to block up (fig. to silence):— stop.


sober =

abstemious[self-denying], clear-headed, temperate[pleasant], teetotal, moderate, restrained, serious, somber, solemn, thoughtful, calm, grave, unexcited, unruffled, subdued, restrained, severe, sedate, staid[demure]


temperate =

restrained, self-controlled, controlled, moderate, reasonable, mild, measured, reserved, muted, clement[soft], pleasant, comfortable
 
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I am not into KJV Onlyism. And I do not think that modern translations are trying to "improve KJV", I think that modern translations translate from Greek texts.
Actually many of them do not. Ironically many of them use the texts that were originally used for the KJV.
 
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