Help needed! What is Faith?

[Sojourner<><]

>It's trust that requires an object to focus on.

Please describe a trust that doesn't require an object to focus on.

Irrational trust. For example: gambler's fallacy. Joe has watched all of his friends purchase lotto tickets without any luck. He earnestly believes that he's due for a win and so he buys several hundred tickets.

 

[SonOfSophroniscus]

Yes, because the only reason you are defending experience having worked before, is because trusting in experience has worked before.

Are you sure? If I sat down in a particular chair a hunred different times but I never developed any trust that the chair could hold my weight, wouldn't that be irrational?

 

[Filina]

Real faith it's a gift of God.

 

[SonOfSophroniscus]

Do you mean that there are different kinds of faith, namely 'real' and 'unreal'?

Real faith it's a gift of God.

 

[TruthMiner]

This is yet another fine answer, let us see if you know what faith is, and thus are able to tell whether a thing possesses it or not.



Of course, we believe true things because they are necessarily true. Yet as I earlier remarked, the thing in the universe with possession of every possible truth is God. Now, if we were to approach a thing and ask to whom it was servile, the more things to which it is obedient necessarily increases its servility. By this, it would seem that an all-powerful being is the most servile in the universe (which he created). This cannot be right :o



This is a funny thing, because the things told to us by Jesus also come from Christ. If Jesus said something, you would most certainly ask what makes it true. "Jesus Christ", he might say, and you might say "Well, why does that make it true?", to which he would say "Well, I am the truth", which is claimed to be true in virtue of Jesus Christ being the truth, which is eminently circular and vacuous. And yet I still think you are playing joker's tricks upon me, TruthMiner.



Unless that person knows nothing of Jesus Christ, meaning he would know nothing of truth, or that 2+2=4, the moon is the earth's satellite, and so on.

You have entirely missed the point by presuming faith in conceptual truth is something that has no use. The POINT here is that Christian faith is faith in a person, not faith in things about a person. Faith as obedience to conceptual truth is one thing (like believing the gospel message or Bible to be true); Faith as obedience to our Truth from God - Jesus Christ - is quite another. NOBODY will be saved by doing the former. All the former does is point to the latter. Apparently, you want the former to be the end all be all. It isn't. It is just a sign on the road point to the reality - Christ our Truth.

 

[SonOfSophroniscus]

And yet you refuse to answer my question, you most amazing fellow. You posit the existence of different kinds of faith, and yet cannot tell me the common form which they all share, for them to be things of 'faith'!

I know that a person cannot talk of a thing which they know nothing, and if they know nothing of this thing then they cannot attribute it as a property to other things. You seem to possess a great abundance of what faiths are, but tell me, by what is this thing 'faith'?

You have entirely missed the point by presuming faith in conceptual truth is something that has no use. The POINT here is that Christian faith is faith in a person, not faith in things about a person. Faith as obedience to conceptual truth is one thing (like believing the gospel message or Bible to be true); Faith as obedience to our Truth from God - Jesus Christ - is quite another. NOBODY will be saved by doing the former. All the former does is point to the latter. Apparently, you want the former to be the end all be all. It isn't. It is just a sign on the road point to the reality - Christ our Truth.

 

[TruthMiner]

And yet you refuse to answer my question, you most amazing fellow. You posit the existence of different kinds of faith, and yet cannot tell me the common form which they all share, for them to be things of 'faith'!

I know that a person cannot talk of a thing which they know nothing, and if they know nothing of this thing then they cannot attribute it as a property to other things. You seem to possess a great abundance of what faiths are, but tell me, by what is this thing 'faith'?

You babble.

Faith in words images about Jesus is not the same as faith in the person Jesus.

Can you comprehend that much right now?

 

[SonOfSophroniscus]

Don't dismiss my argument simply because you cannot tell me of this thing that you claim to possess knowledge of, my good man. If it wasn't clear to you, then let me elaborate.

There many things which are faithful.
But each of these things are faithful by Faith.
Therefore, there is a common characteristic which all faithful things participate in: Faith.

It is knowledge of this characteristic that I wish for [so that whenever I perform an act, I can compare it to this criteria and see whether it is faithful or not], and you seem unable to present an answer that passes muster.

You babble.

Faith in words images about Jesus is not the same as faith in the person Jesus.

Can you comprehend that much right now?

 

[fwiwwl]

[FONT=&quot]To interject my personal babble, Faith is not a positive-mental-attitude! It is not cerebral but Spiritual. It can only be obtained from the Word of God! Through abiding in Him alone. When it comes to “real faith,” you thinker is a stinker! Babble out![/FONT]

 

[TruthMiner]

Don't dismiss my argument simply because you cannot tell me of this thing that you claim to possess knowledge of, my good man. If it wasn't clear to you, then let me elaborate.

There many things which are faithful.
But each of these things are faithful by Faith.
Therefore, there is a common characteristic which all faithful things participate in: Faith.

It is knowledge of this characteristic that I wish for [so that whenever I perform an act, I can compare it to this criteria and see whether it is faithful or not], and you seem unable to present an answer that passes muster.

This "thing" is Christ himself.

 

[SonOfSophroniscus]

Remarkable, my most excellent fellow. Tell me, do you truly believe that the definition of faith is 'Christ himself'?

This "thing" is Christ himself.

 

[TruthMiner]

Remarkable, my most excellent fellow. Tell me, do you truly believe that the definition of faith is 'Christ himself'?

You asked about knowledge not faith.

"this thing that you claim to possess knowledge of"

And surely you can understand know how faith is obedience to truth for what is faithfulness but obedience?"

"Therefore, there is a common characteristic which all faithful things participate in: Faith."

 

[SonOfSophroniscus]

"This thing that you claim to possess knowledge of; Faith" would have been the correct interpretation, however.

What do you mean when you say that 'Faith is obedience to truth'?

You asked about knowledge not faith.

"this thing that you claim to possess knowledge of"

And surely you can understand know how faith is obedience to truth for what is faithfulness but obedience?"

"Therefore, there is a common characteristic which all faithful things participate in: Faith."

 

[TruthMiner]

"This thing that you claim to possess knowledge of; Faith" would have been the correct interpretation, however.

What do you mean when you say that 'Faith is obedience to truth'?

I already explained that.

Do you obey the idea that 1 + 1 = 2?

 

[SonOfSophroniscus]

No, because it is impossible to obey a thing inert with regards to power, such as mathematics.

I already explained that.

Do you obey the idea that 1 + 1 = 2?

 

[TruthMiner]

No, because it is impossible to obey a thing inert with regards to power, such as mathematics.

Why?

How about "The Law?"

 

[SonOfSophroniscus]

My remarkable fellow, people do not 'obey' the law; they act in a particular fashion with regards to not breaking it. The law doesn't command people to act in a particular way, it simply prohibits certain acts.

So once again, you hold that faith is obedience?

Why?

How about "The Law?"

 

[xtreN]

Hello,

There can only be true faithfulness, peace, joy, light, hope, goodness, life and eternal oneness through LOVE (Jesus Christ).

Thank you for your question

xtreN

 

[SonOfSophroniscus]

So if there is only 'true' faithfulness, then this becomes simply 'faith'. However, this has not answered the question, my excellent fellow.

Hello,

There can only be true faithfulness, peace, joy, light, hope, goodness, life and eternal oneness through LOVE (Jesus Christ).

Thank you for your question

xtreN

 

[Sojourner<><]

So if there is only 'true' faithfulness, then this becomes simply 'faith'. However, this has not answered the question, my excellent fellow.

If faith = trust, then faithfulness is its reciprocal: it's the degree to which a person can be trusted.