Help me to understand the Trinity

[_epoh_]

Hi,

I haven't written here in a little while. I'm learning about Christianity and I'm trying to understand the Trinity.

After reading some Biblical passages, watching debates and podcasts about the subject, I'm still unsure how to grasp the concept of the Trinity. I'd like to present my thoughts and ask for feedback and corrections to help me learn.

God the Father created the Son and the Holy Spirit.

God the Father created the universe and heavens, for the Son to oversee.

The Son volunteered tocome to earth in human form, with the agreement between He and the Father that He would deliver the message and His suffering and sacrifice would be the price to atone for the sins of humankind.

Humankind can then choose to accept and take that path, as through the Son, they reach the Father.

The Son csends divine revelations and messages to humankind through the Holy Spirit.

The Father is one God, the Son is not God and neither is the Holy Spirit. They are his creations to oversee the world and humankind.​

Please correct me where needed and please provide explanations and links if possible.

Thank you.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

God the Father created the Son and the Holy Spirit.

No. they are all eternal.
Begotten and proceed are eternal processes.

I honestly don't get the "begotten" part other than expressing intimate relationship.

 

[Anthony2019]

Hi epoh and welcome to the forums!

Thought you might like to take a look at the words of the Athanasian Creed which I think explains the Trinity well. Hope you find it helpful.

"And the catholic faith is this: that we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Essence. For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one; the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is; such is the Son; and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreated; the Son uncreated; and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father unlimited; the Son unlimited; and the Holy Ghost unlimited. The Father eternal; the Son eternal; and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three eternals; but one eternal. As also there are not three uncreated; nor three infinites, but one uncreated; and one infinite. So likewise the Father is Almighty; the Son Almighty; and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties; but one Almighty. So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord; the Son Lord; and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three Lords; but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity; to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord; So are we forbidden by the catholic religion; to say, There are three Gods, or three Lords. The Father is made of none; neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created; but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten; but proceeding. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is before, or after another; none is greater, or less than another. But the whole three Persons are coeternal, and coequal. So that in all things, as aforesaid; the Unity in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity, is to be worshipped."

 

[_epoh_]

No. they are all eternal.
Begotten and proceed are eternal processes.

I honestly don't get the "begotten" part other than expressing intimate relationship.

Me too, because my understanding of "begotten" is something that was created or formed. This is why I'm thinking along the lines of the Son being created and exists eternally with the Father and Holy Spirit.

 

[Sunshinee777]

I remember when I used to have big trouble understanding it. And it’s ok, when you deepen your relationship with Jesus you will start understand it much better. It’s not really something you can fully understand by your own intelligence. It’s so much more spiritually. You will see.

 

[.Jeremiah.]

I struggled for a few years trying to understand it, but was unsuccessful before I read something.

I would be happy to give you a link to something that resolved it for me.

Since that time, the scriptures have really opened up to me.
I think this is because we cannot really understand the scriptures unless we know God first.

I would say good luck with your journey, but you don’t need luck.
You are obviously seeking to know the Lord.
The Lord said “seek and you will find”
Therefore, I’m sure you will find.

 

[Jesus is my Superhero]

I believe begotten is referring to the birth of Jesus Christ who became man, who was born of Mary and Begotten by God the Father, by the Holy Spirit. Prior to this Jesus was God of the Old Testament, But unknown as Jesus.

 

[public hermit]

Me too, because my understanding of "begotten" is something that was created or formed.

When you think of "begotten" think in terms of birth or generation. It definitely does not mean made or created. I hope that helps.

 

[elytron]

I am also interested in the Nature of God.

edit: I removed my previous text, and will continue to read rather than type in this thread. - elytron

 

[public hermit]

The begotten part is when he became a man on earth.

That makes sense. However, not to be contrary, but the orthodox position is that the Son is eternally generated by the Father. So, there never was a time the Son was not, but has always been the generated Son of the Father.

The Cappadocian Fathers, who basically hammered out the details of our orthodox understanding of the Trinity, asserted that the the only difference within the Godhead is causal. The Father is eternally not-generated, the Son is eternally generated, and the Spirit eternally proceeds. So, all three are eternally One, but causally related.

Cappadocian Fathers - Wikipedia

 

[Norbert L]

Me too, because my understanding of "begotten" is something that was created or formed. This is why I'm thinking along the lines of the Son being created and exists eternally with the Father and Holy Spirit.

"begotten" is better translated as "one and only" and "unique". Dr. Heiser has about the simplest explanation I've heard. You could also look up his public lectures about the trinity in the OT, there are several of different time lengths, most of them very long. Surprisingly it's there when you closely examine what is written.

 

[BibleBeliever1611]

Basically there is one God but three distinct persons. The trinity is called the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost. Jesus is the Word. They are all eternal and they are all God.

Here is some new preaching I found about the trinity. Independent fundamental baptist preachers are the ones you should listen to because they know the Bible really well and they only use the KJV.

 

[com7fy8]

my understanding of "begotten" is something that was created or formed.

You can create something from what is not yourself. You can make a pot from clay, a salad with lettuce. They do not have your substance, and they are not personal beings.

But if you beget someone > that someone came from you, of your own character and substance, and he or she is a personal being like you are . . . if that one is begotten by you.

The Holy Spirit shares God's own love with us >

"Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us." (Romans 5:5)

I offer that no created being can be the Spirit of God's own love. Only God Himself can be His own love, in us as the Holy Spirit.

 

[HTacianas]

Hi,

I haven't written here in a little while. I'm learning about Christianity and I'm trying to understand the Trinity.

After reading some Biblical passages, watching debates and podcasts about the subject, I'm still unsure how to grasp the concept of the Trinity. I'd like to present my thoughts and ask for feedback and corrections to help me learn.

God the Father created the Son and the Holy Spirit.

God the Father created the universe and heavens, for the Son to oversee.

The Son volunteered tocome to earth in human form, with the agreement between He and the Father that He would deliver the message and His suffering and sacrifice would be the price to atone for the sins of humankind.

Humankind can then choose to accept and take that path, as through the Son, they reach the Father.

The Son csends divine revelations and messages to humankind through the Holy Spirit.

The Father is one God, the Son is not God and neither is the Holy Spirit. They are his creations to oversee the world and humankind.​

Please correct me where needed and please provide explanations and links if possible.

Thank you.

If you want to understand the doctrine of the Trinity I recommend this article on the writings of Philo of Alexandria.

Philo of Alexandria | Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy

Begin at section 11, Doctrine of the Logos. It is not very long and is comprehensive. In short, God exists as God the Father and His two powers. One power is the creative power the Logos, the Son of God. The other power is His regent power, the Spirit. Through His creative power all things came to be. Through His regent power He rules over His creation.

The image of God is represented by the Ark of the Covenant. The two cherubim of the Ark represent the two powers, with the Father between them on the Mercy Seat. As Philo has it, to the uninitiated God appears to be three, but to the initiated He is one.

 

[HTacianas]

Me too, because my understanding of "begotten" is something that was created or formed. This is why I'm thinking along the lines of the Son being created and exists eternally with the Father and Holy Spirit.

That the son is begotten of the Father does not mean that the son was at some time "begotten". Begotten describes only the relationship between the two. Your relationship to your own father is generational, as you were begotten by your father. However you were begotten at a point in time. While the relationship between the Father and the son is generational, there was no time that the son was begotten. The relationship is the same, but the son has no beginning.

 

[1watchman]

No. they are all eternal.
Begotten and proceed are eternal processes.

I honestly don't get the "begotten" part other than expressing intimate relationship.

One can see "begotten" means God coming into the world as a man (birth from God) --as in the person of Jesus (savior) Christ (anointed of God). You may have read that Jesus was given that name when He was born in the virgin: Mary --have you read of that in the Bible? We are 'begotten' of our parents, too.
Jesus IS God in the flesh as a man. Our Creator-God is a Spirit and no man can see Him or ever will; but a "Born again" saint will see the Lord Jesus when raised ('raptured') up to Heaven. Are you redeemed? Be sure you HAVE the Lord Jesus in your heart (note John 3:16; John 14; etc.).

 

[Lukaris]

I believe Orthodox St. Thalassios ( 7th century) mentioned a clear & brief understanding of the Trinity:

“Just as the single essence of the Godhead is said to exist in 3 Persons, so the Holy Trinity is confessed to have 1 essence. We regard the Father as unoriginate because He is unbegotten, and as the source because He is the begetter of the Son and the sender forth of the Holy Spirit, both of whom are by essence from Him and in Him from all eternity. “

( #91 & 92, of a. 4th & final set of groups of 100 theological briefs “4th c.” from the Philokalia volume 2).

 

[FutureAndAHope]

Here is an article I wrote years ago on the trinity The Seven Spirits of God used to explain the Trinity explored biblically.

 

[coffee4u]

post

God the Father created the Son and the Holy Spirit.

No, God the son and God the Holy Spirit are equal to and always existing the same as the Father.
John1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

God the Father created the universe and heavens, for the Son to oversee.​

No, God the son is the creator as is the Father and the Holy Spirit.
Colossians 1:16
For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.

This is why during the creation of man God says
Genesis 1:26
Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.
Not "let me make man in my image"

The Son volunteered to come to earth in human form, with the agreement between He and the Father that He would deliver the message and His suffering and sacrifice would be the price to atone for the sins of humankind.

God knew that he would have to come to earth even before He created the world. Saying volunteer and agreement makes them sound like 2 different people talking together. The Son and the Father are one, not separate beings.
There is One God, who is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Humankind can then choose to accept and take that path, as through the Son, they reach the Father.

John 14:6
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

The Son sends divine revelations and messages to humankind through the Holy Spirit.

John 14:26
But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

The Father is one God, the Son is not God and neither is the Holy Spirit. They are his creations to oversee the world and humankind.

The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God; and yet there are not three Gods, but one God.
They were not his creations, they are all equally part of the God head from the beginning.
The Bible is very clear that both Jesus and the Holy Spirit are indeed God but distinct from one another yet while still being one.

Titus 2:13
13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ

Acts 5:3-4
3 Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4 Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.”

John 10:30
I and the Father are one.”

Colossians 2:9
For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,

Please correct me where needed and please provide explanations and links if possible.

Thank you.

I don't believe anyone can fully understand the trinity, but just to know that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are God and that God is one.

Isaiah 45:5
I am the Lord, and there is no other, besides me there is no God; I equip you, though you do not know me,

 

[Mvidi Zanzu]

Edit: Delete