Help me out here guys.

[Braunwyn]

Wrong tree --- it's the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil ---

[bible]Genesis 3:4-5[/bible]

So Eve was allowed to chew on the tree of life then? Or neither of them?

 

[omarrocks]

Evolution has been proven beyond all reasonable doubt.

An old earth has been proven beyond all reasonable doubt.

What does this say for Christianity?


How can we reconcile this with the Bible?

I'm wondering, because right now I'm at a crossroads:

Become an atheist, or an OEC.

Thoughts?

Yes it has.

Yes it has.

No comment.

The Bible is the Word of God.

Become an OEC: leave the YEC camp forever. It makes no sense.

Blessings and love.

Omar

 

[AV1611VET]

You used the term existentially. That's not in referance to existentialism?

No.

If you look into the wiki article I linked all 4 of those definitions are expounded upon in the philosophy of existentialism (from what I can tell). I don't see "time in existence" in your link unless I missed it.

If it's confusing you --- just use another word.

• Adam was 30 years old --- physically.
• Adam was 1 day old --- creationally.

 

[AV1611VET]

So Eve was allowed to chew on the tree of life then? Or neither of them?

Braunwyn, I'm starting to suspect subterfuge here, and questions asked just for entertainment value.

What do you mean by "chew on the tree of life"?

If you mean, "Was Eve allowed to eat the fruit of the Tree of Life," --- I don't know.

This tree seems to be available only to people in their glorified states, as its access will be returned to us again in the future ---

[bible]Revelation 2:7[/bible]

 

[Braunwyn]

No.



If it's confusing you --- just use another word.

• Adam was 30 years old --- physically.
• Adam was 1 day old --- creationally.

Creationally? lol C'mon now.

 

[AV1611VET]

Become an OEC: leave the YEC camp forever. It makes no sense.

I'm gonna be perfectly up-front with you guys, Omar; even if it costs me points with my brothers and sisters in Christ.

The Holy Spirit gives us the ministry of reconciliation ---

[bible]2 Corinthians 5:18[/bible]

--- and if you can't reconcile a 13.7 billion-year-universe with 6100 years of existence because it doesn't make sense to you, then I have to question just how much of this ministry of the Holy Spirit you cater to.

I can understand Atheists and Agnostics having [some] trouble with it --- but certainly not a born-again Christian.

Especially after it's been explained to them.

 

[AV1611VET]

Creationally? lol C'mon now.

Until someone comes up with a better word, I'll stick with existentially.

 

[Danyc]

I'm gonna be perfectly up-front with you guys, Omar; even if it costs me points with my brothers and sisters in Christ.

The Holy Spirit gives us the ministry of reconciliation ---

[bible]2 Corinthians 5:18[/bible]

--- and if you can't reconcile a 13.7 billion-year-universe with 6100 years of existence because it doesn't make sense to you, then I have to question just how much of this ministry of the Holy Spirit you cater to.

I can understand Atheists and Agnostics having [some] trouble with it --- but certainly not a born-again Christian.

Especially after it's been explained to them.

Um, AV, I think that 'ministry of reconciliation' is not the kind of reconciling that this thread is talking about. Or that I am talking about.

 

[Braunwyn]

Braunwyn, I'm starting to suspect subterfuge here, and questions asked just for entertainment value.

Well, sure I'm here for the entertainment. Originally I thought it was the tree of knowledge they weren't supposed to touch. Now it may be the tree of life as well. I'm just curious.

What do you mean by "chew on the tree of life"?

Eat

If you mean, "Was Eve allowed to eat the fruit of the Tree of Life," --- I don't know.

I always thought there wasn't an issue with that but as we saw a few posts ago, it may not have been on the menu for them. I don't know either.

This tree seems to be available only to people in their glorified states, as its access will be returned to us again in the future ---

Then Eve and Adam should have had access to it before the fall.

 

[Braunwyn]

Until someone comes up with a better word, I'll stick with existentially.

lol okay

 

[AV1611VET]

Um, AV, I think that 'ministry of reconciliation' is not the kind of reconciling that this thread is talking about. Or that I am talking about.

I'll me more than happy to vacate this thread --- I suspect subterfuge anyway.

 

[consol]

Is a born again Christian just a person who has changed their mind?
one minute they don't believe, the next minute they do,
who said religion was ALL IN THE MIND? well they were right, it is.

 

[AV1611VET]

Then Eve and Adam should have had access to it before the fall.

That's my point --- they may very-well have --- until after the Fall, when they lost their glorified states. Now access has to be denied them.

 

[omarrocks]

I'm gonna be perfectly up-front with you guys, Omar; even if it costs me points with my brothers and sisters in Christ.

The Holy Spirit gives us the ministry of reconciliation ---

[bible]2 Corinthians 5:18[/bible]

--- and if you can't reconcile a 13.7 billion-year-universe with 6100 years of existence because it doesn't make sense to you, then I have to question just how much of this ministry of the Holy Spirit you cater to.

I can understand Atheists and Agnostics having [some] trouble with it --- but certainly not a born-again Christian.

Especially after it's been explained to them.

Fine, be upfront; it makes a difference from the usual YEC modus operandi;

Yes He does;

Plus you have that verse horrifically out of context. The context of that verse is redemption through Christ, and our part in that. It tallies perfectly with Matthew 28:19, which is the Great Commission. That is the "ministry of reconciliation"-telling people about the way of reconciliation to God: Jesus Christ.

No I can't reconcile a 13.7 billion year old with the YEC view of 6100 years. God does not contradict reality, and the God I know is not devious in any way. The Earth is as old as looks. Simple as.

Plus, what a heinous assertion. I mean, the incorrect context was overlookable, but that comment? That's just plain wrong.

Yes, I can understand it too. Especially when you get YEC lobbyists providing their argumentum ad delirium.

My coldest regards.

 

[omarrocks]

Um, AV, I think that 'ministry of reconciliation' is not the kind of reconciling that this thread is talking about. Or that I am talking about.

Well said.

Blessings and love.

Omar

 

[omarrocks]

I'll me more than happy to vacate this thread --- I suspect subterfuge anyway.

Is it your own, perchance?

 

[Split Rock]

Picture Adam and Eve eating from that tree after the Fall, then growing old, teeth falling out, arthritis, aches and pains, bone degeneration, cancer, etc., and they can't die. What do you think they would look like today, if they lived next door to you?

You are evading my questions with this answer.
1. If there was no death before The Fall, then Adam was immortal. Why would God then need to prevent him from eating of the Tree of Life "and live for ever," if he already could not die?

2. If there was no death before The Fall why would Adam need to eat?

 

[omarrocks]

Is a born again Christian just a person who has changed their mind?
one minute they don't believe, the next minute they do,
who said religion was ALL IN THE MIND? well they were right, it is.

No. A born again Christian has the Holy Spirit dwelling within them. Thus, it's not all about the mind at all.

Blessings and love.

Omar

 

[AV1611VET]

Plus you have that verse horrifically out of context. The context of that verse is redemption through Christ, and our part in that. It tallies perfectly with Matthew 28:19, which is the Great Commission. That is the "ministry of reconciliation"-telling people about the way of reconciliation to God: Jesus Christ.

I'm familiar with the Great Commission --- why do you think I'm here? And surely you're not telling me that if anyone has any questions concerning God, we can't answer because this ministry of reconciliation applies only to the Gospel message?

No I can't reconcile a 13.7 billion year old with the YEC view of 6100 years.

I can, though --- and so can my wife --- and so can my pastor, and so can his wife, and so can most in our church, etc.

I will admit though, that my pastor is YEC, with Embedded Age explanations; whereas I'm Embedded Age, with YEC explanations; but that doesn't cause us to disfellowship at all.

Yes, I can understand it too. Especially when you get YEC lobbyists providing their argumentum ad delirium.

Is that what you call a viable explanation to this universe? An arguementum ad delirium?

 

[AV1611VET]

2. If there was no death before The Fall why would Adam need to eat?

I don't know.

I could venture a guess and say because He knew we were going to fall; and so He created us in a way that we could live in this fallen state --- for awhile anyway.

However, it's clear we are going to be eating in Heaven as well.

It's interesting to note too that in every appearance Jesus made to His disciples after His resurrection --- they ate.