Help me find a verse!

[SG9]

The Holy scriptures cannot contradict the law of God and they all should make good sense at least. The ultimate, Job 5:23 leaves us with two choices then,

1) verse 23 is literal, the rocks and the beast of the field are literal, and Job talks to rocks.
2) verse 23 is an allegoric sentence and the stones and the beasts are symbols, and Job did not talk to rocks.

Checkmate

 

[St_Worm2]

Yes, you make a good point about misinterpretations, and this was in mind when I read your posts. This is why I'm concerned for the sake of the Bible.

By your words, the stones are allegorical and I can agree with the Biblical history. The stones are then symbolic as you described their parallel. I fail to see how this supports your argument about the beasts of the field, which you believe are literal beasts of a non-human form; in fact it's contrary, you say one thing and then another? The stones are symbols and the beasts are not? I don't get it, I can't see how this is possible. Thanks

Edit, please continue your story about the stones and tell us about the beasts of the field, keeping in mind that by your theology they must be literal beasts and may not be symbolic in any form. Good luck

Good luck ..

I will only say this, for some reason you think this all comes down to what you believe vs what I believe, but that's not it at all. This actually boils down to what you believe vs what the church teaches and believes concerning Creation (and you are WAY outside the pale of orthodoxy with this one .. )

But hey, you are free to believe whatever you like and, as they say, "anything is possible" ..

 

[SG9]

Good luck ..

I will only say this, for some reason you think this all comes down to what you believe vs what I believe, but that's not it at all. This actually boils down to what you believe vs what the church teaches and believes concerning Creation (and you are WAY outside the pale of orthodoxy with this one .. )

But hey, you are free to believe whatever you like and, as they say, "anything is possible" ..

Thanks, but I miss your point about some sort of competition between you and I? That is rhetoric and I assure you it's about facts that I have clearly presented with a Checkmate. Stop stalling, it's your move. I'm asking for your proof that will disprove Job 5:23 beasts of the field to be symbolic figures. You started the story with the stones but there are also beasts in the same field. You know the question well by now, I'm sure. Thanks

I might remind you that Job 5:23 is Holy Scripture and it presents you with a checkmate. It's not what I believe anymore, really?

 

[St_Worm2]

The Holy scriptures cannot contradict the law of God and they all should make good sense at least. The ultimate, Job 5:23 leaves us with two choices then,

1) verse 23 is literal, the rocks and the beast of the field are literal, and Job talks to rocks.
2) verse 23 is an allegoric sentence and the stones and the beasts are symbols, and Job did not talk to rocks.

Checkmate

Checkmate ..

Once again, Job's not the one talking in Job 5, it's Eliphaz (just FYI).

As to the point you're trying to make, what you're saying is that the one hard and fast rule of Biblical exegesis, even in a poetic narrative like Job, is that there can never be literal and expressive (or figurative) truth written side by side ..

What do we do with verses like the one below then ..

Come, let us worship and bow down; Let us kneel before the Lord our Maker. For He is our God, and we are the people of His pasture, and the sheep of His hand." Psalm 95:6-7
​

 

[St_Worm2]

Thanks, but I miss your point about some sort of competition between you and I? That is rhetoric and I assure you it's about facts that I have clearly presented with a Checkmate. Stop stalling, it's your move. I'm asking for your proof that will disprove Job 5:23 beasts of the field to be symbolic figures. You started the story with the stones but there are also beasts in the same field. You know the question well by now, I'm sure. Thanks

I might remind you that Job 5:23 is Holy Scripture and it presents you with a checkmate. It's not what I believe anymore, really?

There is no checkmate. This is not a competition between you and me, and I don't post here to win an argument. We are done however!

 

[SG9]

There is no checkmate. This is not a competition between you and me, and I don't post here to win an argument. We are done however!

I'm sorry to see you leave the discussion. I don't know why you repeat what I just said and objectively. I said that it's not what I believe anymore, and this should give you a hint that I don't believe that there's a competition and it can't possibly be what I say when the scriptures present you with a challenge. How's that word? I didn't mean to give you the idea that there was a chessboard in front of you, I didn't think that you would believe it, so I simply used the term, 'checkmate'. Did you really think that we were playing a real game?

It's expression, and it won't hold your weight when climbing out of a window. The substance is in the scripture and you can clearly read just like any person that the stones and the beasts are both in the same field and used as symbols, and that are identified in verse 23 of Job chapter 5. The scripture speaks of both the stones and the beasts involved in a covenant being that the beasts will be at peace with them as a result of the covenant. I did say in another post that it's hardly the case when men are fighting spiritual battles with literal earthly beasts, they must be symbolic in this context. And surely, no man would make a covenant with a literal stone, neither.

You seemed to have lost focus on the point and went off about a competition when you saw the word, 'checkmate'? It certainly appears that it's God's way of providing positive proofs so that we have many ways to check ourselves and our work. Workmen approved know what it entails and this is why I used it. You have only two choices, do you care to leave us with your decision before leaving? It's not a difficult question when you see it as it is clearly written in scripture.

I'm not trying to compete, never, I stand in defense of the plain truth and hope that when I point it out as I did in this case that people will be happy to learn as it is written in Job 5:17 "17 Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty:"

Thanks

 

[SG9]

The only problem is that the OP can't think of a particular verse - and presumably we haven't found it for them, or if so, they haven't been back to say so.

I don't understand the discussion that's taking place about creation, and don't want to contribute to it; I just want to find the verse that the OP is thinking of.

Dear friend, you have a good heart and you shouldn't be left out of knowing what this is about because it should bring you comfort when you hear the reason why this involves creation besides just being a discussion.

The story being told in Job chapter 5 and concerning the covenant made with the stones of the field and the beasts of the field are a parallel to the very covenant made on the 7th day of creation and made with the man Adam before the separation into man and woman, and they were male and female who made this covenant with God their creator, having everything to do with 'creation'.

If you keep this in mind, you should see that this and the Sabbath debates and the Creation debates and other things too all link back to the creation experience. When I stood back to examine this I see that the majority of confusion and debates are associated to the beginning of knowledge, as Gottservant just recently noted in his thread; this is a problematic area and I keep finding more evidence that links all of these problems back to the beginning where there appears to be the greatest confusion and debates.

We find the beasts of the field first mentioned in the beginning, and it's important to know who they were then so that we know who (us and them?) they are now. Thanks

 

[grom777]

I don't know if it's any help, but Job 40:15 says,
"Look at the behemoth, which I made along with you".

There may be other references; I'll see what I can find.

Thanks, I think that was it.

 

[hagios24]

Ridiculous. GOD has made man in HIS image.

This is the same like people that try to say we are gods, but the devil made that up, which resulted in the fall and sin and evil and death and suffering. And is idolatry.

What can be achieved by saying that we are beasts?

We are not animals.

This is the philosophy on which you find socialism and communism, and the counter reformation movement. People are not animals. That is a stupid idea. Nothing else can be said.

And it is blasphemy of the work of the LORD. We are the temple of HIS SPIRIT. Imagine if someone opened up a sewerage plant inside your temple. Not good. We not animals. GOD does not live inside an animal or a tree. We eat animals. And we deficate them back on the earth. Animals are food. Plants are food, not god. This is where this whole philosophy goes into, idolatry and idol worship. Now we imagine that if we are animals, then somehow we must become vegans or something, but GOD has commanded us to kill and eat animals and to eat plants. And then we deficate them onto the ground. How can GOD live inside that? He can't. GOD is holy. It is only in the imagination of men and women that they imagine fairy tale.

But rather JESUS was treated like an animal, even though HE IS THE SON OF GOD. Sacrificed like an animal, but HE IS THE GREAT JUDGE AND COUNCILLOR.

People have more respect for animals than they do for their neighbors and for strangers and for the oppressed and suffering. We are not commanded to be fickle. This is the message for all. We are not commanded to worship the thing created, that is blasphemy. We eat animals and plants. We don't worship them. That is idolatry and nonsense. And we are to have compassion for human life. If a wolf kills a human child, in this unbelievably stupid world people are more upset about the wolf being put down. How ridiculous and obscene and just plain destructive.