Help Me Debunk this Article

[Elias526]

Genesis 4:22 And Zillah, she also bare Tubalcain, an instructer of every artificer in brass and iron: and the sister of Tubalcain was Naamah.

(Almost as if God knew this "controversy" ahead of time, isn't it? )

So how many generations is that from Adam?

 

[AV1611VET]

So how many generations is that from Adam?

Six, if I added correctly ... why?

 

[Elias526]

Six, if I added correctly ... why?

Just trying to figure out when the Bible says we had iron. From this passage it looks like the iron age began around 3,000 BC. Like I said, I question if you have a good plow without iron. So even though they used iron for weapons to protect their land. They also used iron to produce food to feed people and this could cause an increase in population over the pre iron age. Today we see this with the farm tractor. We can produce a lot more food and our world population has increased because of this. An acre is the amount of land one man can plow with one farm animal on one day. Yet today 5,000 acre farms are fairly common.

 

[Herman Hedning]

I am pretty sure the mines you will find are tin. Esp in southern England are some ancient tin mines. Zinc came a little bit later on in time. Of course this was important for making the best weapons. The iron age came along soon enough. This could be important for farming also. I can not imagine they could get much plowing done with stone tools. Although I am sure they tried.

Brass and bronze can historically be intermixed:

Brass is an alloy of copper and zinc; the proportions of zinc and copper can be varied to create a range of brasses with varying properties.

In comparison, bronze is principally an alloy of copper and tin. Bronze does not necessarily contain tin, and a variety of alloys of copper, including alloys with arsenic, phosphorus, aluminium, manganese, and silicon, are commonly termed "bronze". The term is applied to a variety of brasses and the distinction is largely historical.

However, what was used during the "bronze age", was primarily a copper and tin alloy. Which would make KJV wrong calling it brass.

 

[AV1611VET]

Like I said, I question if you have a good plow without iron.

Are you saying they could beat their [iron] plowshares into swords, if they had to?

Even at a moment's notice?

I always thought that's why they used the softer brass over the harder bronze.

 

[AV1611VET]

However, what was used during the "bronze age", was primarily a copper and tin alloy. Which would make KJV wrong calling it brass.

Really?

I'll go with both being right.

It was the Bronze Age, but the Israelites used brass for their farm equipment/weapons of war.

(Probably they were laughed at by the ... higher educated for doing this, until the ... higher educated got a wake-up call.)

 

[Split Rock]

Really?

I'll go with both being right.

It was the Bronze Age, but the Israelites used brass for their farm equipment/weapons of war.

(Probably they were laughed at by the ... higher educated for doing this, until the ... higher educated got a wake-up call.)

Brass is too soft for weapons.. unless you are going against unarmored opponents with no shields. I thought the Canaanites were "elite mountain warriors?" Surely, they had armor.

 

[AV1611VET]

Brass is too soft for weapons.. unless you are going against unarmored opponents with no shields. I thought the Canaanites were "elite mountain warriors?" Surely, they had armor.

Well then, perhaps that's where the iron came in?

I don't know ... I wasn't there.

 

[Elias526]

Brass is too soft for weapons..

Brass is harder than copper and better then a stone tool. I can not find any copper knives although a lot of people are looking for them. Stone age tools were ok. Often they were made out of flint or even volcanic glass. It all comes down to who has the best weapons and who has the best tools.

 

[Herman Hedning]

Well then, perhaps that's where the iron came in?

I don't know ... I wasn't there.

A silly thing to debate, but since AV seems to hold every single word in KJV as gospel, what about this?

Brass, which is an alloy of copper and zinc, was not known till the thirteenth century. What is designated by this word in Scripture is properly copper.

 

[juvenissun]

Everything about what you said is wrong, we did not "evolve from a monkey" or any other type of primate, we share a common ancestor with an ape about 6 million years ago.

Saying that humans evolved from monkeys is the same as saying that you evolved from your cousin, when in reality, what happened was that you and your cousin shared a common ancestor three generations ago.

How does that work? Should we be modified directly from something which is not one of us? What is the name of that thing?

What you said is a real good answer to the OP. Common ancestor, do you think a non-biologist could understand this simple term?

 

[juvenissun]

Actually, you have to look at the term "monkey" in context. Creationists are always asking, "why aren't monkeys evolving into humans today?" In that context, no, we didn't evolve from (modern) monkeys.

Yes, this is another good answer to the OP.
Evolutionist has many ways to trick those who do not know science well.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Indeed ... to make science and the Bible mesh, many people allegorize the Bible; and Noah's Flood gets plutoed.

Hey, if one's interpretation of God's word, and God's actual creation, don't align, guess which one is wrong - after all, isn't man's wisdom foolishness before God?

 

[Split Rock]

Brass is harder than copper and better then a stone tool. I can not find any copper knives although a lot of people are looking for them. Stone age tools were ok. Often they were made out of flint or even volcanic glass. It all comes down to who has the best weapons and who has the best tools.

Copper is too soft for weapons and most tools, which is why it must be combined with other metals, such as tin (bronze). One can make very sharp tools/weapons with volcanic glass (obsidian), but it is brittle. Thus, the Aztecs used it as small blades on clubs or swords, rather than making entire weapons from them.

 

[AV1611VET]

Hey, if one's interpretation of God's word, and God's actual creation, don't align, guess which one is wrong - after all, isn't man's wisdom foolishness before God?

You betchum!

 

[Naraoia]

Useless talk. What you said does not help her.

It's a good deal more helpful than comments like the above.

Not blaming you. You are not a teacher. You do not know how to teach.

Neither do you.

I do teach 101 course. In that class, I use a different language to explain geology (I do correct them when they called a rock as stone), which is dramatically different from what I used in a 501 course.

Which is relevant to the present discussion how?

By the way, what is the species (of monkey) which evolved into human? Those names are impossible to remember. That should be the answer for the OP.

You quote a post in which I remind you how difficult it is to know the exact species, then you ask what this species was.

You can stop right there. It is impossible to debunk what you refuse to understand.

I only understood that to mean that we shouldn't stud our replies with jargon. Which is a pretty fair request.

 

[juvenissun]

You're doing the "good ol' boy" routine. It's a little show people put on to denigrate those they disagree with but they have no better arguments of explanations by mocking those who actually have a better understanding of a subject. It's played by people to appeal to those of little understanding, training, or education but it's used plenty by those who want to appear as "good ol' boys" who make fun of those with their "fancy schamncy" degree from those "fancy, city colleges." AV does it all the time when he condescendingly and arrogantly acts superior and mocks those who know more on the subject by using little irony-ladden phrases such as "learned men" or "wise men."

So, instead of telling people to learn more on the subject, you immediately put down those who use words differently in an academic context to make them appear arrogant or out of the touch with the "common folk," "common sense," or even reality, as you perceive it.

Whatever you said to others will affect YOU the most. So, if you are wise, say the truth, or say it with honor. You do that for your own benefit.

 

[juvenissun]

It's a good deal more helpful than comments like the above.

Neither do you.

Which is relevant to the present discussion how?

You quote a post in which I remind you how difficult it is to know the exact species, then you ask what this species was.



I only understood that to mean that we shouldn't stud our replies with jargon. Which is a pretty fair request.

It is true (too bad). But at least you can give a name which is the closest one. So the OP could understand: Oh, it is not monkey, but is "xxxxxxxxxxxxxx".

Someone (claimed to be a knowledgeable evolutionist) did thrown that name to me before. I never bother even to pronounce it.

 

[Mr Strawberry]

Whatever you said to others will affect YOU the most. So, if you are wise, say the truth, or say it with honor. You do that for your own benefit.

Is that why you talk complete rubbish all the time?

 

[Split Rock]

Yes, this is another good answer to the OP.
Evolutionist has many ways to trick those who do not know science well.

You're not really are creationist.... are you?