Help me answer this question

[DragnGT]

I have a friend that is growing in Christ and he had a question that I can't seem to answer well enough to suit him or me.

He wants to understand why the Bible says that we are sinful on a daily basis and yet we are asked to live as Jesus lived. And if God knows that we won't be able to live up to those standards, why ask us to try? If all we have to do is repent of our sins and He'll forgive us, then what's the point of even trying? It would be like parents who tell their children "These are the 20 rules that you cannot break. But if you break them and say you're sorry, we'll forgive you."

My friend isn't saved yet, I'm working on it though. I told him to read 1 John 1 & 2 and maybe it would help him some. I also explained that the point is that you see the differences between a saved person and a lost person. As a Christian, while I'm not able to live like Jesus lived, it's still my place to try and live that way and be an example to others. And the less sin in my life, the closer to God I'll grow (since God doesn't want to be around sin). And even though I know that I won't be able to live perfectly each day, God sees my effort. Personally, I see how confession can be abused and how it becomes meaningless (even for people who claim to be Christians). But where can I give him an example of God acknowledging this abuse of forgiveness?

Help me out here guys. Thanks!

 

[Audiomechanic]

In order to grow in your relationship with God, you must turn from the things of this world as Jesus did. Can we live the life that he did? Of course not. None of us is without sin. "To live as Jesus lived" is a statement that merely gives us a goal and defines what we should strive to live our lives like. Will we fail? Sure. Everyday. But the battle of becoming as close to Christ as we can become is what brings us to God and gives him pleasure (and in exchange, Blessings and rewards for us).

Hope that sums it up for your friend!

 

[Blank123]

The thing about repenting intially and accepting Christ's sacrifice on the cross as sufficient payment for sins is recognizing that we are wretched sinners and we have no hope of entering into heaven on our own righteousness(Isa. 64:4). Once we have accepted the free gift of salvation however, we become washed in the blood of the Lamb and we will stand before God clothed in the righteousness of Christ, not our own (Hebrews 10:12-14).

a good anaology for that is to look at the passover story in Exodus. Just as God's wrath passed over the houses whose doorposts were covered in the blood of the lamb, so will God's wrath pass over us when He sees us covered in the blood of the Lamb.

now once we've made that decision to be Christian, it's a given we're going to sin anyway but now we're not looking at the possibility of losing our salvation, which might be what your friend is having a problem with. We're covered by the grace of God at that point so its not possible for one little sin to steal our salvation from us. God isn't looking for perfect rulekeepers to save, and being able to follow the rules perfectly isn't what pleases Him - heck if that were the case He wouldn't have had such a big problem with the Pharisees - its faith and sincerity of heart that pleases Him (Hosea 6:6, Hebrews 11:6).

We choose to live Christlike and allow God to work in us and through us to conform us to the image of His Son because that is the natural reaction to being saved. We want to please God with our lives, we want our lives to be a thing of worship to Him.
We're still going to struggle with sin, but we won't want to live sinful lives anymore because we understand that simply does not bring glory to His name. And when we do sin, we can go boldly before the throne of grace and repent and know that we will be cleansed of all unrighteousness(1 John 1:9)

I'm sure someone else can explain this much better than I could, but I hope that helped in some way

 

[Qyöt27]

I would frame the response as this:

When you take on a commitment that you willingly go forward into and want dearly, whether it be a job or a relationship or any sort of arrangement which takes work on your part, are the good graces of the person you made the commitment to enough to give you license to not do your best to fulfill your part of the deal?

This is a concept that occurs in other religions as well. Why do Buddhists deny themselves in their quests to gain enlightenment, for instance? They're fulfilling their part of the deal. Faith takes sacrifice on the part of the believer; it's not something that gives one an easy ticket to Heaven and the matter is over and done with.

Whether they believe in Once Saved Always Saved or not, there are consequences that are directly linked to abusing grace (which would be the instance of not caring about sinning because you know you can just ask for forgiveness later; the thought may cross one's mind when they face temptation, heck they may even give in to said temptation, but usually there is a level which repels the idea that they'll go ahead just because they can be forgiven once they've crossed that line - it's the other parts of themselves that are falling at the same time, and probably are more to blame for that).

 

[GrimWolf]

Personally I would advise you to read Romans, it has a lot to say about the questions you have.

Romans 6

Dead to Sin, Alive in Christ

1What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

5If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection. 6For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7because anyone who has died has been freed from sin.
8Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.
11In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness. 14For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.

Slaves to Righteousness

15What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! 16Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted. 18You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
19I put this in human terms because you are weak in your natural selves. Just as you used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer them in slavery to righteousness leading to holiness. 20When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. 21What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! 22But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. 23For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Hope this helps.

 

[Alenci]

Yes, that is the passage that comes to mind.

In light of this, I would say that it's very true that all of us, even Christians, fall far short of God's expectations. But being freed from "slavery to sin," in my mind, means that we no longer have to rely on our own meager strength, which will continually fail us. We have a powerful ally, the Holy Spirit, which transforms us from the inside out in a way we could not hope to imitate with even our own most rigorous efforts at self-improvement. If we try, we can be "better" people - we can act good, but the Bible reminds us that what is in our hearts will always come out. It takes God to change our hearts - to make us good. Our calls to "be holy" (Leviticus 19:2, 1 Peter 1:15-16) and to "imitate God" (Ephesians 5:1-2) are calls to communion with God and receptiveness to His life. We must be receptive to the work of the Holy Spirit - but that is not a fully passive process. It is up to us to clean out our hearts and to purposefully seek out God.

 

[Alenci]

As to the question of "what's the point in even trying," that question itself is missing the point. We cannot be perfect in this life, but at least we can begin to approach it. And if someone had been justified, and his or her sins had been forgiven by the grace of God and the blood of the Lamb, one would think that that person would feel such a debt of gratitude as to WANT to "be good." That's not a Scripturally-based answer; that's a common sense one (but please do not interpret this as arrogance- it just seems common sense to me).

 

[intricatic]

The thing about repenting intially and accepting Christ's sacrifice on the cross as sufficient payment for sins is recognizing that we are wretched sinners and we have no hope of entering into heaven on our own righteousness(Isa. 64:4). Once we have accepted the free gift of salvation however, we become washed in the blood of the Lamb and we will stand before God clothed in the righteousness of Christ, not our own (Hebrews 10:12-14).

a good anaology for that is to look at the passover story in Exodus. Just as God's wrath passed over the houses whose doorposts were covered in the blood of the lamb, so will God's wrath pass over us when He sees us covered in the blood of the Lamb.

now once we've made that decision to be Christian, it's a given we're going to sin anyway but now we're not looking at the possibility of losing our salvation, which might be what your friend is having a problem with. We're covered by the grace of God at that point so its not possible for one little sin to steal our salvation from us. God isn't looking for perfect rulekeepers to save, and being able to follow the rules perfectly isn't what pleases Him - heck if that were the case He wouldn't have had such a big problem with the Pharisees - its faith and sincerity of heart that pleases Him (Hosea 6:6, Hebrews 11:6).

We choose to live Christlike and allow God to work in us and through us to conform us to the image of His Son because that is the natural reaction to being saved. We want to please God with our lives, we want our lives to be a thing of worship to Him.
We're still going to struggle with sin, but we won't want to live sinful lives anymore because we understand that simply does not bring glory to His name. And when we do sin, we can go boldly before the throne of grace and repent and know that we will be cleansed of all unrighteousness(1 John 1:9)

I'm sure someone else can explain this much better than I could, but I hope that helped in some way

Ya hit the nail on the head, and I still can't rep ya anymore.

But to elaborate on the idea of rule following / living by faith:

John 4
21Jesus declared, "Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."

The Spirit of God conforms us to the image of Jesus, to the people we should be if we weren't fallen and sinful, because it's what we should be - it's what the law of the OT was to demonstrate our lack of capacity of being by our own wills and efforts. The reason we should try to become like Christ isn't because we want to please people, but because we want to please God - through Christ, as Christ lives within us.

Galatians 2
17"If, while we seek to be justified in Christ, it becomes evident that we ourselves are sinners, does that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not! 18If I rebuild what I destroyed, I prove that I am a lawbreaker. 19For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. 20I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!"

 

[eutychus]

Aside from the previously addressed holiness issue...

God's grace covers our eternal damnation with the blood of Jesus, but God desires more than just reconciliation; he desires a life that reflects him, best to his glory and our betterment.

Deut. 6:24, Jer. 29:11-14.

 

[SarahAblaze06]

Well, all of this advice is perfectly awesome!

However, I think you guys are missing one vital piece. It does NOT say in the bible that we will sin EVERY DAY no matter what. That IS ridicuous, and that's why your friend is having a hard time understanding!

In our beginning walks with Christ we will stumble more often, and he will help us, and even if we make the same mistake over and over, he will always be there with open arms. But, as our walks with Christ grow, and we begin to love God more, we SHOULD be sinning less and less. There WILL be days when we don't sin at all. There should be FRUIT in our lives of being christians, and we ARE to be like Christ, and while we cannot strive for perfection on this earth, we CAN choose to obey Him more and more with each passing day. Just thought this needed to be said.

 

[DragnGT]

Thank you guys. If I have anymore questions, I'll let you know.

 

[Balugon]

i guess ill put my two cents in.

Its about grace. Becoming more like Jesus is a life-long process. And yea, i would have to say that living like Jesus did is a goal, not a "must be perfect this exact second change".

Frankly, i kind of laugh at a lot of things. I know my very character is sinful in many ways, but i always know its not something i can just magically *poof* and its changed. And i can almost guarantee that it isnt something that can be changed in a day. It is something that God is working on me on, and like i said, i believe it to be a lifelong process.

I dont ask for forgiveness every millisecond because i know my demeanor isnt as godly as it could be. that would be stupid. I might as well kill myself, because i dont think there is a single person who has magically poofed themselves to perfection in one instance of experiencing God. Jesus said something along the lines of "why do u call me good? Only God is good." (And guess what, there were righteous people in Jesus day, in the least Mary.)

I think an important thing to remember is, is that Jesus walked the perfect walk for us already. We arent expected to be perfect, thats part of grace. His perfect walk took the place of the perfection that we were suppose to walk in. At least in total perfection. Seeing as how it would be impossible for us to be perfect.

we are expected to walk with God, and as he works on certain areas of our life, simply to choose to say yes to God and what he is showing us, instead of continuing for some reason to go against him. As long as we are walking with him, and we dont continually entirely shut him out when its time to give stuff up (to the point where u say u arent going to change no matter what), u still techniquely are saved, though giving God the cold shoulder enough times can lead to some dangerous water because u will probably start making excuses for ur sin, and one of them being that isnt God nudging u to possibly get it out of ur life. And when u start to deny its God's voice when it is, well, thats bad news.

Anyway, besides that long response that started getting into. The reason God doesnt want Christians to sin after they get saved and accept what Jesus did for them, is because sinning is bad for us.

I mean lying, if u get caught, it can cause a lot of problems, even just for u. If u commit adultery, u could lose that girl or guy u love. If u steal, it could tear apart relationships with the person u stole from, it could get u in prison, or even killed, depending on mad the person was.

Its like a parent telling their child to not touch a hot stove, why? Simply because they said not to? No. Because the parent knows that the child will get hurt if he does, and he doenst want the child to get hurt. (but it also doesnt mean that just because the child does it, that he would be for some reason kicked out of the family).

Maybe u could use the passage, i think its in Romans, where Paul shows that Abraham was considered righteous before he was given the commandment to circumcize. Abraham was delcared righteous before law came, not after (yes, he was righteous, but the declaration came before). That is always an interesting one to ponder.