Help in answering this .. continued faith is not a requirement to maintain salvation

[twin.spin]

A Baptist that I know says: (writes)

God hates all sin. But all sin has been judged at the Cross and
therefore no sin committed by a believer can result in a loss of
salvation.

The fact that the believer possesses the imputed perfect righteousness
of God and is therefore declared justified by God precludes any
possibility of the believer losing his salvation.

The fact that the believer has been made alive and is positionally
seated with Christ in the heavenlies means that the believer cannot
lose his salvation. (Ephesians 2:5-6)

The fact that Jesus makes intercession for us means that the believer
cannot lose his salvation.

The fact that eternal life is a free gift and the gifts of God are
irrevocable means that the believer cannot lose his salvation. The
believer's salvation cannot be revoked. Period.

Regarding the argument that one must maintain his faith in order to retain his salvation, I will quote Lewis Sperry Chafer on that issue. Lewis Sperry Chafer was the founder and first president of Dallas Theological Seminary as well as Professor of Systematic Theology.

Since salvation is always and only a work of God, the only relation man can sustain to it is that of expectation toward the One who alone can undertake and accomplish it. Salvation from the guilt and penalty of sin is wrought for the unsaved the very moment he believes. It is conditioned on a solitary act of faith. Men are not saved, or kept saved, from the consequences of sins because they continue in their faith. Saving faith, as related to this the first aspect of salvation, is a completed transaction. ''For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life'' (John 3:16); ''Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life'' (John 5:24); ''Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shall be saved, and thy house'' (Acts 16:31). [Chafer, Systematic Theology, Vol. 6, p.293.]
​

Needless to say, I agree with Chafer who then goes on to write that the believer, having been saved by faith, must live by faith if he is to live a life of victory. But not in order to maintain his eternal salvation. As stated above, the believer's salvation from the penalty of sin is a completed transaction. The believer is not kept saved by continued faith, but by the power of God.

​

 

[twin.spin]

And regarding passages about falling away... he writes:

falling away does not mean what you think it means. Falling away is not falling away from your salvation, but is falling away from grace orientation and into legalism as is stated by Galatians 5:4.

Gal. 5:4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
​

The Hebrews 10 passage speaks of temporal punishment, rather than eternal punishment. Hebrews 10:26-29 goes right back to what is being addressed in Hebrews 6:4-6 which I have already told you involves Jewish believers being pressured by Judaizers to defect from the faith and revert back into Judaism. A Christian who abandons ''the assurance he had at first (Heb. 3:14) and as the writer of Hebrews already said, in effect crucifies the Son of God all over again and subjects Him to open shame as per Hebrews 6:6 (by reverting to the practices of Judaism as some were doing) is deserving of divine retribution. But it is temporal punishment, not loss of salvation that is being referred to. Divine retribution can involve punishment which is worse than immediate death. Lamentations 4: 6-9 gives an example of this as does Deut. 32:19-27

 

[Tangible]

Their error can be plainly seen in the last sentence of the first post "The believer is not kept saved by continued faith, but by the power of God."

While we would whole-heartedly agree that the believer is saved by the power of God ('alone' we would add) it is clear from this statement that they see faith as something the believer does in order to be saved, not the free gift of God that saves, but which according to the clear word of scripture may be rejected and thus salvation lost.

It's the Arminian error.

 

[Tangible]

Their error can be plainly seen in the last sentence of the first post "The believer is not kept saved by continued faith, but by the power of God."

While we would whole-heartedly agree that the believer is saved by the power of God ('alone' we would add) it is clear from this statement that they see faith as something the believer does in order to be saved, not the free gift of God that saves, but which according to the clear word of scripture may be rejected and thus salvation lost. They take 'believing' and turn it into a saving work.

It's the Arminian error.

 

[Tangible]

Hm. Edit function not working properly.

 

[Shane R]

Therefore I tell you, people will be forgiven for every sin and blasphemy, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.

And without faith it is impossible to please God, for whoever would approach him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

 

[Clare73]

A Baptist that I know says: (writes)

God hates all sin. But all sin has been judged at the Cross and
therefore no sin committed by a believer can result in a loss of
salvation.

The fact that the believer possesses the imputed perfect righteousness
of God and is therefore declared justified by God precludes any
possibility of the believer losing his salvation.

The fact that the believer has been made alive and is positionally
seated with Christ in the heavenlies means that the believer cannot
lose his salvation. (Ephesians 2:5-6)

The fact that Jesus makes intercession for us means that the believer
cannot lose his salvation.

The fact that eternal life is a free gift and the gifts of God are
irrevocable means that the believer cannot lose his salvation. The
believer's salvation cannot be revoked. Period.

Regarding the argument that one must maintain his faith in order to retain his salvation, I will quote Lewis Sperry Chafer on that issue. Lewis Sperry Chafer was the founder and first president of Dallas Theological Seminary as well as Professor of Systematic Theology.

Since salvation is always and only a work of God, the only relation man can sustain to it is that of expectation toward the One who alone can undertake and accomplish it. Salvation from the guilt and penalty of sin is wrought for the unsaved the very moment he believes. It is conditioned on a solitary act of faith. Men are not saved, or kept saved, from the consequences of sins because they continue in their faith. Saving faith, as related to this the first aspect of salvation, is a completed transaction. ''For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life'' (John 3:16); ''Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life'' (John 5:24); ''Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shall be saved, and thy house'' (Acts 16:31). [Chafer, Systematic Theology, Vol. 6, p.293.]
​

Needless to say, I agree with Chafer who then goes on to write that the believer, having been saved by faith, must live by faith if he is to live a life of victory. But not in order to maintain his eternal salvation. As stated above, the believer's salvation from the penalty of sin is a completed transaction. The believer is not kept saved by continued faith, but by the power of God.

​

Only true faith is saving faith.

True faith is never lost because it is kept by the power of God.

If one loses his faith, it was not true faith to begin with, and he was never saved in the first place.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Only true faith is saving faith.

True faith is never lost because it is kept by the power of God.

If one loses his faith, it was not true faith to begin with, and he was never saved in the first place.

This is not Lutheran doctrine. We certainly believe that believers can and do fall away.

 

[Tangible]

Only true faith is saving faith.

True faith is never lost because it is kept by the power of God.

If one loses his faith, it was not true faith to begin with, and he was never saved in the first place.

This teaching plagued me when I was a Baptist. It actually had the opposite effect that OSAS is supposed to have. Since I personally knew people who had been raised in the faith like I was, confessed the faith like I did, and lived the faith like I did, yet came to lose their faith, I had to ask myself the question - If these ones were never 'really' saved, then how can I possibly know if I'm 'really' saved?

There is no answer to this question, other than to say that those who are 'really' saved will persevere to the end. This only leads to pietism, judgmentalism, and functional works-righteousness.

 

[jonathan1971]

If these ones were never 'really' saved, then how can I possibly know if I'm 'really' saved?

That's the question the reformed dare not ask and one that Calvin said was a sin to ask. I guess they have to get to a point where if you even question your salvation it brings your salvation into question.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

That's the question the reformed dare not ask and one that Calvin said was a sin to ask. I guess they have to get to a point where if you even question your salvation it brings your salvation into question.

I think my head just 'sploded.

 

[Luther073082]

That's the question the reformed dare not ask and one that Calvin said was a sin to ask. I guess they have to get to a point where if you even question your salvation it brings your salvation into question.

I always felt that if a person questions their salvation it likely means their salvation is secure. (Presuming they have a Christian understanding of salvation)

My belief is that only a person who truely believes would likely ask such a question in the first place.

Can't say for certain, but it doesn't make much logical sense that an unbeliever would ask such a question.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

I always felt that if a person questions their salvation it likely means their salvation is secure. (Presuming they have a Christian understanding of salvation)

My belief is that only a person who truely believes would likely ask such a question in the first place.

Can't say for certain, but it doesn't make much logical sense that an unbeliever would ask such a question.

I'm not sure I agree with this.

I don't question my salvation. I know, without a doubt, that I am saved, even when I am at my lowest, even when I am the worst sinner on the face of the earth. Not because of anything I did, but because Jesus died on the cross for me.

I feel that those who doubt their salvation don't understand the nature of the sacrifice that Jesus laid down for us.

 

[Luther073082]

I'm not sure I agree with this.

I don't question my salvation. I know, without a doubt, that I am saved, even when I am at my lowest, even when I am the worst sinner on the face of the earth. Not because of anything I did, but because Jesus died on the cross for me.

I feel that those who doubt their salvation don't understand the nature of the sacrifice that Jesus laid down for us.

I find that most people who question if they are saved more or less are questioning if they believe enough. Not so much that they doubt that all their sins can be forgiven through Christ. But usually they question if they believe enough.

Which is why I think most of the time they are saved. A non believer simply has no reason to ask such a question.

That doesn't mean that anyone is necessary wrong when they know they are saved.

 

[jonathan1971]

I think my head just 'sploded.

You think that was bad? You should try reading Van Till or Norman Shepherd(sp). Shepherd, I think, was the one that came up with the, "justification by faithful obedience," thing that's so popular in reformed (Calvinist) circles nowadays.