Help, I want to get baptized!

[LOCO]

Seriously? This is the best you've got left?

It's the truth. Is that the best you got Publius?


Are we discussing your aversion to the CC or addressing the original posters question?

You didn't answer the OP question.

I have merely given the original posters an answer from the Catholic point of view, you have not answered him at all. Instead you have attacked my post.

What are you, Baptist, non-demo, answer his question from your denominations doctrine.

Give him another option instead of attacking mine and he can decide for himself, I am not here to convert the OP to Catholicism, I am here to give him information about my faith, I hope others can give him theirs and he can make his own informed decision.

 

[Radagast]

... I belong to no church, nor have I ever found one that meshes with my personal belief system...

I think that would, quite logically, prevent most churches from baptising you.

... my dedication to love God and Jesus Christ's message.

It's hard to tell, but you seem to be distinguishing between God and Jesus. Do you believe in the Trinity?

We believe in (Romans 10:8-10; 1John 4:15)
ONE God, (Deuteronomy 6:4, Ephesians 4:6)
the Father (Matthew 6:9)
Almighty, (Exodus 6:3)
Maker of Heaven and Earth, (Genesis 1:1)
and of all things visible and invisible. (Colossians 1:15-16)

And in ONE Lord Jesus Christ, (Acts 11:17)
the Son of God, (Mathew 14:33; 16:16)
the Only-Begotten, (John 1:18; 3:16)
Begotten of the Father before all ages. (John 1:2)
Light of Light; (Psalm 27:1; John 8:12; Matthew 17:2,5)
True God of True God; (John 17:1-5)
Begotten, not made; (John 1:18)
of one essence with the Father; (John 10:30)
by whom all things were made; (Hebrews 1:1-2)
Who for us men and for our salvation (1Timothy 2:4-5)
came down from Heaven, (John 6:33,35)
and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, (Luke 1:35)
and became man. (John 1:14)
And was crucified for us (Mark 15:25; 1Cointhians 15:3)
under Pontius Pilate, (John 19:6)
and suffered, (Mark 8:31)
and was buried. (Luke 23:53; 1Corinthians 15:4)
And the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures. (Luke 24:1 1Corinthians 15:4)
And ascended into Heaven, (Luke 24:51; Acts 1:10)
and sits at the right hand of the Father. (Mark 16:19; Acts 7:55)
And He shall come again with glory (Matthew 24:27)
to judge the living and the dead; (Acts 10:42; 2Timothy 4:1)
whose Kingdom shall have no end. (2 Peter 1:11)

And in the Holy Spirit, (John 14:26)
the Lord, (Acts 5:3-4)v
the Giver of Life, (Genesis 1:2)
Who proceeds from the Father; (John 15:26)
Who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; (Matthew 3:16-17)
Who spoke through the prophets. (1 Samuel 19:20 ; Ezekiel 11:5,13)

In one, (Matthew 16: 18)
holy, (1 Peter 2:5,9)
catholic, (Mark 16:15)
and apostolic Church. (Acts 2:42; Ephesians 2:19-22)

I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. (Ephesians 4:5; Acts 2:38)
I look for the resurrection of the dead, (John 11:24; 1Corinthians 15:12-49; Hebrews 6:2; Revelation 20:5)
and the life of the world to come. (Mark 10:29-30)
AMEN. (Psalm 106:48)

 

[NewUser777]

I have a huge problem, and it is simply this: I belong to no church, nor have I ever found one that meshes with my personal belief system.

This is a red flag. I have found that Christians who don't go to church are warped.

I would recommend you:

1. Make sure your belief system meshes fully with the Bible
2. Find a church who's belief system meshes fully with the Bible

When those 2 things are done, you should have no trouble getting baptized.

 

[RisingSpirit]

Believe and be Baptised is more of a command from God. He picks out the elects and at the same time shout the commands. If He picked you, you already believe and are baptised. Salvation happens when God regenerates you. Regeneration comes before belief or faith. You don't produce faith on your own and then get saved. Reformed churches can explain that to you . Other churches show you how to earn your salvation. Someone is probably teaching you how to earn your salvation and the Bible doesn't teach that.

 

[hedrick]

Yeesh, are we really do doctrinal as this? If she accepts Christ as Lord and Savior she can be baptized. I don't think she meant deist in the traditional sense. I believe many Protestant churches will accept anyone who professes faith in Christ. We certainly would (PCUSA). We have additional requirements to be an officer, but we will accept as member anyone who professes faith. I'm pretty sure many Protestant churches are the same.

The practical problem is that baptism done by many churches includes a commitment to be active in the church. That's because most Christians think that being a Christian means not just being personally "saved" but being part of the Body of Christ. There may well be churches that don't have this requirement. I simply don't know.

Most Protestant churches only authorize baptisms done by the Church, and that's typically done by a pastor. There's no theoretical reason someone else couldn't do it, but since baptism is an act of the Church, it's typically done by the leader of the congregation. I would consider baptism to be valid if it's done by any Christian, but that's kind of a gray area for Protestants. Catholics, of course, allow baptism by anyone (not even restricted to Christians, as long as they intend to do what the Church does), in order to handle situations where someone is in immediate danger of dying. However baptism by someone other than a priest is only intended for emergency situations.

 

[RisingSpirit]

... Catholics, of course, allow baptism by anyone (not even restricted to Christians, as long as they intend to do what the Church does), in order to handle situations where someone is in immediate danger of dying....

What happens when a believer dies without being "water" baptised?

 

[Publius]

Is that the best you got Publius?

The Word of God? Yes, that's the best source I can cite.

You didn't answer the OP question.

See post #2.

What are you, Baptist, non-demo, answer his question from your denominations doctrine.

I did.

 

[Harry3142]

I have a huge problem, and it is simply this: I belong to no church, nor have I ever found one that meshes with my personal belief system. I consider myself a Christian (because I believe in Jesus Christ's message and love God wholeheartedly) and a Deist (because I believe that God is evident in ALL creation throughout the universe, and easily discerned by applying one's brain and eyes to the matter).

My problem is that I want to get baptized. Firstly, I don't know where to go to get baptized, since I belong to no church. I also have no idea who can do it for me. Is it necessary that someone has to be an ordained minister (whatever that means) in order to baptize, or can anyone baptize me?

Answers would be greatly appreciated, if anyone has one for me! Thank you in advance!

Contact a Methodist or Presbyterian minister in your area, then set up an appointment and go talk with him concerning your wanting to be baptized.

In some denominations, such as the Presbyterians and Methodists, baptism is seen as merely the 'taking under their wings' of a person who either himself (or herself) wants to grow in the faith, or their parents want them to grow up under the teachings of Christianity. The baptism itself does not confer membership in that denomination, but it is seen as a welcoming into the fellowship of those who are members of that denomination. Membership itself requires that catechetical classes be taken (which I personally agree with for all church denominations), and then a confirmation ceremony be performed, where new members are welcomed into the church.

But there are other denominations, especially in the more evangelical churches, such as the Baptists, Campbellites and Pentecostals, where baptism in-and-of itself confers full membership in that denomination. From the moment you're baptized you have all the privileges and responsibilities of a person who has been a member of that same denomination for years. That's one reason why there are certain denominations which insist that a person must be baptized by immersion in order to obtain salvation. The one to be baptized goes under a nonmember, and comes back up as a full member of that denomination, thus increasing their membership rolls.

 

[TheDag]

2. Find a church who's belief system meshes fully with the Bible

impossible to do as none exist.

 

[TheDag]

What happens when a believer dies without being "water" baptised?

Catholics belie ve in three forms of naptism.
Baptism by water wgich is what we are talking about here
baptism by blood which is dying a matrys death
baptism of desire which means they would have got baptised if they had the opportunity and knew how important it was.

i don't agree with that personally

 

[TheDag]

And I believe the Bible when it says that there are certain criteria to be met before baptism and I believe the Didache when it describes the early church as attempting to meet these criteria.

So what is the criteria then according to you? how about you explain that and answer the question. All you have done is say this alone rules you out which comes from not understanding a definition of a word. Then all you have said is there are certain criteria yet you have not explained what they are. Doesn't seem like you have actually answered the question to me.

 

[LOCO]

What happens when a believer dies without being "water" baptised?

Catholics believe it is not a persons fault if they live in a remote area or village and never got to here the good news of Christ.

We believe Christ has the final decision of who will enter Heaven regardless of whether they are baptised or not. He did that when he told the thief on the cross that he would be in Heaven that day.

Also we believe that people who lived before the time of Christ have access to that. We call it baptism of desire.

Why should they be punished because they did not have the good fortune that we did in knowing about Jesus and his ultimate sacrifice for us?

 

[LOCO]

The Word of God? Yes, that's the best source I can cite.



See post #2.



I did.

Jesus is the Word of God, he is not confined to a book.

Your Post 2 is below. It did not answer the OP question. It attacked another posters viewpoint.

Yeah, and don't forget, baptism is a testimony of our having been crucified with Christ and raised with Him, and of the new nature we receive. How can you claim those things for yourself if you don't believe God interacts with us on a personal level, which deists do not?


Instead of answering the op question with your version of 'baptism' you attack all others viewpoint. Let the OP decide for himself.

 

[Publius]

Jesus is the Word of God, he is not confined to a book.

Yes, it's true that Jesus is also referred to as the Word of God. However, in this instance, I believe it's very clear that I was referring to scripture, which is call the Word of God repeatedly in scripture.

Your Post 2 is below.

No, the post below is post #4, not post #2. Post #2 is as follows:

"The problem is that there are certain requirements to be baptised.

If you're a deist, then you're disqualified from baptism on that point alone.
You say you can't find a church because none of them "mesh with your personal belief system". There are many good, Bible believing churches out there. If none of them are suitable to you, then maybe the problem isn't with the churches, but with your personal belief system.

From what little you've described here, I couldn't baptise you. "

It did not answer the OP question.

As you can see, the poster's question was addressed.

It attacked another posters viewpoint.

Actually, nothing in the post you quoted attacked anyone's viewpoint. I just agreed with another poster.

Instead of answering the op question with your version of 'baptism' you attack all others viewpoint. Let the OP decide for himself.

First of all, I didn't attack anybody's viewpoint. I just stated what baptism is and agreed with another poster.

Second, issn't it a little odd that first you say I didn't address his question and then you tell me to let him make up his own mind? Which is it? Should I respond to him or not?

 

[LOCO]

Yes, it's true that Jesus is also referred to as the Word of God. However, in this instance, I believe it's very clear that I was referring to scripture, which is call the Word of God repeatedly in scripture.



No, the post below is post #4, not post #2. Post #2 is as follows:

"The problem is that there are certain requirements to be baptised.

If you're a deist, then you're disqualified from baptism on that point alone.
You say you can't find a church because none of them "mesh with your personal belief system". There are many good, Bible believing churches out there. If none of them are suitable to you, then maybe the problem isn't with the churches, but with your personal belief system.

From what little you've described here, I couldn't baptise you. "



As you can see, the poster's question was addressed.



Actually, nothing in the post you quoted attacked anyone's viewpoint. I just agreed with another poster.



First of all, I didn't attack anybody's viewpoint. I just stated what baptism is and agreed with another poster.

Second, issn't it a little odd that first you say I didn't address his question and then you tell me to let him make up his own mind? Which is it? Should I respond to him or not?

Respond to him and him alone so he can make his own informed decision. You have responded to attacked other posters on this thread. Tell the OP what your denomination believes about baptism and then mind your own business.

You were the one who attacked my post. I stated my position and then left it at that, I respect other peoples opinions of baptism even if I disagree with it, this thread is for edification and is not the place to attack someone else's doctrine.

 

[Radagast]

I stated my position and then left it at that, I respect other peoples opinions of baptism even if I disagree with it, this thread is for edification and is not the place to attack someone else's doctrine.

I think we're getting off-topic a little here. From what I know, the Catholic Church will not perform a baptism except in the context of someone becoming fully Catholic (in the USA, the RCIA or Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults process). Is that right?

Also, the OP is a her, not a him.

 

[LOCO]

I think we're getting off-topic a little here. From what I know, the Catholic Church will not perform a baptism except in the context of someone becoming fully Catholic (in the USA, the RCIA or Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults process). Is that right?

Also, the OP is a her, not a him.

I don't appreciate people coming on an Edification thread and attacking other Christians. They should just present their viewpoint and let the new/interested Christian make up their own mind instead of attacking each others faith.

Ooops didn't realise the OP was a female.

The only requirement was/is that a person be baptised using the words, "in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit". That everything else is moot since no one is baptised into a denomination or doctrine, rather your baptism is to set you apart unto the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; therefore, it would be a valid a baptism regardless of what the denomination believed.

Catholics have different types of baptism. If we are talking about water baptism we are baptised shortly after birth usually. If they come to the faith later in life they must be baptised unless they are baptised Eastern Orthodox, Lutheran, Anglican, Baptist and a couple of other denoms.

For the Catholic Church to recognize a baptism, three conditions must be met.

1. The minister must use the trinitarian formula, that is, "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit."

2. The minister must baptise with the same intent as the Catholic Church.

3. Water must be used, and it must run. Pouring and immersion are both acceptable, but I belive that in the case of sprinking, a conditional baptism is considered prudent in most cases.

The only time the Church would consider a baptism invalid is if it were known that any of these three conditions were not met. e.g..- baptism in the name of Jesus only.

 

[Radagast]

The only requirement was/is that a person be baptised using the words, "in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit". That everything else is moot since no one is baptised into a denomination or doctrine...

Yes, but in practice, most denominations take baptism as part of becoming a member. In the case of Catholics, the process is quite complex, is it not, requiring both doctrinal and participatory commitments? (see here) You can't just rock up to the cathedral and say "baptise me."

"Baptism makes us members of the Body of Christ: 'Therefore . . . we are members one of another.' Baptism incorporates us into the Church. From the baptismal fonts is born the one People of God of the New Covenant, which transcends all the natural or human limits of nations, cultures, races, and sexes: 'For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body.'

Having become a member of the Church, the person baptized belongs no longer to himself, but to him who died and rose for us. From now on, he is called to be subject to others, to serve them in the communion of the Church, and to 'obey and submit' to the Church's leaders, holding them in respect and affection. Just as Baptism is the source of responsibilities and duties, the baptized person also enjoys rights within the Church: to receive the sacraments, to be nourished with the Word of God and to be sustained by the other spiritual helps of the Church." (Catholic Catechism, 1267 & 1269)

 

[LOCO]

Yes, but in practice, most denominations take baptism as part of becoming a member. In the case of Catholics, the process is quite complex, is it not, requiring both doctrinal and participatory commitments? (see here) You can't just rock up to the cathedral and say "baptise me."

That is not what I have said. Where did you get that conclusion from? I said if she wants to get baptised and he truly believes that Jesus is his Lord and Saviour he can. What church she chooses to be baptised in is her choice.

No, in the Catholic Church water baptism is not complex, we baptise babies, nothing complex there. If people come to the faith later in life they attend RCIA which all churches have in some form for newcomers I'm sure. The reason I have not advised the OP of this is because I am not here to prosletyse, if she came to the Catholic Forum the advice given would be different.

It is up to her to discern, we are all responsible for our own salvation.

 

[Radagast]

... If people come to the faith later in life they attend RCIA which all churches have in some form for newcomers I'm sure...

Indeed, and all those church-specific processes will require adherence to specific church beliefs (to clarify: I was talking about baptism of adults).

In terms of the OP"s question ("no church ... meshes with my personal belief system" but wishing to be baptised), I would think that the official Catholic answer would be "not until you become Catholic." Or am I wrong?