Help - Christmas!!

[Rachel Rachel]

How do you all "pass" on Christmas without totally alienating your families?
My daughter and son-in-law are new Christians and I can see the amazing difference it's made in them. My daughter has never been sweeter and more loving. The Holy Spirit shines in them both! But this all occurs at a time when I feel strongly convicted that Christmas is syncretism and I'd rather back away from it and not partake.
Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[BeStill&Know]

How do you all "pass" on Christmas without totally alienating your families?
My daughter and son-in-law are new Christians and I can see the amazing difference it's made in them. My daughter has never been sweeter and more loving. The Holy Spirit shines in them both! But this all occurs at a time when I feel strongly convicted that Christmas is syncretism and I'd rather back away from it and not partake.
Any advice would be appreciated.

Well IMHO your right... The majority of true followers or mature disciples however (I hope) focus this celebration on the birth of their Savior and not the other trappings. However, what is against G-d's Spirit to fellowship lovingly in union with your lovely family, whom G-d has blessed you with. Not all of us have been blessed with a lovely family or any family at all. If you know the Lord, by His Word, what is He asking you to do??? In great Love

 

[Rachel Rachel]

Well IMHO your right... The majority of true followers or mature disciples however (I hope) focus this celebration on the birth of their Savior and not the other trappings. However, what is against G-d's Spirit to fellowship lovingly in union with your lovely family, whom G-d has blessed you with. Not all of us have been blessed with a lovely family or any family at all. If you know the Lord, by His Word, what is He asking you to do??? In great Love

Thank you for your reply, however, I'd certainly disagree. Most blend the celebration on the birth of their Savior and the other trappings. This is syncretism and forbidden by the LORD.

 

[visionary]

Did Yeshua focus on the Roman celebrations that were going on in Israel? Did He mention any difficulties with halachas unless cornered? Some how He moved in and out of society untouched by the traditions that would make His faith void.

We are to lead by example and without compromise. Wise as serpents and as innocent as doves we are to shine our lights. I think if Messianic Judaism as a collective body of believers came together for more celebration of His birth during the right season, during the feast of tabernacles, with song, dance, celebration and story telling, while inviting the world to come witness this truth, the lies would stand in contrast and fail to hold a candle to the truth.

The same goes with Passover. Think how many people have come to the truth because of the presentations we have done in homes, churches, and synagogues.

 

[Rachel Rachel]

Did Yeshua focus on the Roman celebrations that were going on in Israel? Did He mention any difficulties with halachas unless cornered? Some how He moved in and out of society untouched by the traditions that would make His faith void.

We are to lead by example and without compromise. Wise as serpents and as innocent as doves we are to shine our lights. I think if Messianic Judaism as a collective body of believers came together for more celebration of His birth during the right season, during the feast of tabernacles, with song, dance, celebration and story telling, while inviting the world to come witness this truth, the lies would stand in contrast and fail to hold a candle to the truth.

The same goes with Passover. Think how many people have come to the truth because of the presentations we have done in homes, churches, and synagogues.

Very true. I've had the same thought.

 

[Hoshiyya]

"The Holy Spirit shines in them both!"

Christians, Mormons, Muslims, Buddhists and Atheists are all able to "shine" at times, and that's great, but it's not an indication of doctrinal truth on their part, whatsoever. Mormons are usually more Christian (ie. more polite) than most Christians, but their doctrine is even more corrupt than Christianity.

When someone wishes me merry Christmas I say things like "and the same to you" or "have a happy holiday". No big enigma figuring out what so say.

A merit of having non-Christians (eg Jews or Muslims) in the workplace is that it establishes an environment where it is clear not everyone celebrates Christmas. It influences employers and employees to not impose the Christmas holiday on everyone.

 

[visionary]

Baby steps.... They do shine forth in faith, fed milk, and growing in faith. ... May they never lose their first love as they learn more from the mustard seeds of faith that you plant in their hearts.

 

[Truthfrees]

How do you all "pass" on Christmas without totally alienating your families?
My daughter and son-in-law are new Christians and I can see the amazing difference it's made in them. My daughter has never been sweeter and more loving. The Holy Spirit shines in them both! But this all occurs at a time when I feel strongly convicted that Christmas is syncretism and I'd rather back away from it and not partake.
Any advice would be appreciated.

I at first tried to explain the origins of Christmas and that didn't really go anywhere.

So I just tell everyone I'm spending the day in Bible reading and conversation with the Lord, and they all agree this is a better way to spend the day.

That's how I get out of Christmas graciously AND end up having a wonderful time with the Lord.

 

[visionary]

You can always give them a biblical bible study on when Yeshua was born. http://biblelight.net/sukkoth.htm

 

[The Lone Ranger]

http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/Christmas_TheRealStory.htm
How Did Christmas Come to Be Celebrated on December 25?

Roman pagans first introduced the holiday of Saturnalia, a week long period of lawlessness celebrated between December 17-25. During this period, Roman courts were closed, and Roman law dictated that no one could be punished for damaging property or injuring people during the weeklong celebration. The festival began when Roman authorities chose “an enemy of the Roman people” to represent the “Lord of Misrule.” Each Roman community selected a victim whom they forced to indulge in food and other physical pleasures throughout the week. At the festival’s conclusion, December 25th, Roman authorities believed they were destroying the forces of darkness by brutally murdering this innocent man or woman.

Would God be happy celebrating HIS Birthday on a horrible day as such? Is that the correct way to say "Happy Birthday"? When I think about the innocent person murdered, I think what a slap in the face it is, considering Christ did not do as this "innocent person" did. Christ was unblemished, and sinless.

 

[visionary]

In reading an article that gave the argument that all things must remain in their sequence and thus Yeshua can not be born in the fall feasts to fulfill the spring feasts. To go with that point of view the article went on to say that ....

Jewish families traveled to Jerusalem to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.

“He was born in Bethlehem not Jerusalem. It would have caused revolution to require travel (for the census) at a time when Jews were supposed to be in Jerusalem,” Cahn said. http://www.wnd.com/2014/11/clue-to-christs-birth-date-revealed/

And here is the problem I have with it. The Sukkot presentation has a nice easy linear with the events of Zach's work schedule, John the Baptist's birth, and then Yeshua's birth.

As far as the idea that all must be spring time feasts for spring time fulfillment when it comes to His birth, is not necessary other than the agreement that He would be born on the appointed feast time frame. occur in the Spring including His birth. Would you please show me how Zach's work schedule would fit?

 

[pat34lee]

In reading an article that gave the argument that all things must remain in their sequence and thus Yeshua can not be born in the fall feasts to fulfill the spring feasts. To go with that point of view the article went on to say that ....
And here is the problem I have with it. The Sukkot presentation has a nice easy linear with the events of Zach's work schedule, John the Baptist's birth, and then Yeshua's birth.

As far as the idea that all must be spring time feasts for spring time fulfillment when it comes to His birth, is not necessary other than the agreement that He would be born on the appointed feast time frame. occur in the Spring including His birth. Would you please show me how Zach's work schedule would fit?

Easily. There are two courses of priests, 6 months apart.
If Zach served in the fall, then he served in spring.
Lambs are born in spring.

 

[visionary]

Easily. There are two courses of priests, 6 months apart.
If Zach served in the fall, then he served in spring.
Lambs are born in spring.

Which time of his temple service would add up to be month to make the birth of Yeshua at Passover or Nisan 1? IN other words be more precise, given any particular year in which there is his service, impregnating his wife, and Mary coming to visit to the birth of Yeshua.

 

[Open Heart]

How do you all "pass" on Christmas without totally alienating your families?

I don't "pass on Christmas." It celebrates the Nativity of Moshiach. What a lovely thing to do. I make a big deal of it, though I tend to spend very little money.

Remember that one of the kinds of MJ's recognized in here are those of us who are MJ but remain in the churches, and we do the stuff our churches do. I'm not going to push Christmas on you, and I hope you won't push anti-Christmas on me. (Trust me I've already read all your "evidence" anyhow.)

 

[BukiRob]

How do you all "pass" on Christmas without totally alienating your families?
My daughter and son-in-law are new Christians and I can see the amazing difference it's made in them. My daughter has never been sweeter and more loving. The Holy Spirit shines in them both! But this all occurs at a time when I feel strongly convicted that Christmas is syncretism and I'd rather back away from it and not partake.
Any advice would be appreciated.

Focus on Messiah and Love them...I wouldnt make a big deal over it personally. You dont have to have a tree etc in your home but that doesnt mean you cant love them and celebrate the holiday with your family and your focus is on messiah.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

You mean today? ;-)

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Easily. There are two courses of priests, 6 months apart.
If Zach served in the fall, then he served in spring.
Lambs are born in spring.

All courses served on the 3 feasts of Passover, Shavuot and Sukkot

 

[pat34lee]

Which time of his temple service would add up to be month to make the birth of Yeshua at Passover or Nisan 1? IN other words be more precise, given any particular year in which there is his service, impregnating his wife, and Mary coming to visit to the birth of Yeshua.

I'm not sure when the second round went, but about 6 months
after the first, given that they all served three times together.

The following link is trying to prove a Sukkot birth, but have to
admit the following:

"Of course, this argumentation does not lead to an exact dating of Jesus' birthday. We need to consider even two more ambiguities:

The priestly division of Abijah including Zechariah had to serve in the temple a second time around six month later in the year. This boils down to a second possibility for Jesus' birthday approximately six month later during the month of Nissan, perhaps in the time of the Passover feast.
If a leap year lies in the period of the events mentioned above, which means the respective year would contain a thirteens month of Adar, Jesus' birth would be one month earlier. "
http://www.luziusschneider.com/Papers/JesusDateOfBirth.htm

So, sometime in Adar or Nissan is likely, and I just find it more
fitting that the Lamb of God was born at the same time as the
lambs in Israel.

 

[danny ski]

Send a nice Happy Holiday card, greet people with a Merry Christmas and move on. I get Happy Hanukkah cards from a couple of Christians. Easy. Civilized gestures and friendly words need not to be about anything but that.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

I'm not sure when the second round went, but about 6 months
after the first, given that they all served three times together.

The following link is trying to prove a Sukkot birth, but have to
admit the following:

"Of course, this argumentation does not lead to an exact dating of Jesus' birthday. We need to consider even two more ambiguities:

The priestly division of Abijah including Zechariah had to serve in the temple a second time around six month later in the year. This boils down to a second possibility for Jesus' birthday approximately six month later during the month of Nissan, perhaps in the time of the Passover feast.
If a leap year lies in the period of the events mentioned above, which means the respective year would contain a thirteens month of Adar, Jesus' birth would be one month earlier. "
http://www.luziusschneider.com/Papers/JesusDateOfBirth.htm

So, sometime in Adar or Nissan is likely, and I just find it more
fitting that the Lamb of God was born at the same time as the
lambs in Israel.

Abiyah also served the 3 feasts so we need to look to any fulfillments. We expected Eliyahu HaNavi at Passover every year, yes? Likely that is when John the Baptist was born. Look to the Gospel of John..."The Word was made flesh"...He "Tabernacled among us" (skenoo in Greek). So if John was born at Passover then Yeshua was born in October, likely at Sukkot...and was brought into the Covenant through Brit Milah on the 8th day. Yeshua was likely Transfigured during Sukkot (Matthew 17:3-5). By the way, if you ever see an Orthodox Icon of the birth of Yeshua, there is always a hole at the top if the cave where the star shines through...a natural Sukkah